Stranded!

[onwards]

Well, it was bound to happen at some point. I have finally encountered my first serious mechanical breakdown, in the sense that it grounded my plane in an unplanned spot.

I had flown out with a couple of colleagues to Phoenix (DVT) on Sunday for a last-minute meeting all day yesterday. As a side note, how cool is it to have my own plane for these kinds of things? considering it was Easter weekend, getting commercial tix last minute like that would have been a nightmare.

Anyway, travel from CCR to DVT took 4.5 hours, mostly because I chose the "southern route" (CCR->BFL ish->DVT, instead of CCR->DVT) which made it a bit longer. Didn't want to deal with the higher Sierra peaks Saturday afternoon, what with the threat of thunderstorms. It was all very pleasant.

Yesterday we took off from DVT to fly back home. Fighting 25kn headwinds the whole way, we finally got to the vicinity of Harris Ranch around 7P, and decided to stop for dinner. All well and good.

Landed at Harris, parked the plane next to the fuel pump while my colleagues went to get a table, and got to work. Topped it off, then pushed the plane back so I can drive to parking.

Tried to start it, went through the normal procedure. It cranks ever so slowly about one time, then stops and refuses to move again. A couple of further attempts result in the battery getting completely drained. I make sure of that by turning on the landing light and trying the starter, and the light goes out immediately, confirming a dead battery. The clicking solenoids are another hint.

I walk over to the Harris Shell station and ask if they have a mechanic or someone who can help me jumpstart the plane - nope. It's getting late. I panic. I start looking for mechanics who would do an outcall, whatever it costs. Nothing at all nearby - the place is completely out of the way. I called the FBO at Fresno, but they cannot send anyone out. Bakersfield is the same story. We are stranded with no way to get the plane going.

Motel and hotel rooms? very funny. Everything is sold out, on account of people traveling back (Easter). Eventually Harris realized they had one room available, so we managed to find shelter.

In the meantime, I call all my contacts up in the bay area, and a couple hours later I strike gold; I found a mechanic who was willing to drive down (from the bay area) in the morning to help get the plane started.

He arrives around 930A. I spent the night blaming myself for every possible thing - maybe it was because it was a hot start, or maybe I didn't do this or that or the other. We meet near the plane. I tell him all the symptoms I experienced in order with great accuracy and increasing embarrassment. He starts smiling, and says "I betcha I know what's wrong". He opens the back and pokes his head in, as do I. Removed the battery cover, and in a quick motion FLICKS his finger under the negative terminal - which pops up free easily.

He spends the next five minutes rubbing off the accumulated corrosion and then putting it back on and tightening it. Tells me to try again - the plane starts with renewed vigor. What problem?

His comment to me before he left was "if you ask me, this was mechanic error. They simply didn't tighten the terminal enough last time they put in a battery" (which was last June). I pay him the $480 (!) he asks for, not because this was a hard job, but because his roundtrip time to get to me was over 6 (!) hours.

We fly back home, and I deliver the plane to the shop. After showing them everything and telling them what happened, they agree to give me a partial credit towards the money I spent on the out call. So good on them, actually. I'm also going to get the aluminum cables replaced with copper ones so as to better deliver electricity when it's needed (during startup).

Have any of you ever gotten stranded this way?

 

[pericynthion]

Glad it was an easy fix. As you become more familiar with your aircraft, if you have an engineering-type mind, you should be able to diagnose and fix simple problems like that yourself. A jump start from a car would also have worked (if a 14V system). Or find an A&P who can fly out instead of driving. Or someone based out of Fresno which is 1 hour drive away.

 

[John221us]

Almost, the Saturday before last, in Santa Barbara, but I found an A&P on the field (at 6:00 PM on a Saturday) and she got me going (needed to clean a sparkplug). It failed the runup on the #4 cylinder/left mag and I couldn't clear it with leaning and running it up. Another time, I had an iffy battery (like you experienced), but we called my A&P and he gave me some advice on how to nurse it to start (repeated short attempts) and it worked.

 

[Irish_Armada]

Ouch, how did your colleagues take it?

