T210...Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly

R

robin ardoin

Cleared for Takeoff
PoA Supporter
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
1,475
Location
Lafayette, LA
Display Name
Display name:
Robard
In my search for a piston single with increased speed and hauling capacity/ease of loading over my 182-S, I keep coming back to a later model C210. I would love to find a properly maintained N/R model with a NA IO-550 conversion. I have been asking questions and reading all I can on a Cessna specific forum and am interested in owners, current and past, as well as mechanic's experience in maintaining these beasts. I would engage on of two C210 gurus to do and extensive prebuy if I decide to go that route. One owner that has flown his M model for 20+ years graciously offered to fly to my location to see how my gear would load in his 210 and also allow me to left seat it for a flight. I'll do that Sunday and pick his brain. I'll also drag a fellow 182 pilot with me that is 210 'curious'. He would make a great partner in one even if he is not aware of that yet...hehe... ;)

Give me the scoop folks.

Edit- one other driver is ease of entry. Currently, my aged father travels with me and will need to avoid crawling over a wing. A Malibu/Mirage wouldn't work either as he is a non-current pilot that would not like being in the back. A A36 may fit the bill for weight hauling but CG with fuel burn off/ bulky heavy gear and 2-3 people might be a stretch.
 
Are some/all 210s one door on the passenger side? If so, your dad may need to sit pilot side if you have to help him in, then you get in and fly right seat.

In my 182, even though my folks are still mobile, I do help them in to make sure no ankles or shins get skinned, heads get bonked, missteps/falls, or grabbing the wrong interior part. I have them step on a sturdy platform the size of a milk crate rather than just the gear-leg step. I would have a few extra worries if I had to get in first (doable, not ideal).
 
Older 206/P210 has one door on the pilot’s side. The non-pressurized 210 has two doors but no rear cargo doors like a 206 (my fixed gear contender). I am told that the 210 vs 182/206 is easier to enter/exit due to the lack of wing struts…at least in the models I would consider.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Are some/all 210s one door on the passenger side? If so, your dad may need to sit pilot side if you have to help him in, then you get in and fly right seat.

In my 182, even though my folks are still mobile, I do help them in to make sure no ankles or shins get skinned, heads get bonked, missteps/falls, or grabbing the wrong interior part. I have them step on a sturdy platform the size of a milk crate rather than just the gear-leg step. I would have a few extra worries if I had to get in first (doable, not ideal).
Click to expand...
I fully understand. My father, who flies with me frequently, has a weak leg from spinal stenosis and the other leg can bend only minimally from a less than optimal result of a total knee replacement. I have him step up on a folding plastic stool to transition to the strut step, then onto a larger aluminum step ladder and slide arse first in to the right, then left seat, swiveling into position once his feet clear the door frame. He then slides back into the right seat. Quite a process but it works. The strut really is an impediment. You can see why climbing up on the wing then down into the seat is, as an Englishman would say, “right out”.
 
robin ardoin said:
I fully understand. My father, who flies with me frequently, has a weak leg from spinal stenosis and the other leg can bend only minimally from a less than optimal result of a total knee replacement. I have him step up on a folding plastic stool to transition to the strut step, then onto a larger aluminum step ladder and slide arse first in to the right, then left seat, swiveling into position once his feet clear the door frame. He then slides back into the right seat. Quite a process but it works. The strut really is an impediment. You can see why climbing up on the wing then down into the seat is, as an Englishman would say, “right out”.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry to hear that. I’m thankful to have been raised by 2 parents and that they are still here, when I think about other friends and family who did not/do not. But it’s tough watching them age. I hope you continue to enjoy your flights and find the best plane for the mission.
 
Yup, I’m grateful he can still travel with me. When I told him we were flying up to Wisconsin for our national championships this past summer he did not hesitate to join me. It was a long day up (much faster back south on the backside of a front) but he told what an amazing trip it was. That is why I will buy my next plane with him in mind even if he is only with us for another year. That is something I cannot put a price on and better than having the money in the market.
 
robin ardoin said:
In my search for a piston single with increased speed and hauling capacity/ease of loading over my 182-S,
Click to expand...
You mention more speed and hauling capacity, but most comments are about your father/passenger loading.

