Static RPM Test

Ron Levy said:
That's not from a C-172S POH/AFM. Cessna never built a C-172S with a Continental O-470 engine.
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Show me the content difference, the flight manual only gives the maximum allowable numbers in any aircraft.

the POH or the flight manual never shows the Static RPMs, or what is airworthy.

so show me the page that will..
 
Ron Levy said:
Quite sure -- he has a combined POH/AFM for his post-1977 airplane. And 14 CFR 91.7(a) quite clearly requires that the limitations in the AFM be adhered to.
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I'll agree with that, now show me the POH or a Flight manual that gives anything but the number you must not exceed. they never give the static range for airworthiness that the OP was asking for.

50% the TCDS will
 
Tom-D said:
I'll agree with that, now show me the POH or a Flight manual that gives anything but the number you must not exceed. they never give the static range for airworthiness that the OP was asking for.

50% the TCDS will
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The POH for the C162 states the static RPM range for the O200D as 2375-2475. That is in section 2 under "Powerplant Limitations". You can find the POH for the C162 at www.cessna.com
 
vintage cessna said:
The POH for the C162 states the static RPM range for the O200D as 2375-2475. That is in section 2 under "Powerplant Limitations". You can find the POH for the C162 at www.cessna.com
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Here is a better link:
https://support.cessna.com/docs/custsupt/cessnasupport/documents/162PHUS.pdf

That is certainly a brand new format for a brand new type certificate on a brand new aircraft.

this is particularly interesting

INTRODUCTION CESSNA MODEL 162 GARMIN G300
WARNINGS, CAUTIONS AND NOTES
Throughout the text, warnings, cautions and notes pertaining to airplane handling and operations are utilized. These adjuncts to the text are used to highlight or emphasize important points.
WARNING
OPERATING PROCEDURES, TECHNIQUES, ETC., WHICH CAN RESULT IN PERSONAL INJURY OR LOSS OF LIFE IF NOT CAREFULLY FOLLOWED.
CAUTION
OPERATION PROCEDURES, TECHNIQUES, ETC., WHICH CAN RESULT IN DAMAGE TO EQUIPMENT IF NOT CAREFULLY FOLLOWED.
NOTE
An operating procedure, technique, etc., which is considered essential to emphasize.

and here is the quote mentioned above.

POWERPLANT LIMITATIONS
Engine Manufacturer: Teledyne Continental Motors Engine Model Number: O-200-D
Maximum Power: 100 BHP Rating
CESSNA MODEL 162 GARMIN G300
Engine Operating Limits for Takeoff and Continuous Operations: Maximum Engine Speed:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2750 RPM
NOTE
The static RPM range at full throttle with carburetor heat off and mixture leaned to maximum RPM is 2375 - 2475 RPM. For allowable variations in static RPM at non-standard temperatures, refer to the 162 Maintenance Manual.


Maximum Oil Temperature: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .240°F (116°C) Oil Pressure,
Minimum: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .10 Maximum: ............................100PSI

but notice other than the note giving the RPMs all other numbers are a never exceed
 
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BTW-
Here are the mentioned pages
 

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Jaybird180 said:
I think I'll just email McCauley
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Just take it that static should theoretically drop in lower DA due to drag increasing more than the engine can overcome... Like I told my math professor, "I'll assume a horse is a sphere if it makes the math easy, I'm in engineering school" In practice when you just lean for max RPM it should be "close" year round and always fall within range. Mechanical tachs are notoriously inaccurate. Bum an optical one off somebody at the airport every once in a while or get a cheap one on the internet.
 
Jaybird180 said:
BTW-
Here are the mentioned pages
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all that page tells you is the maximum rpm for the engine, not the static rpm that should be the airworthiness requirements.
To compel with that limit all you must do is never exceed it during flight.
 
