Student Pilot has to sign a death disclosure on an intro flight?

Right. They can sue. They just might not be able to win. Anyone can sue, either pro se or with any lawyer who will take the case, possibly subject to Rule-11-type sanctions if the suit is found frivolous.
 
bflynn said:
If I'm dead, how the heck am I going to sue anyway?

On the other hand my wife can sue the pants off them. SHE didn't sign a thing and I can't sign away her right to sue. In fact, the paper saying that they won't be responsible could be presented as a negative in their court case. Did they EXPECT me to die in their airplane? Are their airplanes less safe than other airplanes? What kind of maintenance issues did they defer and for how long? Did they think their instructor wasn't that good? What kind of incidents have they had in the past?
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I can't speak for all states; just my own. When a person is killed by the negligence of another, by statute, the dead person's estate may bring a claim for wrongful death. The estate may recover various types of damages, as permitted by the statute depending upon what type of heirs remain, for the benefit of those heirs. But the estate, which would be the party plaintiff in such a suit (not the heirs; the heirs are just the beneficiaries), is absolutely bound by a validly written waiver of liability. So, yes, the waiver would preclude the bringing a wrongful death claim.

As do most states, my state also recognizes loss of consortium. However, that claim is described as "derivative," meaning that if the injured spouse's claim fails, so too does the consortium claim. Thus, if there is a waiver of the injured spouse's claim, that would cut off the consortium claim, too.

Where the waiver would not apply to a spouse's claim is where the non-signing spouse sustained personal injury herself. Unless she signed a waiver too, she could bring her own claim.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Don't forget to mention that in states where waivers are enforceable, many cases with a well-written one won't even get to a jury (not so sure about one that just says, "we are not responsible if you die" :D).
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Yep. That's where I have won such arguments-- on a motion for summary judgment under our T.R. Rule 56, which is very similar (though not identical) to Fed.R.Civ.Pro. 56.
 
PPC1052 said:
I can't speak for all states; just my own. When a person is killed by the negligence of another, by statute, the dead person's estate may bring a claim for wrongful death. The estate may recover various types of damages, as permitted by the statute depending upon what type of heirs remain, for the benefit of those heirs. But the estate, which would be the party plaintiff in such a suit (not the heirs; the heirs are just the beneficiaries), is absolutely bound by a validly written waiver of liability. So, yes, the waiver would preclude the bringing a wrongful death claim.

As do most states, my state also recognizes loss of consortium. However, that claim is described as "derivative," meaning that if the injured spouse's claim fails, so too does the consortium claim. Thus, if there is a waiver of the injured spouse's claim, that would cut off the consortium claim, too.

Where the waiver would not apply to a spouse's claim is where the non-signing spouse sustained personal injury herself. Unless she signed a waiver too, she could bring her own claim.
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Similar to the general rules on waivers in @bflynn's state.
 
When I did a tandem skydive jump not only did I have to sign a pretty onerous waiver, they made me watch a video by some goober who appears to be the principal in the parachute equipment company saying how I should expect to die or be painfully and permanently injured using his product.
 
midlifeflyer said:
"Ordinary" and "gross" negligence are legal jargon with definitions. For a mental aviation example picture, I'd say it's the difference between a bad landing on a normal approach and a bad landing while attempting an inverted approach in a 172 if the waiver was in connection with a typical introductory flight lesson.
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For what it's worth, there are many cases in my state which hold that we do not recognize various degrees of negligence. But, our Supreme Court has cracked that door open a little bit by giving a definition for gross negligence in the context of a claim against a utility that had immunity except for intentional acts or "gross negligence," under a statute that failed to give a definition of what "gross negligence" is. It has yet to be determined whether gross negligence is an actual separate tort claim, and if so, whether a waiver would apply or not.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
Similar to the general rules on waivers in @bflynn's state.
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And I forgot to add that under the common law (the body of law created by judges), your death cuts off the claim. So, absent the statutory right to bring the claim, there would be no write to bring a claim for your death. That is why wrongful death actions (at least in my state) are statutory creations (enacted by the state legislature), unlike pretty much every other tort claim which is defined by common law (created by judges). I suspect this is true in many states, but I can't tell you which ones.
 
