Stewart Systems

[tonycondon]

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/

I know ive seen mention of it by a few folks here. I talked with them at OSH and my big question is: "Is there ANY good reason to use Poly Fiber when this is an option?"

 

[Tom-D]

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/

I know ive seen mention of it by a few folks here. I talked with them at OSH and my big question is: "Is there ANY good reason to use Poly Fiber when this is an option?"

Simple answer NO!

But

You best get a starter kit and play with it before you invest big bucks.

 

[tonycondon]

tom,

for someone with a fair bit of experience with poly fiber, is it that much more difficult to do the Stewart system?

 

[stingray]

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/

I know ive seen mention of it by a few folks here. I talked with them at OSH and my big question is: "Is there ANY good reason to use Poly Fiber when this is an option?"

No!

I had them stop at Baraboo and give a small demonstration. It really opened some eyes. I have been using the system on my Cougar rebuild and plan on using it to paint a 170B and a Champ. If you think the covering is good stuff wait till you try the paint stripper. When you get done you can use it to wash your hands.

I will say it has a learning curve, I have been a painter professionally and you cannot paint the same way. It is all on timing you cannot go by feel like I am used to. If you did not get the DVD's they gave me permission to copy and distribute them.

Dan

 

[stingray]

tom,

for someone with a fair bit of experience with poly fiber, is it that much more difficult to do the Stewart system?

I would say the Stewart System is better for a beginner. You cannot make a mistake other than cutting the fabric. If you did not line things up right you just peal it back and do it again. If the fabric did not lay down you just hit it with the iron or add a little more glue.

Dan

 

[Tom-D]

tom,

for someone with a fair bit of experience with poly fiber, is it that much more difficult to do the Stewart system?

NO not dificult, different that's all you need to see what the system is, and how to use it.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

The fabric gluing and painting has been fine so far. Mixing (minimum 5 minutes of stirring, not shaking) to the DROP of water, air temp and humidity are critical. We did our first fill/primer layer on the fiberglass cowl yesterday and should top coat with Ag Cat yellow in a few days.

The top coat is bright, glossy & smoothe now. Ask me after it gets pounded in saltwater, sand and gravel for a few years how "good" it is.

 

[Maxmosbey]

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/

I know ive seen mention of it by a few folks here. I talked with them at OSH and my big question is: "Is there ANY good reason to use Poly Fiber when this is an option?"

Considering that I've already worked with Poly Fiber, and I'd like to check out this Stewart System to see how it works, I can't see any reason for you to use Poly Fiber. Besides, Poly Fiber uses too much MEK, and that stuff makes me sick.

 

[Trapper John]

Considering that I've already worked with Poly Fiber, and I'd like to check out this Stewart System to see how it works, I can't see any reason for you to use Poly Fiber. Besides, Poly Fiber uses too much MEK, and that stuff makes me sick.

MEK exposure is not a good thing. Lots of ventilation and use of a respirator is a must.

http://www.2spi.com/catalog/msds/msds02850.html


Trapper John

 

[Thomas]

Considering that I've already worked with Poly Fiber, and I'd like to check out this Stewart System to see how it works, I can't see any reason for you to use Poly Fiber. Besides, Poly Fiber uses too much MEK, and that stuff makes me sick.

What is the mek used for in the poly system?

 

[tonycondon]

pretty much of all of max's and i's experience with polyfiber is making patches. MEK to clean off the old fabric.

 

[Tom-D]

What is the mek used for in the poly system?

Stripper.

 

[Maxmosbey]

What is the mek used for in the poly system?