Also, I mapped out your flight -- did you just fly around all that restricted airspace by Lancaster/Palmdale? I've never dealt with restricted in my whopping 50 hours of experience.

 

[onwards]

Ouch, how did your colleagues take it?

Also, I mapped out your flight -- did you just fly around all that restricted airspace by Lancaster/Palmdale? I've never dealt with restricted in my whopping 50 hours of experience.

In the end, they took it better than I did. Of course, I was deeply embarrassed the whole time. I wish it happened with just me on board.

We overflew restricted 2515 both ways. Joshua will often allow overflights at above 7500 feet unless something particularly unusual takes place. The airspace was hot but we still got permission.

 

[onwards]

Glad it was an easy fix. As you become more familiar with your aircraft, if you have an engineering-type mind, you should be able to diagnose and fix simple problems like that yourself. A jump start from a car would also have worked (if a 14V system). Or find an A&P who can fly out instead of driving. Or someone based out of Fresno which is 1 hour drive away.

I wish I'd known that a car jump would work... But I didn't. It is a 14v system. I will next time. I also got a crash course in hand propping just so I have it as a tool.

 

[docmirror]

Sorry, this is on the operator. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but if there is a starting issue, you look first at the batt, connections, then starter solenoid, and starter. You don't have to be a Nascar mechanic to know where your plane's batt is, and how to check and clean the main connections to it.

This could have been solved by 10 minutes of investigation, even by most non_A&Ps. Yes, the previous A&P didn't do a good job, but that's after the fact of being stranded.

I've been stranded with a dead starter before, in Taos and I propped it and got it to a shop where it could be swapped. I don't expect anyone to know how to prop a plane, but that would also have done the job to get home.

 

[onwards]

Sorry, this is on the operator. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but if there is a starting issue, you look first at the batt, connections, then starter solenoid, and starter. You don't have to be a Nascar mechanic to know where your plane's batt is, and how to check and clean the main connections to it.

This could have been solved by 10 minutes of investigation, even by most non_A&Ps. Yes, the previous A&P didn't do a good job, but that's after the fact of being stranded.

I've been stranded with a dead starter before, in Taos and I propped it and got it to a shop where it could be swapped. I don't expect anyone to know how to prop a plane, but that would also have done the job to get home.

I dunno. I spoke to half a dozen folks with a lot more experience than I have (including the maintenance officer in my flying club, who tried to help me even though i was not flying a club plane) and not a single one suggested any of this. Prior to this event, it's true that I had no idea where the battery in my plane was, or that I would be allowed to do anything to it myself. I'm still new to flying.

Next time I would not be stranded. But for having zero clue on these matters, and being stuck at night in a remote location, I did what I could.

 

[spiderweb]

Sorry, this is on the operator. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but if there is a starting issue, you look first at the batt, connections, then starter solenoid, and starter. You don't have to be a Nascar mechanic to know where your plane's batt is, and how to check and clean the main connections to it.

This could have been solved by 10 minutes of investigation, even by most non_A&Ps. Yes, the previous A&P didn't do a good job, but that's after the fact of being stranded.

I've been stranded with a dead starter before, in Taos and I propped it and got it to a shop where it could be swapped. I don't expect anyone to know how to prop a plane, but that would also have done the job to get home.

Random, that's what I was thinking. I learned this first when I couldn't start my car one night. The next day I could start it, but I brought it in to the shop, only to be gently humiliated when the mechanic simply cleaned the corrosion away.

Still, I don't think there is any call to be so harsh. Some people know this stuff and some don't. Though I try to know as much as I can, and am learning more all the time, this particular case would have grounded me, except for the experience I had had with my car, those years ago.

 

[docmirror]

Still, I don't think there is any call to be so harsh. Some people know this stuff and some don't.

So - I start with an apology, and go on to explain myself in some detail. But you still don't like it. Well, I guess get over it.

Oh and learn your aircraft systems, or pay an A&P to come out and get you going. This is perfect example of the cost of ignorance. Not being ignorant person, but lacking in the knowledge of something that is quite serviceable by the operator.