I have a 182P, and wife is "non tall" person who doesn't get in as easily as I do. Forgive if this is something you did years ago, but have you gotten a small foldable stool / step ladder?
 
robin ardoin said:
I am told that the 210 vs 182/206 is easier to enter/exit due to the lack of wing struts…at least in the models I would consider.
Click to expand...
Yup. But a lot harder to move around on the ground. Nothing but the towbar and prop. Struts are handy.

Make sure the gear system on any 210 you go after has been looked after. Like, thoroughly inspected annually, gear swings done, pressures checked, pivots and actuators checked for cracks. Those parts are obscenely expensive.
 
WDD said:
You mention more speed and hauling capacity, but most comments are about your father/passenger loading.

I have a 182P, and wife is "non tall" person who doesn't get in as easily as I do. Forgive if this is something you did years ago, but have you gotten a small foldable stool / step ladder?
Click to expand...
Yes, I have two different size stools that we use and a polyethylene sheet on the seat for him to slide in. :biggrin:
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
I love T210s performance. Absolutely incredible climb rate at altitude, speed, and useful load.
However, I opted for a 182, for several reasons (all important): cheaper to operate (annuals, insurance, engine reserve...), needs shorter runways, and ability to add BRS,
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
Poor cooling during climb and poor cylinder life, especially the cylinder over the turbo.
 
Not familiar with the 210, but have flown a 182-RG. My questions would be if the 210 gear is as weird as the 182s, if that's a big deal, and if it's a big deal for insurance. I have no idea if that is relevant for you at all, just tossing it out as I didn't see it mentioned.

Also, would like to point out that The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly actually holds up over time! Watched it again a couple of years ago, hadn't seen it since I was a kid, and it's a better movie than I remembered.
 
I was graciously given the opportunity to fly a well maintained M na model today. Perfect for my needs. I hope I can find a well sorted N or R model with a modern panel. If the price is right one with a less modern would work but I hate to be down for the avionics work and have to sort out a new AP install. Should have insurance quotes early this coming week using a representative N number/hull value.
 
Pics are eventually coming in this thread or a new one, right?
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
Pics are eventually coming in this thread or a new one, right?
Click to expand...
Well, hopefully. I’m patient and will wait until I find ‘that right one’….then, yes, pics will follow. I have my eyeballs on one in my neck of the woods with new paint, outstanding new panel, mid time engine and within my budget. Too good to be true, most likely. The owner of the plane I flew today knows the shop that has worked on it and will get the story. Who knows, there may not be a hidden negative back story but on a 40 year old plane, unlikely.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
See his post #


As I get older, I think more about pilot incapacitation (me) and what my passengers might have to contend with and feel the ensuing next minutes. Hmmm…
Click to expand...
What's that old joke. When it's my time to go, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my great uncle Bob. Not kicking and screaming like his passengers...........
 
robin ardoin said:
I was graciously given the opportunity to fly a well maintained M na model today. Perfect for my needs. I hope I can find a well sorted N or R model with a modern panel. If the price is right one with a less modern would work but I hate to be down for the avionics work and have to sort out a new AP install. Should have insurance quotes early this coming week using a representative N number/hull value.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I came to the conclusion that the only way to get the plane and panel I want is to get a good plane and install my panel. A good plane with my version of a good panel is a purple unicorn that I'd wait years to find - if ever. And if I did eventually find it it, the time spent waiting is the time I could have been flying.
 
Last edited:
The 210 is a great plane. I would definitely get one of the slightly later models (N model). The R is a very rare beast - way overpriced for what it is, along with even more difficulty in finding parts for it. It will pretty much fly what it will carry. It was our next step up a few years ago from our 182.

The IO550 is a good upgrade if you get it. Its an expensive upgrade if you have the TSIO-520 (about 100-110K is what I heard). But the 520 is a great engine as well. We had no issues with ours, and ours was a P. It will get to 400 (or close to it ) on hot days right at takeoff, but pretty much comes right down.

If you can - I would sign up (or buy the video) from Cessna Pilots Association that Paul New does once or twice a year. its a two day seminar or 7 hours+ video of going over EVERYTHING on the 210. He pretty much knows more about them than anyone else out there. If you do plan on purchasing one, I would see if you can get Paul to do the prebuy - not cheap, but he'll find everything there is on the plane. And I would just shadow him for the 2 days that he is doing the prebuy as he'll go over everything with you while he is doing it. Great guy and knowledgable. Also not sure where you are located, but his shop is in Jackson TN but the wait is a year long to get in for annual, so factor that in as well.

