Suicidal Ideation

hopeful2122 said:
I totally understand the enhanced discretion, but I also believe that I should be able to prove (through expensive testing, regular psychiatrist visits, and continual monitoring) that I am not a threat. I have no issue in being more closely monitored and having to spend more money. I just think there should be a chance. I know I’m preaching to people that can’t do anything about it here, however I also want to point out that prior mental illness is not a death sentence nor are people with PAST suicidal ideations automatically going to hurt others. Discretion, testing, and enhanced monitoring are understandable.
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Best of luck. Don't let the "know it alls" here discourage you.
 
Even before GermanWings suicidal ideation was a problem (note that GermanWings was not the first airliner brought down by suicidal crew) and there were a few GA suicides that got on the radar as well. Long about 2000, I had a good friend, a flight instructor in a real hell of a marraige, actually attempt suicide. Spent a lot of time discussing with him what he would have to do to even get a third class back. It was daunting.
 
flyingron said:
there were a few GA suicides that got on the radar as well.
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Yup. One of the first instances I followed in the media was the Piper PA28 pilot from Georgetown, TX who chose to dive into the Austin IRS Office.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Yup. One of the first instances I followed in the media was the Piper PA28 pilot from Georgetown, TX who chose to dive into the Austin Post Office.
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I’m just generally curious if these were seeking help or if they were flying without help/disclosing? I’m so sorry that these incidences occurred. I just find it so interesting that I never had any suicidal thoughts until while on the beta blockers and haven’t had any since getting off them.
 
hopeful2122 said:
I’m just generally curious if these were seeking help or if they were flying without help/disclosing? I’m so sorry that these incidences occurred. I just find it so interesting that I never had any suicidal thoughts until while on the beta blockers and haven’t had any since getting off them.
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Regarding the incident I mentioned.... I have zero knowledge of what treatments or aeromedical certification issues that particular pilot was doing or trying to obtain.

Here is the wiki article for the incident: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack

Regarding the inclusion of medications such as beta blockers.... I won't be commenting due to insufficient training and knowledge.
 
hopeful2122 said:
I just find it so interesting that I never had any suicidal thoughts until while on the beta blockers and haven’t had any since getting off them.
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Depression is listed as a common side effect of some beta blockers. That suggests the depression / suicidal ideation may have been caused by the drugs you were prescribed. This will factor into the forensic psychiatric evaluation, which hopefully you have started working on.
 
jstone said:
I have a very simple solution for you. When you go in for your medical examination just do not disclose that information. The FaA will never find out. I know multiple people who have similar if not worse than yours that didn’t report something and are now flight instructors with first class medical and I would feel completely comfortable with them flying for an airline because they grew out of the issues they once had. Everyone that I know who has wanted to be honest and disclosed their problem that requires a special issuance has regretted it. The crap they put you thru, the waiting and the ridiculous amount of money this takes just simply isn’t worth it because you have the option of not reporting it. You’re also not even guaranteed the medical after jumping thru all the faa’s hoops so keep that in mind.
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And I know the consequences of doing what you suggest, and then getting found out.
 
Rgbeard said:
I didn’t necessarily intend it to be helpful to you.

I intended my comment to underline that people with suicidal ideations have no business carrying passengers for hire.

If the FAA never gives you a medical, they could be saving the lives of 100+ innocent passengers.
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It’s easy to cast stones from someone who’s never had to deal with such bureaucratic BS.

I’m in a similar boat as OP. However I work with firearms, I’ve got the opportunity every day, to off myself ect. But I’m still here, haven’t hurt anyone else. Why for god sakes would that all the sudden change while flying? I myself am not looking for a class 1 medical, but rather class 3. But get your head out of your ass sir, 1 out of 5 Americans have some form of mental illness. We know that the vast majority of people who attempt suicide and survive don’t attempt again.

If you don’t want people like me flying, then are you ok with us driving? Are you ok with us owning guns? Are you ok with us owning beer and gasoline because if someone wanted to do harm Molotov cocktails exist.

