TAA aircraft with mixed stuff

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Scott MacKie

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Trying to determine if a mx of avionics is TAA legit. Garman 355, two AV Avionix AV-30's, two axis autopilot can couple.

List somewhere? Call an avionix shop? Contact individual manufacturers?

Thanks
Scott
 
The Garmin 355 is in the enter stack along with another Garmin com radio. Two UV Avionics AV-30's centered in the 6-pack.
 
If it has the equipment listed in 61.129(j), it's a TAA. If not, it isn't. It doesn't matter if the manufacturers match.

Technically advanced airplane. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a technically advanced airplane must be equipped with an electronically advanced avionics system that includes the following installed components:

(1) An electronic Primary Flight Display (PFD) that includes, at a minimum, an airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator;

(2) An electronic Multifunction Display (MFD) that includes, at a minimum, a moving map using Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation with the aircraft position displayed;

(3) A two axis autopilot integrated with the navigation and heading guidance system; and

(4) The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible.
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Looks taa to me

-SGOTI
 
The only question to me would be if the AV-30s qualify as "An electronic Primary Flight Display (PFD) that includes, at a minimum, an airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator;" I'm not sure how to interpret this part. I know the AV-30 has all of this displayed but does it all need to be "primary" information?
 
AlphaMike's comments would echo mine. The AV30 does display airspeed, turn coordinator, attitude, altimeter and heading, if you have two of them. I don't know if the vertical speed is on there, although it does say it has vertical trend. I don't see anything that says these need to be primary, just that they need to be displayed on a PFD. The AV30 is primary for some things, but so is the G5 and so is the Aspen, but not for everything listed. My understanding is that if they are displayed, that is what the rule says.

The GNC355 would qualify as the MFD.

A two axis auto pilot that has a heading/track select and GPS guidance should cover that.
 
I have 2 G5, IFD 540, S TEC 50 with alt hold.
I have asked many people including DPE, no one has a definite answer.

So for you, probably gonna get a different answers when you ask.
 
Can someone remind me why it matters whether a plane is TAA or not. It must matter since 'they' have defined it. Is there an endorsement or something to go with that?
 
exncsurfer said:
Can someone remind me why it matters whether a plane is TAA or not. It must matter since 'they' have defined it. Is there an endorsement or something to go with that?
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If you want to get a commercial license it counts towards required time. I believe it’s 10 hours in a complex aircraft or a TAA aircraft.
 
Scott MacKie said:
The Garmin 355 is in the enter stack along with another Garmin com radio. Two UV Avionics AV-30's centered in the 6-pack.
Click to expand...

FAR 61.129(f) defines a technically advanced aircraft, as follows:

(j) Technically advanced airplane. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, a technically advanced airplane must be equipped with an electronically advanced avionics system that includes the following installed components:

(1) An electronic Primary Flight Display (PFD) that includes, at a minimum, an airspeed indicator, turn coordinator, attitude indicator, heading indicator, altimeter, and vertical speed indicator;

(2) An electronic Multifunction Display (MFD) that includes, at a minimum, a moving map using Global Positioning System (GPS) navigation with the aircraft position displayed;

(3) A two axis autopilot integrated with the navigation and heading guidance system; and

(4) The display elements described in paragraphs (j)(1) and (2) of this section must be continuously visible.

Is the moving map visible while selecting a new route or changing other functions?
 
Clip4 said:
FAR 61.129(f)

Is the moving map visible while selecting a new route or changing other functions?
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I’m not sure that’s what is meant by “must be continuously visible “. If it is then a full G1000 system would not be a TAA either. You can change the display on a G1000 to not shown the moving maps if you want.
 
AlphaMike said:
I’m not sure that’s what is meant by “must be continuously visible “. If it is then a full G1000 system would not be a TAA either. You can change the display on a G1000 to not shown the moving maps if you want.
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But do any normal IFR operations require you to not display the map?
 
MauleSkinner said:
That’s the way I’d interpret it. Otherwise there would be no TAA aircraft.
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I honestly don’t know how to interpret it. My local DPE believes a GTN 750, G5’s and a 2 axis autopilot is TAA. To me it’s very vaguely written and allows a lot of room for “interpretation “.
 