Lot of people are scared of the gear. We never had an issue with our gear. And if its maintained well, its pretty rock solid.
 
Anthem said:
Lot of people are scared of the gear. We never had an issue with our gear. And if its maintained well, its pretty rock solid.
Click to expand...
Unless the plane has been in storage for the last 40 years, the parts that caused the gear problems have usually been worked out.
 
Well, the market for M/N/R model 210'sis as nuts as the 172/182 market. Clapped out planes with great panels and reasonably maintained planes with original, or near original panels have unrealistic asking prices. I've seen a few well restored planes with great service records asking over $400K. Many questionable airframes with ragged out interiors, mid/high time engines, near end of service life props etc. in the low to mid $300's. Hopefully some off market planes come up (have a few people looking) that have realistic prices. If I could find a great paneled plane with a mid time engine or better engine, updated interior/paint, I would not be opposed to spending around $300K but insurance is balking on coverage more than $320 or so. I would still definitely be overpaying but I would have what I want and could live with that. Fortunately my fever is not too bad and I am happy with my 182 for the time being; I have the patience to wait on a good one at a fair price.
 
The CG-moves-aft-with-fuel-burn thing with the A36 is much exaggerated. From full fuel to empty, the CG moves less than 1" aft. The A36 has a wide CG envelope and is hard to load out of the envelope. Can't help with the climbing-over-the-wing thing, though.
 
When the only thing similar that any even as good sells for 900k new, the older airframes are priced accordingly. You may find the market correcting a little, but with interest rates heading back down - things might start perking up again.

I’m not surprised that a well maintained 210 is north of 300. 400 is few and far between. And then there are the silver eagles which are really priced up there. Right now the ceiling on the 210s are where the Rs are priced. So late model not an R is a notch below that - which essentially is 280-350. I doubt that window will slide for the next 5+ years and with how few GA planes are being built - it’s going to stay that way.
 
Anthem said:
When the only thing similar that any even as good sells for 900k new, the older airframes are priced accordingly. You may find the market correcting a little, but with interest rates heading back down - things might start perking up again.

I’m not surprised that a well maintained 210 is north of 300. 400 is few and far between. And then there are the silver eagles which are really priced up there. Right now the ceiling on the 210s are where the Rs are priced. So late model not an R is a notch below that - which essentially is 280-350. I doubt that window will slide for the next 5+ years and with how few GA planes are being built - it’s going to stay that way.
Click to expand...
I gave your post a thumbs down because that is the closest to a “that’s depressing” emoji as I could find. LOL
My problem is the several pilots that fly 210’s that I’ve consulted all consider the current market planes overpriced. But their comparison is to what they paid 15-20 years ago. I certainly understand that, relative to cost of a ‘2024’ 210, the completely revamped ones are a bargain. I approach this with a different perspective to those pilots in reference and the plane and price I pay may be considered overpaying. However, at 61 years of age I sure ain’t getting younger and only have so many more years to fly a high performance plane.
 
Whether you like it or don’t like it - that’s reality. Look at the only planes that have that performance profile - really it’s only competition is the venerable a36. But it beats the a36 in baggage, better performance and fly ability. The a36 wins on longevity and overall a better build. The modern day cirrus - performance is close as well and you get more modern but tied in to their avionics and ecosystem. So that defines that marketplace.

But using other people’s opinions of the marketplace just because they bought it at some price x number of years ago is fools gold. It’s not just 172/182 (those are driven by consistent school demand and replacement cost at current valuations ). That’s like saying - damn I wish I had bought more gold at $600/oz or bitcoin it was $200. The market has moved based on the demand present. Even if the demand changes a bit - the market has moved based on replacement costs, market availability and all sorts of other factors. Just take a look at that calling the top thread that’s been going on for years. They’ve been calling the top every single time and have still been wrong.
 