You don't have to sign it. You only have to sign it if you want to fly in their airplane.
 
coloradobluesky said:
You don't have to sign it. You only have to sign it if you want to fly in their airplane.
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This. I don't see why some people (including so many judges) think that's so horrible. If a recovery in the event of injury or death is your only concern, why not just get your own insurance, sign the waiver and go fly? Of course you won't get pain and suffering payments, but you don't have to hire an attorney and experts to try to prove a liability claim in order to get paid.

The problem comes when these judges are presented with sad facts, and they are presented with a poor family that left their loved ones. All they see is the loss of the family before them. But they can't see all of the unintended consequences that come when they shift the risk of loss back. Then it drives prices up, rewards people for their poor planning, and kills industries.
 
If you don't want to sign it, politely refuse. They might rent the plane to you anyway.

Dont take it personally, and don't let THEM take it personally. Inform them that you are NOT required anything you don't want to or don't understand the consequences of. Or perhaps just tell them it is "your policy" not to sign such documents. Or that your lawyer will have to look it over. Ask to talk to the manager and ask him to explain the document to you.
 
Modify it to your liking, cross out and initial changes, sign it. Usually the recipient does not review it and accepts it. Then when the time comes the modifications will be there. Best advice an attorney gave me was if I wanted something from them, I should be willing to perform in the same manner.
 
flyingron said:
When I did a tandem skydive jump not only did I have to sign a pretty onerous waiver, they made me watch a video by some goober who appears to be the principal in the parachute equipment company saying how I should expect to die or be painfully and permanently injured using his product.
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This one? If not probably something similar.

The script is pretty common. The first time I came across one was about 8 years ago. I was asked to look into a parachute death claim for an uninsured operator. In the one I saw, the "goober" was dressed in a business suit and tie and was sitting at a desk in front of a bookcase full of law books. He was very, very somber and struck me as the rough equivalent of the guys who do their own legal ads on TV, although from the other side.

If I recall correctly, there is an association of skydive operators that provides sample documents and scripts. The written waivers really are quite a sight. Here's one of them Tandem Skydive Waiver.
 
FloridaPilot said:
Hello,

I'm trying out a new school and I went on an intro flight. Before going on the flight they made me sign a waiver stating that: "We are NOT responsible if you die in the airplane" Well, if they are not responsible then who is? I understand personal responsibility is at an all time low but I believe that is a little excessive. What do you folks think? Would that make you think otherwise about the school?
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I think your other post shows the reason for this.

I'd advise going somewhere else.
 
PPC1052 said:
This. I don't see why some people (including so many judges) think that's so horrible. If a recovery in the event of injury or death is your only concern, why not just get your own insurance, sign the waiver and go fly? Of course you won't get pain and suffering payments, but you don't have to hire an attorney and experts to try to prove a liability claim in order to get paid.

The problem comes when these judges are presented with sad facts, and they are presented with a poor family that left their loved ones. All they see is the loss of the family before them. But they can't see all of the unintended consequences that come when they shift the risk of loss back. Then it drives prices up, rewards people for their poor planning, and kills industries.
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coloradobluesky said:
If you don't want to sign it, politely refuse. They might rent the plane to you anyway.

Don't take it personally, and don't let THEM take it personally. Inform them that you are NOT required anything you don't want to or don't understand the consequences of. Or perhaps just tell them it is "your policy" not to sign such documents. Or that your lawyer will have to look it over. Ask to talk to the manager and ask him to explain the document to you.
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I just found it strange, that I had to sign a document like that, I have never sued anybody in my life. If I go into your school and give you my hard earned money. I trust that your school
and instructor are going to do the best they can to do the right thing. I'm grateful that the airplane didn't stop turning in flight. I had to tell the instructor to check the weather because thunderstorms were coming through. I read enough posts here to know......Thanks guys!
 
FloridaPilot said:
I had to tell the instructor to check the weather because thunderstorms were coming through.
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I am sure that he is most appreciative of you saving his life during your INTRO flight. Sheesh. You and the Oklahoma Wonder Boy must be related.
 
Who's the Oklahoma wonder boy? Did I miss something?
 
I don't make passengers sign a waiver, however any nubile females will be carefully searched to exclude dangerous items from being on board.
 
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