Steve Jobs: You're holding it wrong

mikea said:
...NO phone had a touch screen until the iPhone had it and showed them how it could/should be done...
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my old Palm Treo 600 had a touch screen long before iPhone showed up.
 
I don't really give a crap about Apple.

I'm waaaaay behind on technology. In my world, RCA connectors are still hot stuff.

I still REALLY like the iPhone. I don't understand all the sniping. "Oh, you think you're hot stuff, you have an iPhone, I don't want to talk to you."

BS. It's a good phone, I find it incredibly useful and user friendly. Full stop.

The only glaring omission, IMHO, is voice dialing. Add that and I'm satisfied.
 
mikea said:
Can you say 600dpi screen resolution?
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I don't know if any other phones had it, but many have better now.

NO phone had a touch screen until the iPhone had it and showed them how it could/should be done. Same with an app store.
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The HTC Wizard and the T-Mobile Wing were out years before the iPhone...
Finger zoom. If a phone has it, guess where they got it?
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Good call. Nothing else that I know of had it either.

I have two Windows phones had several Nokias I can tell you that the web browsing was unusable until it was done on the iPhone.
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That's an opinion. But I can for a fact say that many phones had web browsing before the iPhone. It was one of the few things that Windows Mobile did right, IMHO.

The spinning select thing is patented so nobody else is going to have it for quite a while.
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You mean the spinning wait thing that has been used in QBASIC programs for over 20 years?
 
alaskaflyer said:
It has voice dialing. At least mine does. But it ain't great.
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I'm still carrying the archaic original iPhone. I'm glad they put voice dial capability in. Hopefully they continue the research....

Regardless, I pulled the trigger last night. Should be arriving on my doorstep in 3-4 weeks. And yes, I bought the protective bumper!:wink2:
 
mikea said:
NO phone had a touch screen until the iPhone had it and showed them how it could/should be done.
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There were several touch screen phones. The most successful was the Motorola Ming. It had a Palm OS, was a very cool size, and worked without any problems. But thanks to a combination of licensing issues along with a few US operators that felt that smart phones were not for the US market it was sold everywhere but North America. Thankfully when it comes to phone sales NA actually was sucking pretty bad. Most sales were in Asia anyways. So having a phone that had full display/write Chinese character support made that model a huge success there. A Ming 2 came out a year or two before the iPhone and did pretty well. But by then the Palm OS had become dated. Nokia, HTC, and Samsung had come out with some nicer smart phone models. Nokia was rolling out Symbian. In the US and Japan Qulacomm's BREW technology was paving the way for the app store from Apple.

Apple did not do anything revolutionary from a technology stand point. But they succeeded in the usability area like no one else had. Post iPhone everyone was trying to copy that human interface model.
 
SkyHog said:
I don't know if any other phones had it, but many have better now.
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Like what? Droid X, Incredible, Evo 4G, and Nexus One are all in the 480x800 or 480x854 range, while the iphone 4 is 960x640 and in a slightly smaller package. Is there a king of screen resolution out there?

I don't think this is all that important, actually, and it's hardly a technological innovation, it's typically just an indication of which phone was released most recently, as these are all off-the-shelf.
The HTC Wizard and the T-Mobile Wing were out years before the iPhone...
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Stylus-based? Have we all figured out, now, that this was the wrong way to go? How did we learn that?
... But I can for a fact say that many phones had web browsing before the iPhone. It was one of the few things that Windows Mobile did right, IMHO.
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The web browsing on Windows Mobile was incredibly painful. I still have my old WM6 phone, I use it as an alarm clock. It's a pretty good alarm clock. When it was new, though, the alarm wouldn't go off if the phone was plugged in, but a software update came along a few months later and after that it was a pretty good alarm clock.
You mean the spinning wait thing that has been used in QBASIC programs for over 20 years?
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I think maybe he's talking about ipod?
-harry
 
flyersfan31 said:
A digital camera that beats stuff pros bought for $10k only a few years ago.

GPS capability that only the military had a few years ago that can pinpoint your location.

The ability to search your immediate location for pizza, get the phone number, dial it, and get pizza (Kent knows what I'm saying!)

A phone that can call someone on the other side of the world that fits in your shirtpocket? And we thought those briefcase-sized phones were less than 2 decades ago.

More computing power than an Apollo spacecraft.

The ability to check POA forums for posts about iPhones.