Tom-D said:
all that page tells you is the maximum rpm for the engine, not the static rpm that should be the airworthiness requirements.
To compel with that limit all you must do is never exceed it during flight.
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The 2nd page he posted mentions static RPM specifically and gives the range.
 
Tom-D said:
all that page tells you is the maximum rpm for the engine, not the static rpm that should be the airworthiness requirements.
To compel with that limit all you must do is never exceed it during flight.
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No sir. 2-5 says that max rpm is 2700
 
bartmc said:
Just take it that static should theoretically drop in lower DA due to drag increasing more than the engine can overcome... Like I told my math professor, "I'll assume a horse is a sphere if it makes the math easy, I'm in engineering school" In practice when you just lean for max RPM it should be "close" year round and always fall within range. Mechanical tachs are notoriously inaccurate. Bum an optical one off somebody at the airport every once in a while or get a cheap one on the internet.
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No, I have a reason to know (or how to obtain) the calibration factor.
 
Jaybird180 said:
No sir. 2-5 says that max rpm is 2700
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THat is all you have in the POH / AFM is that number that is a never exceed limit, it is not an airworthy requirement.
your TCDS is 3A12

it gives your requirements on section XII and this is a copy and paste

XII - Model 172S, Skyhawk SP, 4 PCLM (Normal Category), 2 PCLM (Utility Category), Approved May 1, 1998

Engine Limits Propeller
Propeller Limits Airspeed Limits
C.G. Range
Lycoming IO-360-L2A, Rated 180 Horsepower 100/100LL minimum grade aviation gasoline For all operations, 2,700 RPM
(a) McCauley Model 1A170E/JHA7660
(b) Spinner: Drawing No. 0550236
Static RPM at full throttle: Not over 2400; Not Under 2300 Diameter: Not over 76 inches; not under 75 inches

IOWs the A&P-IA doing the required run up after the annual, must see the Static RPM numbers before they can declare the aircraft airworthy. Those numbers have nothing to do with the POH/AFM saying you can't exceed the 2700 maximum in flight.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
I had no idea who he was and had to look him up. Why the question? I don't get the reference. Inside joke???
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If you ever wake up with the TV on on Sunday morning, Jack Van Impe is televangelist that apparently has memorized the entire bible. Book, Chapter and Verse. :D
 
Tom-D said:
THat is all you have in the POH / AFM is that number that is a never exceed limit, it is not an airworthy requirement.
your TCDS is 3A12

it gives your requirements on section XII and this is a copy and paste

XII - Model 172S, Skyhawk SP, 4 PCLM (Normal Category), 2 PCLM (Utility Category), Approved May 1, 1998

Engine Limits Propeller
Propeller Limits Airspeed Limits
C.G. Range
Lycoming IO-360-L2A, Rated 180 Horsepower 100/100LL minimum grade aviation gasoline For all operations, 2,700 RPM
(a) McCauley Model 1A170E/JHA7660
(b) Spinner: Drawing No. 0550236
Static RPM at full throttle: Not over 2400; Not Under 2300 Diameter: Not over 76 inches; not under 75 inches

IOWs the A&P-IA doing the required run up after the annual, must see the Static RPM numbers before they can declare the aircraft airworthy. Those numbers have nothing to do with the POH/AFM saying you can't exceed the 2700 maximum in flight.
Click to expand...

His POH (Pic 2) page 2-5 says static RPM range at maximum throttle 2300-2400 RPM. The first page he posted has nothing to do with static, the 2nd has everything to do with static.
 
