Stupid stuff Mechanics find.

Banjo33 said:
Example would be the audible “tink, tink, tink “ of a wrench falling down into the engine bay. A thorough FOD check post MX action probably wouldn’t identify this loose gear.
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Seriously, who'd hear an audible tink tink tink and not retrieve it? I don't even think the airline guys would do that.
 
I know a fella that, on the first flight after his Cirrus was out of annual, had to land prior to his destination due to overheating. They removed the cowl and found the mechanic's heavy coat laying atop the engine.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Seriously, who'd hear an audible tink tink tink and not retrieve it? I don't even think the airline guys would do that.
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Unfortunately it (and much worse) happens a lot more often than it should, even with the requirement to ATAF after pulling off an aircraft. Regardless, that’s just a single example. Other examples are: broken piece of glass falling off an inspection mirror, retaining pin falling out of an adjustable wrench, retractable ball missing from a door pin, ID tag falling off a tool, tip of a pick or screw driver breaking off, rubber from a mallet chipping off, etc and the list goes on. I have provided comments for and signed THOUSANDS of broken/missing tool reports for items that were or were not recovered following a maintenance action.
 
To continue, I absolutely would fault and hold accountable a maintainer that lies about an ATAF or a CDI that pencil-whips an ATAF and have suspended dozens of quals for it. However, as Tom alluded, a CDI may be supervising half a dozen maintenance actions, without having eaten or taken a break in 8 hrs with 4 more to go on his/her shift, with one eye half closed from exhaustion, just to try to make a flight schedule designed to give the pilots one hour of their 10 for the month. They’re under a LOT of pressure to accomplish the mission. One seemingly insignificant piece of a tool can tank an entire flight schedule.
 
Banjo33 said:
Harriers. Common to all of them. In fact, I think those procedures are a CNAF requirement that would make it SOP for all of Naval Aviation, but would have to look at the pub to be sure.
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FOD walks are before every cycle on the carrier. I thought it was once a day at the beach, every morning at 7 at the places I’ve been.
 
GlennAB1 said:
We have a guy here, his job is FOD walk, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. He's always got a full bucket on his Monday.
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Who did he **** off to get that job?
 
ETres said:
I know a fella that, on the first flight after his Cirrus was out of annual, had to land prior to his destination due to overheating. They removed the cowl and found the mechanic's heavy coat laying atop the engine.
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Wow, you'd think the mechanic might've gotten a little cold at some point and wondered, "Where's my coat?"

I try to avoid the temptation to use the tops of the cylinders as a tool tray...too easy to miss something there.
 
SkyDog58 said:
I’m amazed pilots aren’t required to shadowbox their flight bags.

:D[/QUOTE
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Why? We get a new magazine every month anyway, you know, Popular Science, Home & Garden, Pl...uh Photography
 
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Banjo33 said:
To continue, I absolutely would fault and hold accountable a maintainer that lies about an ATAF or a CDI that pencil-whips an ATAF and have suspended dozens of quals for it. However, as Tom alluded, a CDI may be supervising half a dozen maintenance actions, without having eaten or taken a break in 8 hrs with 4 more to go on his/her shift, with one eye half closed from exhaustion, just to try to make a flight schedule designed to give the pilots one hour of their 10 for the month. They’re under a LOT of pressure to accomplish the mission.
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You all have human factors training there?
 
GlennAB1 said:
You all have human factors training there?
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Human factors screening monthly, but no training. Unfortunately, this is a service-wide (+) money problem, not just a “there” problem. Unrealistic flight-hour expectations requires increased readiness. Without proper funding, these young men and women pay for the brunt of it with their time at the cost of their health and family life.
 
One thing I always tell people who seem interested: if you want to know who the qual holders are in a maintenance department, look for the slovenly, usually over-weight maintainers. They get that way by skipping personal hygiene and PT and survive on McDonalds drive-thru. Most have meal cards that allow them to eat for free in pretty decent chow halls that they can’t use. It’s a travesty.
 
This thread reminds me of a project we did for a local hospital where we put RFID tags on all the surgical instruments. Among other features, a high power scanner at the exit of all the operating rooms could detect if an instrument were inadvertently left in a patient. We never commercialized it because we couldn’t get RFID tags to survive the autoclave that was used to sterilize them, but otherwise it worked well.

I wonder if this sort of approach would work in aviation?
 
Banjo33 said:
...I have provided comments for and signed THOUSANDS of broken/missing tool reports for items that were or were not recovered following a maintenance action.
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Thousands? Really? I'm going to greet that statement with more than a little bit of skepticism. Either you've spent 100 years as a maintenance officer or your unit absolutely sucks when it comes to tool accountability and/or said tools are wielded by knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. I served 10 years as a USAF jet engine mechanic. In those 10 years I can count on 1 and 1/2 hands how many broken/missing tool reports my units had to fill out.
 