A tiny color screen that can display legitimate quality color TV and movies -- on a freakin' phone!!! Man, I remember the first color TV my family got and I thought that junky huge box was neat.

Game playing capability, like X-Plane. Shoot, I remember being flat-out astounded, thrilled, and mesmerized by Pong. When Intellivision came out I figured that was just the biggest deal since sliced bread (and beat my Atari all to hell). Now you have true flight physics on a little bitty phone.

This crap is mindblowing. If I have to buy a little protective case so the thing gets better reception, I sure as hell ain't going to complain. Perspective, baby, you need some perspective.
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A phone that allows a business to track your EVERY move! No thanks.....
 
SkyHog said:
...You mean the spinning wait thing that has been used in QBASIC programs for over 20 years?
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Spoken like somebody who never had one in his hands.

When you page through a long list it uses a pseudo acceleration so if you "spin" the list "harder" it goes faster. Imagine spinning the wheels on a slot machine. That UI also applies to "cover flow" where you flip through your songs. That's patented.

If you get your hands on one, be careful, Nick.

1409.gif
 
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tdager said:
A phone that allows a business to track your EVERY move! No thanks.....
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Then do not buy any phone. They all have that feature as it is required by law. Getting to that information can be a little tricky. But thanks to users who allow for non-privacy tracking it is getting easier.
 
JeffDG said:
Need more detail...any chance of getting that in a higher resolution?:hairraise:
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:D

Didn't resize it first. Probably because I'm on a Mac, and there is no "easy" way to resize a photo without having to import it into some program, resize it, and then export it to another program. :D
 
SkyHog said:
:D

Didn't resize it first. Probably because I'm on a Mac, and there is no "easy" way to resize a photo without having to import it into some program, resize it, and then export it to another program. :D
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Uhm. Open it in Preview. Tools -> Adjust Size
 
Heck, I just wish any of today's phones, smart or not, had the same quality sound and reception as my old Nokia 6110 had.

I haven't had a phone since that would pull in the signal as well or sounded as good. You can do a lot of things on a phone these days...except talk.
 
mantakos said:
... Should Apple offer ergonomic keyboards for free to everybody because a few people have some trouble typing on a regular one?...
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Funny analogy. Apple's the outfit that sells its computers without a keyboard.

jesse said:
...

The difference is that an Apple issue is BIG NEWS. ZOMG. PUT IT ON CNN RIGHT NOW!!!! Come on. Don't we have more important things to worry about?
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I keep meaning to ask: What's the "Z" in "ZOMG" stand for?

wabower said:
Has a tent city outside their door and a line around the block waiting for the doors to open when they start selling them?
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Nutshell.

mantakos said:
I can't think of a single feature that is unique to Angelina Jolie, either.
-harry
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(Pause for reverent reflection...)

mikea said:
Finger zoom. If a phone has it, guess where they got it?
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Inspired UI feature.

ScottM said:
...

Apple did not do anything revolutionary from a technology stand point. But they succeeded in the usability area like no one else had. Post iPhone everyone was trying to copy that human interface model.
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Isn't that really the bottom-line?

timwinters said:
Heck, I just wish any of today's phones, smart or not, had the same quality sound and reception as my old Nokia 6110 had.

I haven't had a phone since that would pull in the signal as well or sounded as good. You can do a lot of things on a phone these days...except talk.
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For that matter, why are we stuck with GSM, which has substantially-poorer sound quality, lots of dropped calls, and phones that make every audio device within close proximity sound like a machine-gun barrage?
 
SCCutler said:
For that matter, why are we stuck with GSM, which has substantially-poorer sound quality, lots of dropped calls, and phones that make every audio device within close proximity sound like a machine-gun barrage?
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Cost/bit is far lower than any other technology. For wireless voice services nothing comes close to GSM from a biz model perspective. Couple that with the global ubiquitousness of GSM and there is no other technology choice.

Dropped calls are not always a function of the technology but of the system planning. In the US systems have traditionally been designed around mobile, in vehicle, usage patterns. If you go to other countries, especially in Asia, where systems are designed for high denisty walkers and you get an entirely different experience.

In Hong Kong we would have to put antennas in elevator shafts to ensure coverage, in building microcells have been popular for years in Japan, China and Singapore. Coverage in tunnels was handled by repeaters pointing antennas into the structures, etc. In the US companies like PrimeCo would put 4 cellsites out to cover down town Chicago and then wonder why they had a lot of dropped calls and traffic channel blocking [/IDIOTS!]
 