If your going to advocate that a blind person, or someone with dementia shouldn’t fly, that’s one thing. However if your ready to dismiss millions of Americans from depression to mild ADHD ect, then might as well crack open the straight jackets, because you’ve got one hell of a slippery slope.

Vs maybe, just maybe having a case by case basis instead of a blanket ban. No SI for ADHD, No SI for a suicide attempt in the last 10 years. Ect.
 
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ProjectInfinity1 said:
It’s easy to cast stones from someone who’s never had to deal with such bureaucratic BS.

I’m in a similar boat as OP. However I work with firearms, I’ve got the opportunity every day, to off myself ect. But I’m still here, haven’t hurt anyone else. Why for god sakes would that all the sudden change while flying? I myself am not looking for a class 1 medical, but rather class 3. But get your head out of your ass sir, 1 out of 5 Americans have some form of mental illness. We know that the vast majority of people who attempt suicide and survive don’t attempt again.

If you don’t want people like me flying, then are you ok with us driving? Are you ok with us owning guns? Are you ok with us owning beer and gasoline because if someone wanted to do harm Molotov cocktails exist.

If your going to advocate that a blind person, or someone with dementia shouldn’t fly, that’s one thing. However if your ready to dismiss millions of Americans from depression to mild ADHD ect, then might as well crack open the straight jackets, because you’ve got one hell of a slippery slope.

Vs maybe, just maybe having a case by case basis instead of a blanket ban. No SI for ADHD, No SI for a suicide attempt in the last 10 years. Ect.
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So, you have the opportunity to achieve a simple, measurable goal, and have demonstrated that you wish to do so, and yet fail. Maybe one day you'll choose to seriously achieve your goals. I hope no one else is around.

Yes, I think denying 1/5 Americans from a flight medical due to mental illness is a good starting point. With HIMS requirements to leap the barrier.

No, I don't want people such as you flying. I'm only okay with you driving because it's a life-necessity in most areas. I would be against you having a CDL or driving a bus full of passengers. As a broadbrush statement, I'm not okay with you owning assault weapons. We see the results of nutters every month or so on TV with the most recent active-shooters.

In your SI proposal, are you okay with a mental illness SI including a lifetime limitation such as: Class-3 only, limited to four seats, limited to less than 200hp or less?

Fortunately, I'm not the Emperor of Earth, and these are only my opinions. I'm also not a mental health professional. Nor do I portray one on TV.
 
I have no medical training, so this is my opinion as a fellow pilot. This is not specifically directed to the op since I don't know your situation enough from this forum .

The "fight or flight" response is what concerns me about pilots with this history . There may be emergency situations in the cockpit that mentally challenge even the best of us, and our passengers and people on the ground rely on us to keep our emotions focused. Will the pilot choose to fight, or mentally give-up when things get tough? If a person has been so overwhelmed by life enough to consider suicide, how will they handle a complex situation in flight? Even when the person claims they would never hurt anybody else, they are not thinking clearly because suicide hurts all their family and friends and leaves an emotional scar that lasts forever. I hope there is rehabilitation, but I am concerned about it.
 
hopeful2122 said:
The only thing I want to do is potentially get my first-class medical.
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The OP's situation is not unique and the path to the left seat is known. If you take it and succeed, great! If, on the other hand you are deemed "unfit for flight" then there are hundreds of other paths in life that can be as rewarding as flying. Jump through the FAA's hoops and take your chances. No guarantee, but I'm willing to bet that you'll be flying with at least with a 3rd class medical in 18 mos. Flying Cessnas and Pipers can be more fun than flying for a paycheck anyway (many professional pilots will concur.)
 
