STOP and goes?

Tina

Tina

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
11
Location
Hemet, Ca
Display Name
Display name:
Tina
Has anyone heard of the practice of Stop and Goes?

I was flying in the pattern in my Gyro along side a Instructor and his student in a Gobosh and he was doing what he said on the radio " Stop and goes" He would land and stop for a prolonged period of time like 2-3 minutes then set up for what ever or he was just talking with his student right in the middle of the runway then take off again.

It didn't seem to be a problem because the timing was OK, till on one loop around I was on finale and he was still setting there on the runway so I did some S-turns and slowed down till he finally took off ,it was easy to do in my Gyro but if I was flying my Cherokee I would of had to do a go around.

I talked to the Instructor later about this matter and he said he does this all the time and when he has the runway its his till he is done with it. I told him you created a hazard for me when I was in the pattern with you when you had your planed parked on the runway. He then said well you know how to do a go around don't you? I then got upset and left and thought there is no talking to this guy. He is rude and inconsiderate to other pilots in the pattern with him.

Maybe I am wrong and he has every right to do this but what if I had a engine out and had to land and he was just parked there on the runway?
 
If the field and/or pattern are not busy, and if the runway is long enough, stop & goes are fine. Note well: I will not do touch and goes in a retractable gear plane, but will (if not at all hurried) do a stop & go.
 
I understand what a touch & go is, but I have never understood a "stop and go", unless your CFI says to come to a complete stop, or you are in a TD and you need to come to a complete stop. More than likely it is just a T&G.


Stop and "goes" means he is gonna annouce it once! :wink2:
 
Last edited:
What class of airport was it? I've done stop-and-go's before with permission from the tower (class D) without a problem. I would check the A/FD to see if stop-and-go's/touch-and-go's are allowed at that airport.
 
You must come toa full stop for your night landings to count.

So 3 stop and goes -- especially on a longer runway -- makes sense.

There are a variety of opinions on this, but my own, personal rule (not law, regulation, or even widespread opinion) is to not do touch and goes in a complex airplane. There is simply too much too do in too short a time and it's a recipe for disaster.

Stop and goes make sense when the airport is not busy.

If there's other traffic in the pattern, then taxi off and taxi back.
 
I've heard of it, I haven't ever done one. I've heard of it at larger airports with a control tower and a long runway. I understand from my instructor (and the instructors here will correct me if I remembered wrong) that it seems to be done if they want to give the student a chance to "clean up" the plane (flaps up, carb heat, etc) before flying off again- usually only a few seconds.

If we had to do anything that needed time, we would clear the runway.
 
I have heard of and done stop and goes. Normal on long runways and I would stop for short periods time. 2-3 minutes seems long to me though.
 
We'll sometimes do stop and goes, but the "stop" period is more like 10 seconds to reconfigure the plane. In fact for night or tailwheel recency, unless you want to taxi back, you need to do them as stop and goes. I agree, minutes is inconsiderate and boorish, especially if you know there's other traffic in the pattern.
 
Done plenty of S&Gs, mainly when I want to get my night currency up to date. I fly out of a Class C airport, and at night, it's never been an issue, anytime I ask for it, I get a "Cleared Option" in response.
 
Wow, eight replies in nine minutes!

Stop and goes are in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

STOP AND GO- A procedure wherein an aircraft will land, make a complete stop on the runway, and then commence a takeoff from that point.
Click to expand...
Just sitting there without promptly taking off again seems rude, however.
 
Tina said:
Maybe I am wrong and he has every right to do this but what if I had a engine out and had to land and he was just parked there on the runway?
Click to expand...

If you had an engine out but still had radio, you should say, "Hey knucklehead! Clear the runway! I'm coming in!!"

He'd likely move....:wink2:
 
I'm with Richard. Perfectly acceptable when done right, but any more than enough time to reconfigure the aircraft for takeoff (trim, flaps, etc) is rude and potentially unsafe.
 
The DPE had me request a stop and go during my check ride to save the time of taxiing back.
 
Palmpilot said:
Stop and goes are in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.



Just sitting there without promptly taking off again seems rude, however.
Click to expand...
Agree. Two or three minutes seems excessive. I think you should be able to start the go portion in no more than 20-30 seconds if that.
 
Read the definition of "Cleared for the option" in the Pilot/Controller Glossary and you will see that stop-and-go is one of the options. IMHO two or three minutes is very unusual....stop, get the airplane configured for takeoff, go shouldn't take more than a few seconds. I would be surprised if a tower controller let anyone sit on the runway for more than a minute.