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tdager said:
...The sad part is you cannot even turn it off!...
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Well, it's a legitimate concern, because the information is available, and you're dependent on Apple and other application providers to handle it in a sensible manner. Meanwhile, Apple is very vague about what they'll do with the data, and that lack of specificity isn't very compatible with "we entrust you with that data". So we're left trusting and guessing.

When an iPhone app asks the phone for its location, the phone puts up a box asking the user to approve the request, so no app can get your location without your approval (assuming app store apps, on jailbroken anything goes). We "trust" that Apple honors this. But once an app has that location information, it can send that information out into the world, and provide you with some location-based services (e.g. tell your friends where you are, find the nearest Taco Bell, etc.), and it can also go dig up some ads that are specific to your location (downloading a coupon for "Taco Tico", the nearby Taco Bell competitor). At this point, your information is in the hands of that app provider and their ad network.

The reason this is coming up now, I presume, is because Apple is launching their own ad network, and providing location-aware advertising, so that a location-aware app (i.e. one that has gotten your permission to determine its location) will be able to send that location to the Apple ad network. This isn't new functionality, it could have been done on other ad networks, it's new only in that Apple now has their own ad network to compete with the others.

Apple offers a way to opt-out of this location-aware and user-aware advertising, and if you opt-out, you'll just get generic ads. Again, though, you're trusting Apple to do something sensible when you've opted out, to discard any location data and not store it, though they don't specifically say that this is what they do.

Everything I just said is possible on any smart-phone, any phone with both a GPS and internet, and certainly applies just as well to Android. And even without a data subscription, cell phone carriers have the ability to determine your approximate, or possibly precise, location as well. So this comes down to "what do they do with it?", and, again, trust.
-harry
 
rpadula said:
:D They do now. My '88 "e" did not. The ones in the E39 have an epic failure rate. I guess the Germans just do not want us drinking and driving. The way it should be.
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Most other cultures scratch their heads at why we Americans want cupholders in our vehicles.
 
timwinters said:
Most other cultures scratch their heads at why we Americans want cupholders in our vehicles.
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I don't actually use mine. Rule in my car: no eating or drinking.

Amended: but I will bring home deck furniture in it with the top down.
 
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rpadula said:
Oh, do you drive a BMW? :ihih:
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Mrs Flyersfan31 does!! And those cupholders suck on toast.

HEY BMW -- WE HERE IN AMERICA DRINK REAL 12OZ SODAS, NOT THOSE CANDY ASS 330ML THINGS YOU EUROWEENIES CALL CANS! HOWZBOUT A CUPHOLDER THAT FITS A 12OZ, SINCE WE AMERICANS ARE APPARENTLY THE ONLY FOLKS IN THE WORLD WHO TAKE OUR HANDS OFF THE STEERING WHEEL?!!!

Do you think they heard me??
 
mantakos said:
Well, it's a legitimate concern, because the information is available, and you're dependent on Apple and other application providers to handle it in a sensible manner. Meanwhile, Apple is very vague about what they'll do with the data, and that lack of specificity isn't very compatible with "we entrust you with that data". So we're left trusting and guessing.

When an iPhone app asks the phone for its location, the phone puts up a box asking the user to approve the request, so no app can get your location without your approval (assuming app store apps, on jailbroken anything goes). We "trust" that Apple honors this. But once an app has that location information, it can send that information out into the world, and provide you with some location-based services (e.g. tell your friends where you are, find the nearest Taco Bell, etc.), and it can also go dig up some ads that are specific to your location (downloading a coupon for "Taco Tico", the nearby Taco Bell competitor). At this point, your information is in the hands of that app provider and their ad network.

The reason this is coming up now, I presume, is because Apple is launching their own ad network, and providing location-aware advertising, so that a location-aware app (i.e. one that has gotten your permission to determine its location) will be able to send that location to the Apple ad network. This isn't new functionality, it could have been done on other ad networks, it's new only in that Apple now has their own ad network to compete with the others.

Apple offers a way to opt-out of this location-aware and user-aware advertising, and if you opt-out, you'll just get generic ads. Again, though, you're trusting Apple to do something sensible when you've opted out, to discard any location data and not store it, though they don't specifically say that this is what they do.