As already stated, it is used to strip off the old stuff in order to glue the patch to the fabric. Poly Fiber will also tell you that you can smooth out some of the coatings with it. They make it sound simple, but if you don't have the knack down for "smoothing" out Poly Fiber with MEK, or with the iron for that matter, you will just smear it around. I did an AD on a Taylorcraft where I had to cut into the fabric, then I had to patch over it. The airplane was a show plane, and I was following instructions to the letter. Even so, things kept getting worse instead of better, and the patch was getting bigger and bigger. I was on the phone with Poly Fiber, and they kept telling me that my iron was too hot, or too cold, depending on who I was talking to. Then I tried smoothing it out with MEK, and all I ended up doing was wiping the dope off again, or getting crap in my coating. I finally went against their advise, and wet sanded the edges around the patch and sprayed light coats to fill the voids. That worked better than anything, but it took forever. If I ever patch poly fiber again, I'll do it quite a bit different.

As far as MEK being bad for your health, there is do doubt that the stuff will kill you over time. I would like to follow all of those rules about respirators, and such, not just with MEK, but with a lot of chemicals. But in the shop, you use a dab of MEK to reactivate adhesives, or you squirt a little on a rag to wipe something down, or you do this with it or that, and it just doesn't work to walk around day in and day out wearing a respirator or gloves. If I'm going to sit over something and have a big open can of MEK by my side, I put on the gloves and a respirator, but most of the time I just try not to breath. I hate being around chemicals all of the time, and it is a fact of life if you are going to be an airplane mechanic. Any covering that does not subject me to even more chemicals than I have to be around every day, deserves my attention.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Stewart Systems has just set up a user discussion / Q&A forum. "Registration not required to 'lurk'."

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/forums/default.aspx

 

[tonycondon]

thanks for that Troy. reminds me i need to buy a quart of paint

 

[kyleb]

I missed this thread the first time around. I've been studying up on the Stewart system for several years. I've watched the videos, spoken with them at several Oshkoshes, SnF's, etc. I've sat through their forums at the shows as well.

At the end of the day, my take is that it is harder to produce reliably good results with Stewart's products than with Polytone (the vinyl based Polyfiber product). People eventually muddle through the process, but it seems that the margins for error on a number of variables (temperature, humidity, apparatus, setting, technique, etc.) are narrower than with Polytone.

I rarely hear of people having extremely frustrating problems getting a good finish with Polytone. I've heard a number of people who struggled with Stewart. This was highlighted at Oshkosh this year when I was asking one of the guys at the Stewart booth about some painted samples they were displaying. I forget the issue, but on one of the demo samples, the guy said the reason *this* sample didn't match *that* sample was because he had a "disaster" painting that one of 'em and had to redo it. I forget the exact nature of the disaster, but my take-away was that it was a chemistry/application error and that even the experts on the system have problems getting consistantly good results.

So, my bottom line comparing the systems is that the Polytone process is more reliable but relies on MEK, which is a nasty solvent. Stewarts, on the other hand, eliminates the need for MEK, but may not produce consistantly repeatable results.

Which will I use? Dunno. Apples and oranges.

 

[tonycondon]

i was pretty satisfied with the finish on my glider. BUT I followed the directions...

 

[AEROBAT]

I have a fabric job coming up and have been thinking of the Stewart system. I have recovered with Polyfiber before but was really worried about the fire hazard, when the dope was wet, plus the fumes.

 

[Tom-D]

I missed this thread the first time around. I've been studying up on the Stewart system for several years. I've watched the videos, spoken with them at several Oshkoshes, SnF's, etc. I've sat through their forums at the shows as well.

At the end of the day, my take is that it is harder to produce reliably good results with Stewart's products than with Polytone (the vinyl based Polyfiber product). People eventually muddle through the process, but it seems that the margins for error on a number of variables (temperature, humidity, apparatus, setting, technique, etc.) are narrower than with Polytone.

I rarely hear of people having extremely frustrating problems getting a good finish with Polytone. I've heard a number of people who struggled with Stewart. This was highlighted at Oshkosh this year when I was asking one of the guys at the Stewart booth about some painted samples they were displaying. I forget the issue, but on one of the demo samples, the guy said the reason *this* sample didn't match *that* sample was because he had a "disaster" painting that one of 'em and had to redo it. I forget the exact nature of the disaster, but my take-away was that it was a chemistry/application error and that even the experts on the system have problems getting consistantly good results.