The thumbs down was a joke; I’m in complete agreement and understanding of your observations. :)
The 210 is the only piston plane that fits my travel needs and it fits them quite well. If Cessna still made them today the price would be well north of a 206.
 
robin ardoin said:
The thumbs down was a joke; I’m in complete agreement and understanding of your observations. :)
The 210 is the only piston plane that fits my travel needs and it fits them quite well. If Cessna still made them today the price would be well north of a 206.
Click to expand...
Haha, got it. I saw the lol and thought you were half joking.. . . not realizing it was all. . . lol

But I will say this. If the 210 fits your requirements, its a great plane to own. Its not that expensive compared to what you are getting in terms of maintenance and upkeep. Everyone seems to be scared of the gear, but really - its quite simple and works realiably. Its more the visual skinny goose leg look of how it operates that seems to scares people. But in the years I had my P210, it never failed. I never had to hand jack it down, didnt have any failed doors (and didnt remove the door either, which Paul New recommends to never do) or failed microswitches or anything else.

If you're serious about a 210, I would pay and get the Cessna Pilots Association modern 210 seminar. Its expensive (600 I think), but its 7 or 8 hours of Paul going over everything about the 210. it helps to know before you are buying and what to look out for as well as your own benefit. At the same time, I wouldnt get it if you are just looking as it is $600 or something. But when I was there, I know that several owners also paid for their mechanics to be there. They will learn just as much as you if they attend. though I never did that.
 
I plan on getting the online course since the next in person event is yet to be scheduled (online is $600 for member/ $1200 in person). I would like to keep my budget in the $325K or below so I think, if I am patient and keep current with contacts who can find an off market plane, I should find something to my liking. I appreciate your insight @Anthem .
 
talk to Dan Howard as well. he probably has more 210's listed than anyone else in the marketplace. Yes, he is a broker and sales person, but a pretty straight shooter. You can always make an offer.

And to be fair - you are in the right price bracket. $320 is right in the middle of the T210 market. There are some in the high 2's and some in the low 4's (that is the ceiling until you get to an R) - so anywhere around $320 to 350 is about where I would be if I was buying.
 
So I think I found the perfect 210 for me. 1979 N model with the Atlantic Aero IO-550P STC with an excellent service record. Needs new avionics but that will come. Offer accepted and I will fly it next weekend. I hope to get John Efinger to do the prebuy and annual if all works out. Thanks for the input folks. Pics once I take possession. Another 182-S on the market soon, I hope ;) .
 
Congratulations, hope it comes together for you!
If you can't get the plane to John for the prebuy (and pretty sure he's no longer doing annuals), try to get with Paul New on it.
 
Highflier said:
Congratulations, hope it comes together for you!
If you can't get the plane to John for the prebuy (and pretty sure he's no longer doing annuals), try to get with Paul New on it.
Click to expand...
Paul did the prebuy for the second owner (who lost his medical recently and why he is selling) in late 2022. I spoke to John and he is unlikely to be able to get to a PB for 3 or more weeks. The seller appears hesitant to wait that long so I am looking for other options around central TX. You are correct in that Efinger is no longer taking on new aircraft for annuals; he is winding down for retirement. I’m open to suggestions. Any word on Wingfield?
 
If you were going to have the pre buy done by the same guy and it was done 2 years ago, assuming you could get the “report”, I’d just send it. Buy without a pre-buy. Or anyone could do the pre-buy.

Damage and ground running or sitting corrosion are the main factors that could have occurred over the last 2 years. I wouldn’t think it’d take a 210 specialist to find that stuff.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
If you were going to have the pre buy done by the same guy and it was done 2 years ago, assuming you could get the “report”, I’d just send it. Buy without a pre-buy. Or anyone could do the pre-buy.

Damage and ground running or sitting corrosion are the main factors that could have occurred over the last 2 years. I wouldn’t think it’d take a 210 specialist to find that stuff.
Click to expand...
My thoughts also since the maintenance records since that recent prebuy are excellent and it is located in the southwest hill country of Texas; corrosion concerns are minimized. I still will definitely get AP to at least follow the CPA prebuy checklist that New agrees with.
 
Try to contact Scott Hutchinson, I believe he’s in the Houston area.
He does a lot of 210 transition training.
Good chance he may know some other contacts.
 
You have John jay wingfield in Texas. But if the seller is amenable to the prebuy information done by Paul New 2 years ago to be released, I think your risks are significantly mitigated with any abbreviated prebuy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top