 

[John221us]

Random, that's what I was thinking. I learned this first when I couldn't start my car one night. The next day I could start it, but I brought it in to the shop, only to be gently humiliated when the mechanic simply cleaned the corrosion away.

Still, I don't think there is any call to be so harsh. Some people know this stuff and some don't. Though I try to know as much as I can, and am learning more all the time, this particular case would have grounded me, except for the experience I had had with my car, those years ago.

Typically, the way you know is to have it happen to you once (actually many times for me in the old PoS Bug I drove in college, no matter how many times I washed it down with baking soda). I am sure the OP is now well versed on this subject and probably lucky he didn't have to deal with in his earlier life.

 

[Everskyward]

Random, that's what I was thinking. I learned this first when I couldn't start my car one night. The next day I could start it, but I brought it in to the shop, only to be gently humiliated when the mechanic simply cleaned the corrosion away.

Still, I don't think there is any call to be so harsh. Some people know this stuff and some don't. Though I try to know as much as I can, and am learning more all the time, this particular case would have grounded me, except for the experience I had had with my car, those years ago.

You're not the only one. I've done that with my car too.

 

[spiderweb]

So - I start with an apology, and go on to explain myself in some detail. But you still don't like it. Well, I guess get over it.

Oh and learn your aircraft systems, or pay an A&P to come out and get you going. This is perfect example of the cost of ignorance. Not being ignorant person, but lacking in the knowledge of something that is quite serviceable by the operator.

I don't disagree about knowing as much as one can. I am simply saying that saying "Sorry, this is on the operator" is more an indictment than an apology.

 

[Vaflier]

Onward, There is absolutely no shame in not knowing how to troubleshoot an electrical system on a car. Plane or boat. None of us know everything about everything (. Although some may disagree. ). If you as I suspect would like to know a lot more about the workings of your aircraft, I would reccomend you speak to your shop about allowing you to assist in your next annual inspection. You will learn a lot and may even save a few bucks. Even if there is no cost savings the knowledge you gain will be invaluable especially if you encounter another problem away from home.

 

[docmirror]

I don't disagree about knowing as much as one can. I am simply saying that saying "Sorry, this is on the operator" is more an indictment than an apology.

Not only and indictment, but a trial, verdict and punishment to the tune of $500 and some room and board. The battery is most definitely a user/operator serviceable system in all GA planes.

If you're not gonna get over it, then put me on ignore. It's in your User CP.

Buh-bye.

 

[PilotAlan]

Typically, the way you know is to have it happen to you once (actually many times for me in the old PoS Bug I drove...)

Frankly, your ability to deal with things like this is directly correlated to how big a pile of junk your early cars were.

I had a Bug, a Monza, and an MGB, so I got really, really good at electrical troubleshooting (think about what shape the MGB and its Lucas electricals had to be in for a high school kid to be able to buy it).

 

[Threefingeredjack]

Frankly, your ability to deal with things like this is directly correlated to how big a pile of junk your early cars were.

I had a Bug, a Monza, and an MGB, so I got really, really good at electrical troubleshooting (think about what shape the MGB and its Lucas electricals had to be in for a high school kid to be able to buy it).

Excellent observation...... I feel your pain as a former Jensen-Healy owner!!!

 

[PilotAlan]

Excellent observation...... I feel your pain as a former Jensen-Healy owner!!!

A second thought.... For the last 30 years, cars are so electronic and difficult to troubleshoot, there's lots of people in their 30s who have simply never had the opportunity to learn these skills.

If your first car was built after about 1980, you never had a car that you could fix with a test light, screwdriver, knife, wire, and electrical tape.'

PS, until replacing the key switch, I routinely started the MG with shorting the starter solenoid with a screwdriver (that conveniently stayed in a slot under the hood).

 

[azure]

Have any of you ever gotten stranded this way?

April 17, 2005. Lake Lawn, WI. Doc Bruce and EdFred were both there that day and know the details. I was with Maverick in her 177RG. We tried to prop it, not a chance. Flagged a groundskeeper to help us try to jumpstart it too, to no avail. The starter had given up the ghost.

