Stranded!

wabower said:
Your situation is somewhat typical of many GA pilots, especially those with no background or experience with combustion engines and the various components and systems that are installed in most airplanes. As you become more involved with aviation you'll (hopefully) learn that some working knowledge of what's going on "under the hood" is much more important when flying rather than driving.

In short (NPI) you must find a way to make the diagrams and canned answers for the oral exam "come to life" and gain a degree of understanding about troubleshooting and solving some of the most-common problems.
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Yes.

I'll add this though: I doubt that I would have been capable of retaining this knowledge until this incident happened. Now I will never forget it :)
 
onwards said:
Yes.

I'll add this though: I doubt that I would have been capable of retaining this knowledge until this incident happened. Now I will never forget it :)
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#citypeopleproblems
 
It only takes once. :D
onwards said:
Yes.

I'll add this though: I doubt that I would have been capable of retaining this knowledge until this incident happened. Now I will never forget it :)
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Same thing happened to me in a rented C177 many moons ago. Luckily it was at a good sized airport, and a mechanic replaced the ground strap in about 30 minutes.
 
I certainly understand the various limitations of the gen pop and mekanekal things. This is covered under 'will not start' 101. The battery stores the current, the cables deliver it to the starter solenoid and ground. That is it, all, finis. One battery, two cables to the ground and solenoid. Even has a voltmeter in the panel to tell you that there is or is not a problem. The voltmeter was indicating everything good, but the plane still won't start. One battery, two cables.

Same theory with a plane that pulls to the right. could be brake, or low tire. That's it. Check tire, ok? Then brake. Tire low? Fill it.
 
onwards said:
I'm sorry, but I just can't fathom trying to figure this out myself, with no prior knowledge beyond the general schematic of the electrical system I had to study for my PPL, and plenty of warnings about messing with the plane by myself without proper training or education - neither of which I have. At night. In a remote place. Where, if I somehow get it to start after fiddling with it, I will be flying with two other souls on board and no confidence that I will make it to my destination which, oh, is a few very dark mountains away. With partial cloud coverage settling in by the time I would have figured it out, and fog very likely forming at my destination by that time of night.

In other words, I completely stand by my decision to not mess with it until I got someone knowledgeable to come save me, and getting a crash course in these issues as part of the saving so that next time it happens I will be in a better position to judge what is proper and safe to do.
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I meant no disrespect to your conservative decision-making... "a motion to adjourn is always in order". :D If you're not sure what's wrong and/or whether or not you can address it yourself, the cost and hassle doesn't matter, if you value your safety and that of your pax.
And of course, even if you can do this kind of field service yourself, you want to be absolutely certain everything is working OK before takeoff... just as you would after paying a pro to do it.
So in the end, it still boils down to whether or not you have confidence that the problem is solved.
But it's worthwhile to learn how to do little things like this, and carry at least a folding multitool and a couple of rags in the flight bag.
 
docmirror said:
Jeez, I already have a shrew - er wife. I mean really,,, give it a rest.
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You were being a bit bitchy. You normally aren't. The guy already felt bad enough about not knowing what to do, and you decided to rub salt into it.
 
PilotAlan said:
Frankly, your ability to deal with things like this is directly correlated to how big a pile of junk your early cars were.
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Early cars? The POS Jetta broke the central ground (circuit 31 for all you insane VW people), fried its secondary ground because it was now carrying the primary's load, and killed the fuel pump on the highway. Yesterday, on the way home from the airport.

Faults like that can be fixed with 50 cents of solder and heat shrink, but diagnosis is a black art.
 
According to the experts on the red board, anything other than having a partially discharged battery removed, charged outside the airplane, and re-installed renders your airplane un-airworthy.

However, I have never been able to get a satisfactory answer as to how you prevent the alternator from charging the battery in the airplane during normal operation.
 
