Student Fell Out Of Plane

tinerj said:
Someone in the thread made a reference to a statement made by the NTSB. Where? I don't think they have yet made any statement yet. I think the statement was made by EMS personnel, not the NTSB.

Also the 601 elevator control is kind of strange -- the more you move it the *less* resistance you feel. The stick is a has a Y top, and it is mounted between the two seats and pretty far back -- not in the middle of the floor. But if you reach back to get something in the luggage compartment, that is most likely to pull *back* on the stick. (Of course, this could have been modified to have two floor sticks between the pilot and passenger legs -- that's an option.)

But no way I think about it can I see the canopy coming unlatched in flight due to being hit by someone moving around. Maybe it wasn't latched at all. Nothing makes sense. Gotta see what the NTSB says.

And how can a reporter say the canopy came off, when the plane is back there with the canopy clearly visible as still attached to the plane. That was a post incident photo because the police are standing around the plane.
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Oyyyy, I've flown one plane with divergent stick force, what a nightmare that is. An RAAF F-111 pilot crashed it on landing due to PIO which in this case was really Plane induced oscillation.
 
Thoughts and prayers to this man's family and friends.

BRADLEY CO., TN:
Search crews recovered the body of a missing co-pilot who fell around 2,500 feet to his death from a small plane Friday.
The victim's identity has still not been officially released, but Bradley County officials confirm the body they found Saturday, is that of the fallen pilot.

Channel 3 spoke to one of his friends off camera, who says the man is middle-aged and was very involved in church.

He'd just recently purchased the single engine plane. He was taking lessons from a more-experienced pilot when part of the plane fell off.

Dozens of search crews worked late into the night by foot and air, then resumed when daylight returned.

"The family was out this morning searching with us as well," Bradley County Fire and Rescue Chief Troy Spence said.

They scoured areas around the last cell phone ping, near Weatherly Switch Road. The first clue they found was a pre-flight checklist torn in two lying in a field. Then, they found another clue they were getting closer.

"Three hundred yards from here we actually found a hat that indicated it had been on the aircraft. That lead us to believe we were definitely in the right area and we were going to have success today," Spence said.

Around 11:30 a.m. Saturday, an air crew spotted the man down below.

"He was on the ground. Back across Weatherly Switch right here and Lead Mine Valley, both of those roads is where we found the victim," Spence said.

Crews used ATV's to pull the man's body from the woods that were just about 150 yards off Lead Mine Valley Road.

"It's one of those things, we always want to be able to give these people back their loved ones," Spence said.

The Bradley County Sheriff's Office says it's now up to the National Transportation Safety Board investigate what caused him to fall mid-flight. Right now, this is all they know.

"The canopy malfunctioned and came off the aircraft and as a result, one of the two pilots aboard was ejected from the aircraft," Bradley County Sheriff's Office Spokesperson Bob Gault said.

The Bradley County Sheriff's Office says they'll likely release the victim's identity Monday. They say the NTSB may start their investigation this weekend or possibly wait until Monday.

Again, the head pilot in the plane was able to safely land and immediately called 911 to report that his friend had fallen from the malfunctioned plane.

We'll continue to bring you any updates as they're released.
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Pilot's body recovered from Bradley Co. wooded area
 
Fearless Tower said:
Read the NTSB report on the 2012 accident that Bartmc linked.

Basically, if you unbuckle the lapbelt in order to reach back to get something and the airplane enters some negative G's, even with the shoulder straps still on, you can find yourself ejected.
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Interesting...

Wonder how high the negative Gs have to be in order to overpower the air flow and open.
 
MachFly said:
Interesting...

Wonder how high the negative Gs have to be in order to overpower the air flow and open.
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The airflow may very well be providing negative pressure on the canopy. A quarter of a G negative would send and unprepared, unrestrained occupant right through an unlatched canopy.
 
bartmc said:
If you clicked "Full Narrative" on that NTSB report, it would have included a link to a youtube video (First NTSB I've seen with a YouTube link)