AlphaMike said:
I honestly don’t know how to interpret it. My local DPE believes a GTN 750, G5’s and a 2 axis autopilot is TAA. To me it’s very vaguely written and allows a lot of room for “interpretation “.
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I haven’t worked with any of that equipment, so I honestly don’t know what it looks like or how it acts. But if the DPE accepts it, there’s not much more to worry about unless the FAA disagrees AND somehow it comes to their attention. ;)
 
AlphaMike said:
I’m not sure that’s what is meant by “must be continuously visible “. If it is then a full G1000 system would not be a TAA either. You can change the display on a G1000 to not shown the moving maps if you want.
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Meaning the PFD and MFD can't be alternate displays on the same device.
 
IIRC, G5 can be configured to display all the primary instruments, therefore qualifies as PFD under j1. GTN750 can display MFD, therefore qualifies under j2.
 
Lindberg said:
Meaning the PFD and MFD can't be alternate displays on the same device.
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Ahhhh that makes total sense! Not to question you but how do you know that? That’s definitely the best and most realistic answer I’ve heard.
 
AlphaMike said:
Okay…. So still there’s no FAA regulation decoder ring... For a minute there I thought you must have found one.
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nope, that’s why if it specifically isn’t written a certain way. I would go with the OP having a TAA.
 
AlphaMike said:
Okay…. So still there’s no FAA regulation decoder ring... For a minute there I thought you must have found one.
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No decoder ring, but the NPRM seems to confirm the logical interpretation:

The FAA agrees that the proposed definition of TAA would have been unintentionally restrictive and would have excluded some qualifying aircraft unnecessarily with its use of the phrase “independent additional.” The proposed requirement for an MFD to be an independent additional piece of equipment was intended to ensure that the minimum display elements are visible at all times. The FAA is not opposed to an aircraft having one display or piece of hardware that meets the overall definition requirements of § 61.129(j). The FAA is therefore removing the phrase “independent additional” from the proposed language to allow a single piece of equipment or single display to satisfy the requirement for both a PFD and MFD. However, to ensure that both displays are visible at the same time, the FAA is requiring the display elements for both the PFD and MFD (paragraphs (j)(1) and (2)) to be continuously visible.
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Lindberg said:
No decoder ring, but the NPRM seems to confirm the logical interpretation:
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That’s some of the best regulatory research I’ve seen. Good on you.
 
AlphaMike said:
I’m not sure that’s what is meant by “must be continuously visible “. If it is then a full G1000 system would not be a TAA either. You can change the display on a G1000 to not shown the moving maps if you want.
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In my view most RNAVs don’t qualify because you have to defeat the multi function display to enter data.
 
Clip4 said:
In my view most RNAVs don’t qualify because you have to defeat the multi function display to enter data.
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In my view, that’s a terrible way to view it. It’s still a mfd. you can “defeat” any mfd by turning off the power. That doesn’t mean it’s not an mfd.
 
I have flown with Garmin and other RNAVs with map displays since they were released. Not once did I ever consider one an MFD.

Nor have ever considered an old stand alone analogue 2 axis autopilot with GPSS added as technologically advanced.
 
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Clip4 said:
I have flown with Garmin and other RNAVs with map displays since they were released. Not once did I ever consider one an MFD.

Nor have ever considered an old stand alone analogue 2 axis autopilot with GPSS added as technologically advanced.
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I think you are missing the point of the requirement.
 
Salty said:
I think you are missing the point of the requirement.
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The point of the requirement is require experience in complex aircraft - either mechanically complex or electronically complex, The aircraft used as an example is not electronically complex.
 
Clip4 said:
The point of the requirement is require experience in complex aircraft - either mechanically complex or electronically complex, The aircraft used as an example is not electronically complex.
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What is more challenging about using a digital autopilot compared to an analog autopilot? Again, I think you are missing the point of the requirement.
 
Clip4 said:
The point of the requirement is require experience in complex aircraft - either mechanically complex or electronically complex, The aircraft used as an example is not electronically complex.
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The point of the requirement is to require experience in an airplane which meets the definition of "complex" or the definition of "TAA." Either the combination does or it doesn't.
 
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If moving map is all that is required install one of these in front of the right seat. It is multifunction with a moving map. upload_2021-8-20_10-46-15.png
 
The iPad is a portable, and as such, no matter how it is mounted, is not an “installed” component.
 
I know it doesn’t matter much but Garmin refers to the GTN650 and 750 as MFDs.
 
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