ProjectInfinity1 said:
Vs maybe, just maybe having a case by case basis instead of a blanket ban. No SI for ADHD, No SI for a suicide attempt in the last 10 years. Ect.
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If you can convince a senior HIMS AME based on an examination and history to attempt a submission, I believe they can submit for an SI. For example, if a person never actually had ADHD but was diagnosed. So in a sense it is on a case by case basis functionally. It will cost money and time though, and there are cases where the history or exam indicate a very low likelihood of success so probably not worth it to try.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
If you can convince a senior HIMS AME based on an examination and history to attempt a submission, I believe they can submit for an SI. For example, if a person never actually had ADHD but was diagnosed. So in a sense it is on a case by case basis functionally. It will cost money and time though, and there are cases where the history or exam indicate a very low likelihood of success so probably not worth it to try.
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Unfortunately I do have a diagnostic history of ADHD and Aspergers, however I have not being on ADHD medication for more than a two week trial, as it caused headaches/irritability. That was over 3 years ago.
 
Rgbeard said:
So, you have the opportunity to achieve a simple, measurable goal, and have demonstrated that you wish to do so, and yet fail. Maybe one day you'll choose to seriously achieve your goals. I hope no one else is around.

Yes, I think denying 1/5 Americans from a flight medical due to mental illness is a good starting point. With HIMS requirements to leap the barrier.

No, I don't want people such as you flying. I'm only okay with you driving because it's a life-necessity in most areas. I would be against you having a CDL or driving a bus full of passengers. As a broadbrush statement, I'm not okay with you owning assault weapons. We see the results of nutters every month or so on TV with the most recent active-shooters.

In your SI proposal, are you okay with a mental illness SI including a lifetime limitation such as: Class-3 only, limited to four seats, limited to less than 200hp or less?

Fortunately, I'm not the Emperor of Earth, and these are only my opinions. I'm also not a mental health professional. Nor do I portray one on TV.
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So, I shouldn’t be able to fly, shouldn’t be able to own most guns including the most popular rifle in America, shouldn’t be able to be a bus driver/trucker?

Anything else? Sounds like a second class citizen there. “Because freedom be scary yo”


I’d eventually want to get into micro jets, but have no desire for a class 1. However that doesn’t mean other people in similar situations should be barred...

This is the exact mentality that forces pilots underground. What other option are they given except to lie? Anyone ever consider that perhaps banning someone from a passion they’re willing to risk a felony over, is counter productive? Give people a reason to live rather than forcing them to. For some people that’s saving the rain forests, for others including myself it’s guns, flying, ect. The very thing you attempt to ban, only feeds into the depression.

I’ve seen it said often here, get heathy first then worry about flying. However depression sucks the joy out of most activities, and during treatment they attempt to latch onto anything that can start digging someone out of said emotional hole.

Your advocating treatment of a complex problem, with a one size fits all solution. In doing so, the FAA is baring thousands.

Germanwings was a Huge headline. However murder suicide is statistically rare, and 95% of those with mental illness will never hurt anyone, in fact they’re more likely to be the victim.

As you stated yourself, I also am glad your not emperor of earth.

P.S. “Assault weapons” is just a political term for scary looking semi autos.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...pilot-s-suicide-prompts-call-common-sense?amp
 
Rgbeard said:
Yes, I'm happy with you being "branded" for life, with a very difficult path to get it changed, and if changed, to limited capacities.

Hope I wasn't unclear.
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Are you just referring to Aviation or everything else I listed... Because that’s got to be one of the most unamerican thing I’ve ever heard...
 
kath said:
Sometimes people come here for advice.
Sometimes people come here with honest questions, looking for honest answers.
Sometimes people come to ask one thing, but find that what they really needed to learn about was something else.
Sometimes people have knowledge and life experience that the rest of us don't.
Sometimes people seek, and could use, encouragement and support.

No one comes here for, or deserves, to be called names for no reason.
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Thank you ma’am, it means more than you know.
 
ProjectInfinity1 said:
Unfortunately I do have a diagnostic history of ADHD and Aspergers, however I have not being on ADHD medication for more than a two week trial, as it caused headaches/irritability. That was over 3 years ago.
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Well if you want to really know the answer on the possibilities, best to consult with one of the senior HIMS AMEs about it. If they say you have a good shot with the history and testing, then you have a path forward, albeit probably an expensive and time consuming one.
 
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