Bob Gardner
 
There are lots of things that people have the right to do that polite people would not do. Stop-and-goes are the norm for staying night current. Stopping for more than a few seconds while you clean up seems rude to me.

If it is something he does "all the time" as you say, then he should be more considerate. If it was an unusual occurance required by the circumstances of the moment, then he should be allowed to be the final arbitor of the safety of his flight.

In summary, he's a jerk.
 
jasc15 said:
What class of airport was it? I've done stop-and-go's before with permission from the tower (class D) without a problem. I would check the A/FD to see if stop-and-go's/touch-and-go's are allowed at that airport.
Click to expand...

It is a non-towed airport in a class E airspace with a runway 4,300 feet.
 
Tina said:
It is a non-towed airport in a class E airspace with a runway 4,300 feet.
Click to expand...
Hmmm I agree with Peggy, he is being a jerk. A low pass down the runway as part of your go around, while he is parked there, just off of his wing may cure him of this practice. or at least get students to stop wanting to fly with him.

As I would be turning final I may hit the PTT and ask him how much longer he plans to park there as I am about to land.
 
Next time he does this, park your butt in the middle of the runway after he takes off. When he says something to you, tell him it is "your runway" until you are done with it and to do a go around.
 
smigaldi said:
A low pass down the runway as part of your go around, while he is parked there, just off of his wing may cure him of this practice.
Click to expand...
It may also get you busted for violations of 91.111, 91.119, and/or 91.13. The FAA does not believe that two wrongs make a right. Better to put your attitude in your pocket and talk it over later (or on CTAF, if necessary for safety).
 
Ron Levy said:
It may also get you busted for violations of 91.111, 91.119, and/or 91.13. The FAA does not believe that two wrongs make a right. Better to put your attitude in your pocket and talk it over later (or on CTAF, if necessary for safety).
Click to expand...
If you can't land because he is fouling the runway a go around is your only option. Are you saying that the you should land and risk the collision? That is a pretty dumb thing to do and I am sure it would violate many more FARs
 
Tina said:
I talked to the Instructor later about this matter and he said he does this all the time and when he has the runway its his till he is done with it. I told him you created a hazard for me when I was in the pattern with you when you had your planed parked on the runway. He then said well you know how to do a go around don't you? I then got upset and left and thought there is no talking to this guy. He is rude and inconsiderate to other pilots in the pattern with him.

Maybe I am wrong and he has every right to do this but what if I had a engine out and had to land and he was just parked there on the runway?
Click to expand...

He's technically right- you can assert your right to land, even in an emergency, but if he's sitting there, well... "possession is 9/10ths" in that case. And in some cases, courtesy also means going around when someone has not cleared in time for you... we owe other pilots the benefit of the doubt, most of the time.

But of course 2-3 minutes, intentionally, is ridiculous. Ask him this, next time you see him: Would he do the same for the initial takeoff- sitting on the numbers, say- for 2-3 minutes?
I'll bet a dollar he'd say no. How that can be wrong but parking halfway down the runway is right is beyond reason.

Even on a long, tower-controlled runway, with "the option" to do whatever you like, I think the average cab controller would not be happy about that.
 
smigaldi said:
If you can't land because he is fouling the runway a go around is your only option. Are you saying that the you should land and risk the collision?
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with a go-around at a suitable altitude as soon as you realize separation will be compromised, but not "A low pass down the runway ... just off of his wing." If the FAA hears you buzzed the jerk, they will eat you, as well the jerk, since now you're both violating the rules and the jerk has a better defense than you do ("I was trying to get going but...").
 
Last edited:
I've done it once, and it is common practice at the next airport over.

The one time I did it was at a Class B airport - my CFI took me there so I could do a T&G. Tower told me to do a Stop and Go instead because we needed to hold for wake turbulence from the 737 that took off in front of us. It was on a 10,000' rwy so no problem for the 172.

The other common practice locally is at the next airport over from me. They have a 7,000' rwy. I've known folks to go over there to get night current by doing 2 stop and go's (and avoid having to taxi back each time), then come back to our airport for the last full stop landing.
 
Tina said:
He is rude and inconsiderate to other pilots in the pattern with him.
Click to expand...
There you go - you already knew the answer.

Probably rude and inconsiderate in other situations as well.