So, my bottom line comparing the systems is that the Polytone process is more reliable but relies on MEK, which is a nasty solvent. Stewarts, on the other hand, eliminates the need for MEK, but may not produce consistantly repeatable results.

Which will I use? Dunno. Apples and oranges.

run the stewarts system all the way thru the ecofill, then shoot it with Randolph coatings or Airtech top coat.

 

[kyleb]

run the stewarts system all the way thru the ecofill, then shoot it with Randolph coatings or Airtech top coat.

I haven't read through all the STC's (or any of them beyond the one for Polyfiber), but I don't think that is covered by any current STC. Is there one which supports that approach?

 

[Tom-D]

I haven't read through all the STC's (or any of them beyond the one for Polyfiber), but I don't think that is covered by any current STC. Is there one which supports that approach?

After its dry, can you tell one ura product from another?

OBTW, the easiest of all the certified systems is Airtech. and it is the best finish of the big three.

Airtech,,,, after the fabric is on, tightened, the stitching is complete and the tapes are on, ( just like any other system) you apply 3 wet coats of the base primer, allow to dry over night and sand to the surface quality you want,then apply 1 wet coat of top coat and you are done.

no brushing, no silver, no problems with finish, plus it is fire and chemical proof, you can allow a fuel leak to stain it, then wipe it off with a rag dampened with 100LL, patching it is a simple sand and reapply. the best part of it, it is the lightest of the big three. (per yard)

the Stinson model "0" and my Fairchild 24 were finished with it.

Keep in mind that I Shot my 24 outside, on a warm day and it was dry to the touch in 15 minutes.

http://www.airtechcoatings.com/

 

[Tom-D]

Advantages of the big three fabric systems.....

Polytone has none, they were the best in the business 30 years ago. but no longer, their products are expensive, thinner now is $80 per gallon top coats are beyond that. see http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/cs/index.html for price lists.

Stewarts, cleans up with soap and water, their primer for metal works great and any portion you don't spray goes back in the can. Big advantage no waste.
Their Eco-Fill (the primer fabric filler) rolls, brushes or sprays easy and cleans up with soap and water.

Their top coats are not as easy to get a great finish as the other 2 competitors, but it can be done.

Big advantage with the Stewarts is no thinners or clean up agents (Cuts costs) and they do not stink, as the other two competitors.

Disadvantages of the big three.

Stewarts, You must learn to paint all over again, it requires many coats to fill the weave, and it lends its self to orange peel if you don't spray it correctly.

PolyFiber, it is the most expensive of the systems, requires a thinner for clean up, and requires many coats of three products, (Poly brush/tack) silver and a top coat. plus it is the heaviest of the three.

Airtech, requires a thinner but cleans up with acetone, the top coat has a problem with contaminates in the paint, it requires a hardener and an a accelerator, thinner and double filtration before you spray.

 

[bgdriveway]

As far as MEK being bad for your health, there is do doubt that the stuff will kill you over time. I would like to follow all of those rules about respirators, and such, not just with MEK, but with a lot of chemicals. But in the shop, you use a dab of MEK to reactivate adhesives, or you squirt a little on a rag to wipe something down, or you do this with it or that, and it just doesn't work to walk around day in and day out wearing a respirator or gloves. If I'm going to sit over something and have a big open can of MEK by my side, I put on the gloves and a respirator, but most of the time I just try not to breath. I hate being around chemicals all of the time, and it is a fact of life if you are going to be an airplane mechanic. Any covering that does not subject me to even more chemicals than I have to be around every day, deserves my attention.

That's why I like Acetone for most of that kind of work. Is it perfect, no, sometimes you need MEK. But nail polish remover ought to be less hazardous to your health..... And it doesn't strip paint as fast when you are trying to clean up a bit of a mess.