Everything I just said is possible on any smart-phone, any phone with both a GPS and internet, and certainly applies just as well to Android. And even without a data subscription, cell phone carriers have the ability to determine your approximate, or possibly precise, location as well. So this comes down to "what do they do with it?", and, again, trust.
-harry
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Fair enough but a question...why am I getting ads at all? If I PAY for phone service and PAY for an App, why am I getting ads at all?
 
tdager said:
Fair enough but a question...why am I getting ads at all? If I PAY for phone service and PAY for an App, why am I getting ads at all?
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I have no idea how this iAd thing is going to work out but if I start getting unsolicited ads on my iPhone that I can't opt out of and if they in any way interfere with my normal use of the phone - that's a deal breaker for me.

I've been a Mac user since 1985, an iPhone user since it came out, and Mobile me has absolutely changed the way my family stays organized. Getting spammed with some pop-up ad in the middle of reading an email is going to send this thing to the trash. The DVR box on my TV has enabled me to develop a "no commercials or ads" life and my phone isn't going to change that.
 
flyersfan31 said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Mrs Flyersfan31 does!! And those cupholders suck on toast.

HEY BMW -- WE HERE IN AMERICA DRINK REAL 12OZ SODAS, NOT THOSE CANDY ASS 330ML THINGS YOU EUROWEENIES CALL CANS! HOWZBOUT A CUPHOLDER THAT FITS A 12OZ, SINCE WE AMERICANS ARE APPARENTLY THE ONLY FOLKS IN THE WORLD WHO TAKE OUR HANDS OFF THE STEERING WHEEL?!!!
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Only 12 oz? What kind of American are you?!?! We drink mondo HFCS-laden 64 oz Big Gulps here, buddy. A cupholder that could handle one of those babies would be worthy of German engineering.

flyersfan31 said:
Do you think they heard me??
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Nein.
 
tdager said:
Fair enough but a question...why am I getting ads at all? If I PAY for phone service and PAY for an App, why am I getting ads at all?
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The advertisement platform is designed so that the developers of the app can have advertisements in the application. I suspect there will be few paid applications that have advertisements. It's entirely up to the developer.

Developers already put advertisements in a lot of the free application. Not much will change - it just provides a "better" way for them to do that.
 
tdager said:
Fair enough but a question...why am I getting ads at all? If I PAY for phone service and PAY for an App, why am I getting ads at all?
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I believe the idea is to put the ads in the Free apps.
 
I've been using the device on and off for a few days and I'm underwhelmed. The device feels more iterative than anything else; versus something new and organic.

Battery life is even worse than before, though; it's actually worse than my Nexus One (which isn't all that great on battery to begin with)

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
It isn't Apple that's looking to put ads on your phone, nor AT&T. You're not going to be dialing a number one day, and see an ad pop up with a suggestion of a better number to dial.

Today, developers of app store apps sometimes include advertising as a way of generating revenue for their work, something that the fees we pay to Apple and AT&T don't cover. Those developers typically don't want to be in the business of finding advertisers, so they work with "third-party" ad networks that hook up the advertisers with the apps. When the app draws a screen, it fetches an ad from its associated ad network, much like a web server fetches advertising to stick in the web pages it spits out. Apple wants to get in on that "ad network" action and take their cut. They also want to encourage free apps funded through advertising, as opposed to purchase fees.

Now, whenever an ad is placed somewhere, the ad network has to choose a "good" ad to put there, one you're likely to bite on, it's sort of like fishing. So they want to know as much information about you as possible. They want to know who you are, your gender, your age, what your interests are, what you're looking to buy, where you are, etc. All of this is helpful in choosing an ad to stick in front of your face, one you're less likely to ignore.

So if you used a real estate app yesterday, and you're using a map program today to find an address for a meeting, the ad network might like to give you an ad for a local realtor, and then an ad for a lunch place around the corner. You're much more likely to click-through on these ads than some generic ad for a Thigh-Master or something (though this might be a good ad choice if you've been using a diet/exercise app recently).

This is why, for instance, google wants to know everything about you. Because while we think that they're an internet company, they're actually an advertising company.
-harry
 
tdager said:
Fair enough but a question...why am I getting ads at all? If I PAY for phone service and PAY for an App, why am I getting ads at all?
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There will be ads because most of the apps you have cost $0.00 and others were $0.99.

It was discovered recently after some tragic episodes that programmers have to be fed.
 
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