Your experience was a little different from mine since in the end, I didn't stay stranded. I had to be at work the following morning or be out of a job. A good samaritan who happened to be passing through flew me back to home base while Mav stayed with her plane and got the starter fixed. I'm sure it will happen to me again someday though.

 

[douglas393]

A second thought.... For the last 30 years, cars are so electronic and difficult to troubleshoot, there's lots of people in their 30s who have simply never had the opportunity to learn these skills.

If your first car was built after about 1980, you never had a car that you could fix with a test light, screwdriver, knife, wire, and electrical tape.

I would add hammer to that list. Had a two cars where hitting the starter with a hammer saved me the cost of needing a new starter.

 

[PilotAlan]

I would add hammer to that list. Had a two cars where hitting the starter with a hammer saved me the cost of needing a new starter.

Yep. That was the Monza.

 

[wabower]

The next thing you should know about your battery is to keep a tender hooked to it when you're not using it.

I dunno. I spoke to half a dozen folks with a lot more experience than I have (including the maintenance officer in my flying club, who tried to help me even though i was not flying a club plane) and not a single one suggested any of this. Prior to this event, it's true that I had no idea where the battery in my plane was, or that I would be allowed to do anything to it myself. I'm still new to flying.

Next time I would not be stranded. But for having zero clue on these matters, and being stuck at night in a remote location, I did what I could.

 

[spiderweb]

Not only and indictment, but a trial, verdict and punishment to the tune of $500 and some room and board. The battery is most definitely a user/operator serviceable system in all GA planes.

If you're not gonna get over it, then put me on ignore. It's in your User CP.

Buh-bye.

Curious. I have nothing to "get over," and, in fact, I think it is you who is offended; and I am, frankly, having trouble understanding why. You'll note, I hope, that I started by agreeing with you--and, indeed, I agree with your first paragraph, here. In short, you're right--it would have been a simple fix had the OP known what to do.

I suppose I am only saying that you might have been a bit harsh with someone who simply didn't have the knowledge. This isn't a scathing criticism of your post, so it isn't necessary that you take it that way.

 

[douglas393]

Yep. That was the Monza.

I had a 1978 Monza(the first car I bought with my own money. Dear old dad would not let me buy the MG midget which was much cooler) but no it was a 1972 Plymouth Suburban station wagon, and a 1984 chevy cavalier. The suburban was my first car given to me when I got my license by my dad. The thing was only 6 years old but had a dent on every door, a leaking gas tank, and broken pop up lights. Then again this was when cars only lasted til 60 or 70 k and this thing had 70 k when dad gave it to me. It taught me everything I knew about car repair because I had to do it all myself.

Loved the Monza

 

[John221us]

I had a 1978 Monza(the first car I bought with my own money. Dear old dad would not let me buy the MG midget which was much cooler) but no it was a 1972 Plymouth Suburban station wagon, and a 1984 chevy cavalier. The suburban was my first car given to me when I got my license by my dad. The thing was only 6 years old but had a dent on every door, a leaking gas tank, and broken pop up lights. Then again this was when cars only lasted til 60 or 70 k and this thing had 70 k when dad gave it to me. It taught me everything I knew about car repair because I had to do it all myself.

Loved the Monza

Lol, I learned to drive in a '72 Suburban and drove it for two years before I got my Bug. I remember, it needed a new engine at about 60k (small block 350). GM engineering at its best.

 

[PilotAlan]

Loved the Monza

Hated the Monza. It taught me about fixing gearshift linkages, starters, fuel leaks, corroded wiring, bleeding brakes, and exhaust leaks. All in 6 months.
I also learned the importance of keeping a fire extinguisher handy, when it backfired through the carb and burned to the ground.

 

[MAKG1]

Yecch, that sucks.

A lot of local pilots like Harris, but I'm not one of them. I couldn't think of a worse place to get stuck. Harris is a place a blind pilot could find, navigating by smell. It's very literally a massive s**tpile.

I'm glad you got out of there.