Vince R said:
This thread reminds me of a project we did for a local hospital where we put RFID tags on all the surgical instruments. Among other features, a high power scanner at the exit of all the operating rooms could detect if an instrument were inadvertently left in a patient. We never commercialized it because we couldn’t get RFID tags to survive the autoclave that was used to sterilize them, but otherwise it worked well.

I wonder if this sort of approach would work in aviation?
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Skydrol would probably love them.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Thousands? Really? I'm going to greet that statement with more than a little bit of skepticism. Either you've spent 100 years as a maintenance officer or your unit absolutely sucks when it comes to tool accountability and/or said tools are wielded by knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. I served 10 years as a USAF jet engine mechanic. In those 10 years I can count on 1 and 1/2 hands how many broken/missing tool reports my units had to fill out.
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In my four years in the Air Force I filled out zero.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Thousands? Really? I'm going to greet that statement with more than a little bit of skepticism. Either you've spent 100 years as a maintenance officer or your unit absolutely sucks when it comes to tool accountability and/or said tools are wielded by knuckle-dragging Neanderthals. I served 10 years as a USAF jet engine mechanic. In those 10 years I can count on 1 and 1/2 hands how many broken/missing tool reports my units had to fill out.
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1 year as the Air Frames Officer, 6 months as the Quality Assuarance Officer, and 18 months as the Maintenance Officer...probably averaged 6 per day. We didn’t suck at tool accountability...if we did, I’d probably not have filled out near as much paperwork. Remember what qualifies as a broken tool: a chip of rubber missing from a rubber mallet, the tip of a screw driver missing, chip from the cutting edge of a pair of safety wire pliers, chip of glass from a broken inspection mirror or lens of a flashlight, missing battery from a flashlight (we serialized every single battery!), bearings that have fallen out of the cart wheels from a FOD vacuum, screw from a PEMA (think laptop that has Maintenance pubs on it), etc. Much less missing hand tools that required an investigation that may or may not have been found in the course of an investigation. It’s ALL documented. And it’s not the command that requires this nitnoid process, this is DIRECTED by the CNAF (Commander, Naval Air Forces). The Tool Control program is the most common program that drives a squadron off track during an inspection. I’ve undergone maybe 7 in those 3 years in the maintenance department.

Edit: Out of curiosity, I did the rough math. I’ve probably signed a thousand missing/broken tool reports.
 
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GlennAB1 said:
In my four years in the Air Force I filled out zero.
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Really? Yet your FOD Guy collects a bucket full of FOD on Monday’s and your airline mechs have:

GlennAB1 said:
huge taco wagons stuffed full of tools they've needed/accumulated over the years. There's no way they can shadow their box(s).
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but in 4 years in the Air Force you never filled out a broken or missing tool report? That’s not because your maintainers didn’t break or lose tools....lol.
 
Vince R said:
This thread reminds me of a project we did for a local hospital where we put RFID tags on all the surgical instruments. Among other features, a high power scanner at the exit of all the operating rooms could detect if an instrument were inadvertently left in a patient. We never commercialized it because we couldn’t get RFID tags to survive the autoclave that was used to sterilize them, but otherwise it worked well.

I wonder if this sort of approach would work in aviation?
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On my recent deployment, we had one of our jets FOD a motor at an Air Force base in a foreign country, so we had to send a rescue crew up to replace the engine. I had my Maintenance Control Supervisor hang out with his Air Force peer at the F-16 squadron stationed there to see if he could pick up some ideas/best practices. Among other things, he told me they had a WalMart style barcode system for the majority of tools they used...sounds similar to what you’re explaining. Although this doesn’t solve for the inspection requirement you have to ensure the tool itself is intact once returned to the tool box. Additionally, they had dispatch vans that had high-wear items, common special tools, etc that would bring those items out to the aircraft and issue/deissue as required. This solves for our guys having to come off a job, ATAF a toolbox, order a part, wait for the MALS to deliver it or send our own expediter across the flightline to MALS supply to retrieve the items, go back into work, ATAF another tool box, and then replace the item. We quickly realized we were operating on a completely different level from them, lol.
 
Banjo33 said:
Really? Yet your FOD Guy collects a bucket full of FOD on Monday’s and your airline mechs have:

but in 4 years in the Air Force you never filled out a broken or missing tool report? That’s not because your maintainers didn’t break or lose tools....lol.
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I enlisted in '76 and separated in '80. I never broke nor lost any tool while in the AF.