With the PiperSport, the answer to your question appears to be "Positive 1"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGv0JqKJse4
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I watched that video..... The guy wrote that the canopy opened an inch or 2.... Yeah right................. at 5 minutes into the video the canopy was open 2 feet.. or MORE...:hairraise:
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
UPDATE: Body of missing student pilot found
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This article mentions that apparently neither one of them was strapped in. Gotta wonder if they started out that way, or what? And why unfasten the seatbelts at any point? Why would both of them do so?
I was lucky enough to be very greenand impressionable when my head smashed on the overhead after (stupidly) overflying a smokestack in a 150 on a training flight. My lap belt was quite snug, and it never slipped. Everything just stretched briefly, including me. From that day on, I never unbuckled the seatbelt in flight, even if I dropped something, or the passenger door came ajar, or whatever. And I make sure that stuff is tight before takeoff. While soaring, where you go looking for rising air, this becomes very important. I've banged my head on the canopy more than once since that first time. If I was with another pilot and had some urgent reason to undo the belt or harness, I'd make sure the other pilot stayed strapped in. Hard to get ejected from a high-wing Cessna, but it would be only marginally better to "merely" wind up with your head under the panel, or your whole stupid self tossed in the baggage compartment. You could be knocked out or severely injured, or just fail to regain control in time to avert disaster.
When I fly by airliner, I don't take off the belt, just loosen it a little. You just never know.
I'm very interested in hearing the CFI's report... whatever the reason for the possible upset or the canopy coming ajar, had this student been strapped in, he'd be alive to tell the tale. Pathetic. :nonod:
 
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In the PA-12 flying pipeline just west of Abilene, there was a long large ridge just to the south that with a south wind would create incredible turbulence so bad that even with the Hooker harness cinched down super tight, I still had to wear my helmet to keep from getting knocked out.
 
N801BH said:
I watched that video..... The guy wrote that the canopy opened an inch or 2.... Yeah right................. at 5 minutes into the video the canopy was open 2 feet.. or MORE...:hairraise:
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I think you misunderestimated the intent of the video. The POH says it'll open a few inches, he had a report from a CFI/Student that it opened up more than that and went to see for himself if it exceeded what the POH said, obviously it did. He said he would notify the manufacturer. I.e he was proving that it would open 2 feet, he agrees with you.
 
Henning said:
In the PA-12 flying pipeline just west of Abilene, there was a long large ridge just to the south that with a south wind would create incredible turbulence so bad that even with the Hooker harness cinched down super tight, I still had to wear my helmet to keep from getting knocked out.
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I've hit my head pretty hard on the top of my Cherokee in mountain wave turbulence. While in the air, I contemplated giving up flying because I was having such a rotten time. I bet I tightened my seat belt a dozen times on a 2hr flight.
 
If they were indeed on an instructional flight, my guess is that this happened while they were attempting to do stalls. If they entered a spin, who knows what forces they experienced and how the canopy would behave?
 
Suicide or sex. Ifthe cfi was also unbuckled suggests the latter.
 
bartmc said:
I think you misunderestimated the intent of the video. The POH says it'll open a few inches, he had a report from a CFI/Student that it opened up more than that and went to see for himself if it exceeded what the POH said, obviously it did. He said he would notify the manufacturer. I.e he was proving that it would open 2 feet, he agrees with you.
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Agreed...... Time willl tell of his agenda.....

Personally I would have not flown over populated areas doing that test.:no:
 
The man who fell through the sky Friday afternoon had been flying for years.

An employee at the Collegedale Municipal Airport couldn't recall exactly when David Richardson started piloting planes. Six, seven years ago?

Another pilot at the airport thought Richardson started flying about 31/2 years ago.

Either way, they said, the man was experienced. On Friday, however, he flew a plane he had just purchased, and he wasn't prepared for what those at the airport described as a freak accident
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http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/mar/31/body-of-pilot-found/?local
 
This was a good man who lost his life. Some of the comments, accusations, and speculations here are way out of line.

Thoughts and prayers to Mr. Richardson's family.
 
Fast Dude said:
This was a good man who lost his life. Some of the comments, accusations, and speculations here are way out of line.

Thoughts and prayers to Mr. Richardson's family.
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Nope. Hard cheese. The internet will say the same about everyone, you, me, everyone, the way it is.
 
The night before, the searchers had found a preflight checklist, torn in half.
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A little ironic... maybe they tore through the parts about seatbelts and securing the canopy.
 
Oh brother. There are three systems and three links in this accident.
To Keep pilot in airplane:

Canopy- latch securely.... FAIL
Seatbelt- latch securely.... Fail
Stick: avoid zero and negative G maneuvers...FAIL.

When you're 0 and 3 there's not much left.

:(
 
bbchien said:
Oh brother. There are three systems and three links in this accident.
To Keep pilot in airplane:

Canopy- latch securely.... FAIL
Seatbelt- latch securely.... Fail
Stick: avoid zero and negative G maneuvers...FAIL.

When you're 0 and 3 there's not much left.

:(
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Agreed......

That guy would not have stood a chance in Vegas...:no:
 
Just the 709 ride for the CFI. The only required task will be fastening the seat belt. Well, maybe a couple other details too.