 

[docmirror]

Curious. I have nothing to "get over,"

Jeez, I already have a shrew - er wife. I mean really,,, give it a rest.

 

[Tom-D]

I'm surprised that your maintenance people had not told you the aluminum cables are trouble prone, they have a long history of this sort of problem.

 

[Morne]

If you have a 14V system then always keep a pair of jumper cables in the plane, just like most folks do in their cars.

I haven't been stranded like that but I have had a dead battery at an inconvenient time (instrument checkride). Fortunately the line guys brought out the battery cart and got me going. I learned all about the battery when I changed it shortly thereafter.

Which reminds me, my ELT battery is about due as well...

Don't beat yourself up. If the worst problem with a plane you ever have is this then count yourself lucky.

 

[Sac Arrow]

I've been CLOSE to being stranded at remote airports before in my Turbo Arrow. That thing had a tendency to sometimes dump copious quantities of oil out the vent tube and inopportune times. Nothing like walking up to your plane parked at KBIH, seeing a pool of oil, and wondering if you are going to make it across the Sierras that day. You spend a lot of time with the dipstick and a calculator.

(It doesn't take a whole lot of oil to make a big mess. No, I've never ran out of oil.)

 

[docmirror]

People, she didn't need a jump start. The battery had plenty of juice in it. The terminal was loose on the post(or bolt). Of course, an attempt at jump start may have discovered the loose cable. But the batt was fine. Also, the batt was left unserviced long enough to develop significant corrosion.

 

[Garthur]

If you fly long enough you will be stranded somewhere. I had an alternator failure over Terra Haute Indiana on the way to the East Coast. I was at 7000 feet when I noticed the problem. Contacted the tower at Terra Haute then made a decent to the airport. I asked ground control if there was an FBO with mechanics on duty. He said all they had was an A&P school and that I should go there. Bad for me, it was July 4th and a Friday. The tower contacted the school instructor at home and he was nice enough to come out to the airport. He said that I could use his tools to remove the alternator, but he had a large family thing going on at home and that he would be back the next day (Saturday). I rented a car from Avis, got a hotel room. First thing Saturday morning, I took the alternator to a local car parts place and had them test it. The alternator was shot. On Monday, I located an alternator in Dayton Ohio and drove there to pick it up. The new alternator was only $600. Later that day, I put the new alternator on with the help of the instructor.

We spent 4 days in Terra Haute.

 

[dell30rb]

The new alternator was only $600.

A grand bargain!

 

[Shepherd]

Wait until you get stuck in Montana, in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of the winter, in what seemed like the eternal snow storm, for a week.
Then you are truly stranded.
I waited five days for them to fly in an engine, two days to swap it. The second they were done, I climbed in, took off,circled the field and got the heck out of there. Death was preferable to another day in that motel.

 

[rottydaddy]

Onward, There is absolutely no shame in not knowing how to troubleshoot an electrical system on a car. Plane or boat.

Not unless you're ashamed to pay almost $500, not to mention the costs associated with being stranded ( on a business trip no less) when the problem could have been diagnosed solved easily and legally by the pilot.

I think everyone (including ladies) should know how to put a spare tire on their car, and something like at least pinpointing a dirty and loose battery terminal clamp on an airplane falls in the same category. It's not rocket surgery, just a simple electrical circuit.

Referencing a different post in this thread, though, I'd sooner advise spending $500 than trying to hand-prop anything over 100 hp, especially with a starter installed (a hung starter could be the problem, and that could make hand-propping especially difficult and dangerous). Lots of people have gotten away with it, but probably just as meany have gotten hurt or had a runway airplane on their hands, because they had no clue what they were doing.
If you're convinced it just needs to be hand-propped, pay some other fool $500 to try it for you.
The other thing about propping when the battery's dead is that you also need to consider what might have killed the battery before you fly the plane again.

 

[onwards]

Not unless you're ashamed to pay almost $500, not to mention the costs associated with being stranded ( on a business trip no less) when the problem could have been diagnosed solved easily and legally by the pilot.