I've been employed by 4 airlines since '83, over 20 years with my current one.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I enlisted in '76 and separated in '80. I never broke nor lost any tool while in the AF.

I've been employed by 4 airlines since '83, over 20 years with my current one.
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My mistake, I thought you were implying your shop never had...

I had a few maintainers I wouldn’t trust with a pencil. They never broke or lost tools either. ;)
 
Banjo33 said:
My mistake, I thought you were implying your shop never had...

I had a few maintainers I wouldn’t trust with a pencil. They never broke or lost tools either. ;)
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Well, some people take college preparatory classes in high school, go to college, and end up in management, never touching a tool.

I took every industrial arts class my high school offered: Wood shop, metal shop, drafting, small engine mechanics, auto shop.

Ive always done all my own automotive maintenance, and fix just about anything and everything else.

I let an Air Force recruiter talk me into going into a specialty that the Air Force was having trouble retaining servicemen. I worked on F-4 and T-38 aircraft. There were times when I was it, the only troop in Avionics Instruments. I was selected for reenlistment.

I got my A&P while enrolled in an Associate Degree program at Columbus Technical Institute, (changed to Columbus State Community College in '87) I got offered my first A&P position at a time when jobs were scarce. I took it, with 10 semester hours left for thr Associates, never went back. It hasn't mattered.

After a year or so experience, and Gulfstream 1 school at Flight Safety, Savannah GA
I was once again, a one man show for almost a year. We operated a fleet of G-1 freighters and I turned all the aircraft, usually 7, at night, by myself, at the freight hub, and maintained a spare aircraft.

Probably the greatest compliment I've ever received was by a pilot back then, he told me I was a gold mine for the company.

In the airline aircraft inspection world, we have what we call "good finds" Ive had more than my share of them and am proud of the contribution to air safety that I perform.

I have been known to take tools out of mechanics hands and do tasks they are struggling with, myself. I'm not one of your rejects and I don't need your approval.
 
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GlennAB1 said:
Well, some people take college preparatory classes in high school, go to college, and end up in management, never touching a tool.

I took every industrial arts class my high school offered: Wood shop, metal shop, drafting, small engine mechanics, auto shop.

Ive always done all my own automotive maintenance, and fix just about anything and everything else.

I let an Air Force recruiter talk me into going into a specialty that the Air Force was having trouble retaining servicemen. I worken on F-4 and T-38 aircraft. There were times when I was it, the only troop in Avionics Instruments. I was selected for reenlistment.

I got my A&P while enrolled in an Associate Degree program at Columbus Technical Institute, (changed to Columbus State Community College in '87) I got offered my first A&P position at a time when jobs were scarce. I took it, with 10 semester hours left for thr Associates, never went back. It hasn't mattered.

After a year or so experience, and Gulfstream 1 school at Flight Safety, Savannah GA
I was once again, a one man show for almost a year. We operated a fleet of G-1 freighters and I turned all the aircraft, usually 7, at night, by myself, at the freight hub, and maintained a spare aircraft.

Probably the greatest compliment I've ever received was by a pilot back then, he told me I was a gold mine for the company.

In the airline aircraft inspection world, we have what we call "good finds" Ive had more than my share of them and am proud of the contribution to air safety that I perform.

I have been known to take tools out of mechanics hands and do tasks they are struggling with, myself. I'm not one of your rejects and I don't need your approval.
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gee Glenn....you sound like someone whom I should look up to. o_O
 
Inside of a propeller, 150 hrs TSO. Prop wouldn't cycle on the ground. Wonder why?
Overservice.JPG
 
Wow! I've only heard of this, never saw one filled up with grease in person. :eek:
 
common....this is what causes seals to blow out. I know of a couple mechanics who insist on removing a zerk and pumping #6 till is squirts out ....and they do this at each annual. :confused:

My thoughts....if it ain't leaking....let it be.
 
There is a gotcha out there.

Hartzell steel hub props (older King Airs) require you to pull one set grease fittings and pump grease through the others until you see grease purge. That is the recommended procedure and works very well.

Hartzell aluminum hub props (newer King Airs) require you to pull one set of grease fittings and pump 1 fluid ounce and then STOP. Grease might come out, maybe not. That is the recommended procedure and works very well.

The problem begins when someone uses the steel hub procedure on an aluminum hub prop. Grease pushes through the seals and fills the hub, much like the picture.

That is some very expensive grease!
 
My 182 customer had his 0-470- rebuilt and installed a new prop. It has no grease fittings.
 
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