(Yes, I've heard of stop and go's, but snooze and go's are a whole nuther thing)
 
Ron Levy said:
Nothing wrong with a go-around at a suitable altitude as soon as you realize separation will be compromised, but not "A low pass down the runway ... just off of his wing." If the FAA hears you buzzed the jerk, they will eat you, not the jerk, since the jerk isn't violating any FAR's and you are.
Click to expand...
The suitable altitude is spelled out where in the FARs? And jsut off his wing is right as side stepping off of the center line puts you at a position to observe the traffic should he finally decide to take off.
 
After a discussion on the Red Board (I think?? I don't have access to it anymore), I went out and got night current by logging 3 landings at KABQ in .3 hours.

3 Stop and Goes, without a single pattern. Good stuff.
 
smigaldi said:
The suitable altitude is spelled out where in the FARs?
Click to expand...
91.119. If you're not 500 feet over him, you'd better have a real good excuse, like not recognizing he was there until you got so far below 500 feet that you couldn't get back up to 500 feet before you crossed over him, and in that case, you're probably admitting to following too closely in violation of 91.111 (creating a collision hazard). I've been over this one with the FAA over something that happened recently when someone pulled out on the runway in front of one of my students, so I know the FAA's position on this.
And jsut off his wing is right as side stepping off of the center line puts you at a position to observe the traffic should he finally decide to take off.
Click to expand...
From 500 AGL, yes. But not 50 AGL.
 
Last edited:
SkyHog said:
After a discussion on the Red Board (I think?? I don't have access to it anymore), I went out and got night current by logging 3 landings at KABQ in .3 hours.

3 Stop and Goes, without a single pattern. Good stuff.
Click to expand...
You can do a lot with a 10,000 foot runway.
 
Ron Levy said:
91.119. If you're not 500 feet over him, you'd better have a real good excuse,
Click to expand...
91.119 is N/A in this instance as a pilot would be landing.

"91.119 Except when necessary for takeoff or landing...."

One would continue the approach hoping the person that called for the stop and go would get going. The go-around would be initiated when it became apparent that continuing the landing would be hazardous. That could be as late as crossing the threshold.
 
Last edited:
Maybe he's doing this to make spacing between you and him. You imply in the op that your plane was a lot slower than him, and that the timing "worked out". Maybe he dicided to, instead of slow flighting in the pattern, take some time sitting on the runway to let you get ahead while he takes the time to talk to his student.
 
smigaldi said:
91.119 is N/A in this instance as a pilot would be landing.

"91.119 Except when necessary for takeoff or landing...."
Click to expand...
Since you're not landing (you're going around), it's not "necessary for ... landing." You want to believe otherwise, go ahead, but I know from having dealt with them on this issue that the FAA will not buy that argument. Unless you were just about at the landing threshold when someone pulls out without warning, they are going to ask if you had ample warning that the other plane was on or entering the runway, and if so (which you did in the case under discussion), and if you continued your approach so you passed within 500 feet of the other aircraft when you could have avoided by that much or more, they will toast you.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
You know one Inspector's interpretation.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Actually, we got five inspectors from two different FSDO's involved in this one. They all agreed. You want to press to test? Go ahead, but do so having been warned of the FAA's position on this.
 
Ron Levy said:
Actually, we got five inspectors from two different FSDO's involved in this one. They all agreed. You want to press to test? Go ahead, but do so having been warned of the FAA's position on this.
Click to expand...

No Levy, I haven't been warned by the FAA on this unless you are somehow trying to insinuate you represent the FAA, which you obviously don't.
 
Last edited:
Rotor&Wing said:
No Levy, I haven't been warned by the FAA on this unless you are somehow trying to insinuate you represent the FAA, which you obviously don't.
Click to expand...
You've been warned by me of the FAA's position. Choose wisely, and please don't misquote me.
 
.02 if the guy is on the runway it's his until he moes and traffic needs to avoid.

I have unitntentially caused a DC-9 to go around at a class C airport because I could not clear the runway fast enough.

On the other side if I put the 172RG on the runway it is full stop and reconfigure before a takeoff. If there is traffic I will pull off and taxi back but I will not do a touch and go. Trying to do too much too fast is not worth it.
 
RMCN172RG said:
.02 if the guy is on the runway it's his until he moes and traffic needs to avoid.

I have unitntentially caused a DC-9 to go around at a class C airport because I could not clear the runway fast enough.

On the other side if I put the 172RG on the runway it is full stop and reconfigure before a takeoff. If there is traffic I will pull off and taxi back but I will not do a touch and go. Trying to do too much too fast is not worth it.
Click to expand...

Back many years ago we use to take an empty B727 out to Dade Collier in the everglades to do aircraft training. Most of the patterns were land and taxi back but half of them we did touch and goes, which can be exciting in a 727 to say the least.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top