I think everyone (including ladies) should know how to put a spare tire on their car, and something like at least pinpointing a dirty and loose battery terminal clamp on an airplane falls in the same category. It's not rocket surgery, just a simple electrical circuit.

Referencing a different post in this thread, though, I'd sooner advise spending $500 than trying to hand-prop anything over 100 hp, especially with a starter installed (a hung starter could be the problem, and that could make hand-propping especially difficult and dangerous). Lots of people have gotten away with it, but probably just as meany have gotten hurt or had a runway airplane on their hands, because they had no clue what they were doing.
If you're convinced it just needs to be hand-propped, pay some other fool $500 to try it for you.
The other thing about propping when the battery's dead is that you also need to consider what might have killed the battery before you fly the plane again.

I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom trying to figure this out myself, with no prior knowledge beyond the general schematic of the electrical system I had to study for my PPL, and plenty of warnings about messing with the plane by myself without proper training or education - neither of which I have. At night. In a remote place. Where, if I somehow get it to start after fiddling with it, I will be flying with two other souls on board and no confidence that I will make it to my destination which, oh, is a few very dark mountains away. With partial cloud coverage settling in by the time I would have figured it out, and fog very likely forming at my destination by that time of night.

In other words, I completely stand by my decision to not mess with it until I got someone knowledgeable to come save me, and getting a crash course in these issues as part of the saving so that next time it happens I will be in a better position to judge what is proper and safe to do.

And it cost me a lot more than $500. Considering the meetings my assistant had to cancel and shuffle around, and the billable time unbilled for me and my colleagues, I'd estimate the overall cost at about $2500. Thankfully we did come in late morning so some of the day was saved. I'm still comfortable with my decision.

 

[dell30rb]

Now you know! It sounds like you were able to recognize that the starter could not get enough juice. Just know that its an engine, its got a starter, and a battery just like a car. Battery terminals corrode, just like a car. Its not some special airplane magic! And even if you did F up somehow with the terminals it would not cause the engine to stop or the plane to fall out of the sky

 

[EdFred]

Frankly, your ability to deal with things like this is directly correlated to how big a pile of junk your early cars were.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Waaaaaaaaay too many people nowadays have zero clue about how to fix simple things. Buddy had the same thing happen on his Jeep. "Got some scotch brite?" Vrrrroooom. Well it was a four cylinder, so it was more like "whireeeeeeeeeeee"

 

[wabower]

Your situation is somewhat typical of many GA pilots, especially those with no background or experience with combustion engines and the various components and systems that are installed in most airplanes. As you become more involved with aviation you'll (hopefully) learn that some working knowledge of what's going on "under the hood" is much more important when flying rather than driving.

In short (NPI) you must find a way to make the diagrams and canned answers for the oral exam "come to life" and gain a degree of understanding about troubleshooting and solving some of the most-common problems. During the years I traveled for business, the Target tub in the bag compartment contained a spare alternator and tools to install, a vacuum pump, bike pump and flat fixer, a spark plug and tools, duct tape, baling wire, various bulbs, fasteners, fuses, fasteners and other things that allowed me (or someone who was better at it than me) to get me going again. Now that the schedule is more relaxed I carry an inflated tail-wheel and tools and a few other things.

I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom trying to figure this out myself, with no prior knowledge beyond the general schematic of the electrical system I had to study for my PPL, and plenty of warnings about messing with the plane by myself without proper training or education - neither of which I have. At night. In a remote place. Where, if I somehow get it to start after fiddling with it, I will be flying with two other souls on board and no confidence that I will make it to my destination which, oh, is a few very dark mountains away. With partial cloud coverage settling in by the time I would have figured it out, and fog very likely forming at my destination by that time of night.

In other words, I completely stand by my decision to not mess with it until I got someone knowledgeable to come save me, and getting a crash course in these issues as part of the saving so that next time it happens I will be in a better position to judge what is proper and safe to do.

And it cost me a lot more than $500. Considering the meetings my assistant had to cancel and shuffle around, and the billable time unbilled for me and my colleagues, I'd estimate the overall cost at about $2500. Thankfully we did come in late morning so some of the day was saved. I'm still comfortable with my decision.