My interview process for new pilots ended with having them take me for a ride in one of my aeroplanes. The aeroplane was parked outside and had a bad starter, magneto, generator, whatever I decided. The necessary (but few) parts and tools could be found in either the airplane or vehicle I had given them. Having already fulfilled the rest of my requirements, if they could diagnose the problem, make a safe go/no go decision, and repair the unacceptable defects prior to departing then they were hired. We seldom got to the actual flight, I was just watching the thought process. For example, I recall one prospective pilot who gave up when he could not find a spare 24V light bulb knowing that our ops specs required a working cabin light for night flight. He didn't think to check that the dome light in the 24V land rover we were driving was an exact fit.
 
w_privett said:
He didn't think to check that the dome light in the 24V land rover we were driving was an exact fit.
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I guess I would have failed as well. I would never have guessed that a land rover (or any "typical" vehicle) had a 24V electrical system.
 
gkainz said:
I guess I would have failed as well. I would never have guessed that a land rover (or any "typical" vehicle) had a 24V electrical system.
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Sounds like most would, but if you want this to be your hiring standard, then as a test this isn't too bad. I wonder how far you'd let them go though; for example, I'm sure there are bolts in the Rover's engine that could be cannibalized as well.
 
Having grown up on a farm, the "MacGuyver" gene runs strong in my blood ... I still would have missed this. I would have duct taped my LED headlamp to the ceiling and called it a GO.
 
FWIW I almost failed winnie's test. It was a bad magneto with a spare in the nose. I was a cocky kid and thought, I'll show the old man how fast I can get this done. I was so efficient that I didn't notice the spare mag was non-impulse. Engine wouldn't start. What I was supposed to do do was use the points fron the spare mag to replace the obviously burned points on the original, so in the end it took me all afternoon to get it going.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
However, I have never been able to get a satisfactory answer as to how you prevent the alternator from charging the battery in the airplane during normal operation.
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That's not how you discharge the battery. You do that by, say, leaving the master on overnight, or flooding the engine and cranking until the battery dies.

Although I did fly one aircraft once that would drain the battery when you turned on all the lights. That thing lit up like a Christmas tree. But that made it unairworthy for night or instrument flight under 14 CFR 91.205 (c)(5).
 
In fairness to Onwards, I'm pretty handy with a wrench, and I can diagnose and fix problems, but there is some element of "it's an airplane, and I don't want to screw it up" stigma in effect. I'm not comfortable doing the same level of electrical and mechanical disassembly and reassembly on my airplane as I am on my car (regulations notwithstanding) although I suppose I'd do it in a dire emergency.
 
MAKG1 said:
Although I did fly one aircraft once that would drain the battery when you turned on all the lights. That thing lit up like a Christmas tree. But that made it unairworthy for night or instrument flight under 14 CFR 91.205 (c)(5).
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That reminds me of my 170. It has a taxi light and a separate landing light and the electrical system is powered by an ancient generator (not alternator). If you try to use both the landing and taxi lights simulataneously, the generator won't be able to keep up with the load.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's not how you discharge the battery. You do that by, say, leaving the master on overnight, or flooding the engine and cranking until the battery dies.
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I think you read his post wrong.
 
onwards said:
Well, it was bound to happen at some point. I have finally encountered my first serious mechanical breakdown, in the sense that it grounded my plane in an unplanned spot.


Have any of you ever gotten stranded this way?
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Flooded batteries take continuous maintenance. They are definitely not something to look at only during annual inspection.

You should hire a mechanic to teach you how to service your battery, and purchase a Batteryminder.

Then, take care!
 
The only tools I carry around with me that would be of much use is a spark plug socket and wrench set - and a spare spark plug. The easiest thing in the world is to pull off a plug, and clean it - which is the case of fouling is 95% of the time a lead ball - 30 seconds with a dental pick - its clean - pt it back in and off you go. I have an 'ov-glove' bought at Walmart for that very purpose of handling hot plugs and near hot places on an engine.

As for weak spinning of a starter - yeah, in a Cherokee type A/C I'd be looking at connections . . . there are a few simple things we can do to fix very minor problems before they prevent flight.
 
gkainz said:
I guess I would have failed as well. I would never have guessed that a land rover (or any "typical" vehicle) had a 24V electrical system.
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Yeah, that's too crazy. I would rather interview at Google.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Crash is not good.
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Hand propping is something that should be approached deliberately and with caution. I agree a 'crash' course is not really a good idea

That said you can learn to hand prop an airplane in 15 minutes. It is a very simple procedure. A few minutes of instruction and a few minutes practice flipping the prop (with the mags off) is all you need. The important part is to treat the procedure like a checklist. If something/someone interrupts you and you forget your place on the checklist, start over.
 
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