And sad to say this should probably be posted in Dave's "you can't make this stuff up" thread. And we wonder why they think we're nuts.

bbchien said:
Oh brother. There are three systems and three links in this accident.
To Keep pilot in airplane:

Canopy- latch securely.... FAIL
Seatbelt- latch securely.... Fail
Stick: avoid zero and negative G maneuvers...FAIL.

When you're 0 and 3 there's not much left.

:(
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bbchien said:
Oh brother. There are three systems and three links in this accident.
To Keep pilot in airplane:

Canopy- latch securely.... FAIL
Seatbelt- latch securely.... Fail
Stick: avoid zero and negative G maneuvers...FAIL.

When you're 0 and 3 there's not much left.

:(
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The canopy part, they can pop open, the negative G part, someone mentioned these planes have a slightly divergent stick force, I've dealt with that before, it's ugly, the guy who flew the plane after me crashed it, I only took it around the pattern once and knew the tail needed to be redesigned (which we started on that day). I can't imagine the 601 being as bad, but if they were in a maneuver that add some Gs, or an excessive push in a stall recovery, and exasperated the problem I can see getting negative accidentally quite easily. However what is inexcusable is unfastening the belt, WTF, who flys without being strapped in?

I'll be very interested in reading the NTSB report with accurate information as to the surrounding circumstances, I don't ever believe the veracity of media reporting in these events.
 
Fast Dude said:
This was a good man who lost his life. Some of the comments, accusations, and speculations here are way out of line.

Thoughts and prayers to Mr. Richardson's family.
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Maybe, but this is not a touchy feely memorial page, this is where we discuss stupid pilot tricks. The dude committed suicide, either intentionally or through stupidity or senility. Come the day that I kill myself in a plane, I expect to be thoroughly shredded here, and likely rightfully so.
 
flav8r said:
Gotta love the comments left by some of the readers.
The quotes are from the following article on
Tom said:
Sorry, dude is gone. Every time we hear of a small plane crash I say how unsafe it is to fly in these little planes.
And...every time the pilots of our community come back and say they are oh so safe and that it is only of pilot error.
No. Small non-commercial planes are a death trap.
If you love your family member you don't want them in a small aircraft. Period.
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WRCBtv.com website.
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100% of deaths in small planes happen in small planes.
 
Henning said:
Maybe, but this is not a touchy feely memorial page, this is where we discuss stupid pilot tricks. The dude committed suicide, either intentionally or through stupidity or senility. Come the day that I kill myself in a plane, I expect to be thoroughly shredded here, and likely rightfully so.
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Any chance that he had no shoulder harness on, a lose lap belt and simple slipped out of the belt?

I remember in car accidents the it is not uncommon in the older style belts that we use in planes that people would slide down and out of the belt. That is why cars changed to the intertial reels styles that we use in them today.
 
Is your spell-checker working properly, or is the auto-correct playing tricks?

Henning said:
The canopy part, they can pop open, the negative G part, someone mentioned these planes have a slightly divergent stick force, I've dealt with that before, it's ugly, the guy who flew the plane after me crashed it, I only took it around the pattern once and knew the tail needed to be redesigned (which we started on that day). I can't imagine the 601 being as bad, but if they were in a maneuver that add some Gs, or an excessive push in a stall recovery, and exasperated the problem I can see getting negative accidentally quite easily. However what is inexcusable is unfastening the belt, WTF, who flys without being strapped in?

I'll be very interested in reading the NTSB report with accurate information as to the surrounding circumstances, I don't ever believe the veracity of media reporting in these events.
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ScottM said:
100% of deaths in small planes happen in small planes.
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Well, this death happened outside of a small plane! :yikes: Death wasn't caused by the airplane, it was those damn trees!:mad2:
 
ScottM said:
Any chance that he had no shoulder harness on, a lose lap belt and simple slipped out of the belt?

I remember in car accidents the it is not uncommon in the older style belts that we use in planes that people would slide down and out of the belt. That is why cars changed to the intertial reels styles that we use in them today.
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Not really, although the converse happened before as is linked in the NTSB report near the beginning of the thread. Even a loosened lap belt should have caught him at the lower thigh, and even as such, why loosen it? Submarining under the belt is a completely different geometry than going out the top.
 
The N number is 999NA (visible in one of the videos) and it was a 601XL kit from Zenith (Mexico, Missouri.) The year of manufacture is 2009, before the upgrade kit became available.

How does that work if the plane is grounded, and then an upgrade kit is installed, does that get reflected in the FAA registry? An upgraded 601XL is called a 601XLB.
 
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