Tom-D said:
THat is all you have in the POH / AFM is that number that is a never exceed limit, it is not an airworthy requirement.
your TCDS is 3A12

it gives your requirements on section XII and this is a copy and paste

XII - Model 172S, Skyhawk SP, 4 PCLM (Normal Category), 2 PCLM (Utility Category), Approved May 1, 1998

Engine Limits Propeller
Propeller Limits Airspeed Limits
C.G. Range
Lycoming IO-360-L2A, Rated 180 Horsepower 100/100LL minimum grade aviation gasoline For all operations, 2,700 RPM
(a) McCauley Model 1A170E/JHA7660
(b) Spinner: Drawing No. 0550236
Static RPM at full throttle: Not over 2400; Not Under 2300 Diameter: Not over 76 inches; not under 75 inches

IOWs the A&P-IA doing the required run up after the annual, must see the Static RPM numbers before they can declare the aircraft airworthy. Those numbers have nothing to do with the POH/AFM saying you can't exceed the 2700 maximum in flight.
Click to expand...
Highlighted for you
 
bartmc said:
His POH (Pic 2) page 2-5 says static RPM range at maximum throttle 2300-2400 RPM. The first page he posted has nothing to do with static, the 2nd has everything to do with static.
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The first page was related to a statement that a specific prop was not specified, so I posted it.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Highlighted for you
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I gotta start reading the whole thing. Da. ya live, ya learn, what doesn't kill ya makes ya smarter.

So after the restart of production of the 172 and 182 the static RPM requirement is given in the POH/AFM what is the question of airworthiness all about?
 
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Tom-D said:
I gotta start reading the whole thing. Da. ya live, ya learn, what doesn't kill ya makes ya smarter.

So after the restart of production of the 172 and 182 the static RPM requirement is given in the POH/AFM what is the question of airworthiness all about?
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Nahh, don't do that, just read the title, make assumptions and rant away. It's the internet after all. :D
 
Tom-D said:
I gotta start reading the whole thing. Da. ya live, ya learn, what doesn't kill ya makes ya smarter.
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Yes, Tom, you do, especially since it's something an IA like you is required both to know and to check on all fixed pitch prop aircraft during annual.

So after the restart of production of the 172 and 182 the static RPM requirement is given in the POH/AFM
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For the 172, yes, the TCDS data are echoed in the POH/AFM. For the 182, there is no static RPM range because it has a constant speed prop.

what is the question of airworthiness all about?
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It's about determining whether the aircraft is in conformity with its type certificate, and the static RPM range is a type certificate requirement stated in the TCDS.
 
Ron Levy said:
Yes, Tom, you do, especially since it's something an IA like you is required both to know and to check on all fixed pitch prop aircraft during annual.
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I do exactly that, and I use the TCDS not the flight manual as a return to service reference you have made the point that there are 1 or 2 type certificates that give the static RPM, but in reality prior to the R&S the majority don't. The 172 R&S are on the same TCDS as all other 172 (3A12) and none of them have AFMs

Ron Levy said:
For the 172, yes, the TCDS data are echoed in the POH/AFM. For the 182, there is no static RPM range because it has a constant speed prop.
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Check the Prop type certificate it will have all the data that the prop must comply with during and phase of use. they didn't place that in the AFM because the pilot will never see the highest blade angle or the lowest RPM of the prop but it still have a the highest RPM limit given.

Ron Levy said:
about determining whether the aircraft is in conformity with its type certificate, and the static RPM range is a type certificate requirement stated in the TCDS.
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That's the point I made way back in this thread, the AFM is not the proper reference to use as a return to service IAW FAR 43. plus the excepted definition of airworthiness does not mention the AFM but it does mention the type certificate and the properly altered condition.
 
Ron Levy said:
For the 172, yes, the TCDS data are echoed in the POH/AFM. For the 182, there is no static RPM range because it has a constant speed prop.
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You are right, because it is given by blade angle. Unless you carry a prop protractor around with you, you will never be able to read it. so why place it in the AFM.?

That is on the TCDS. use to determine airworthiness
 
Ron Levy said:
McCauley has nothing to do with it. They just build the prop, and the static RPM limiation for that prop may vary between installations.
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Hoping they have the math. Interestingly, as I'm surfing Lycoming's site, they don't list DA as a factor for static rpm issues in their troubleshooting guide.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Hoping they have the math. Interestingly, as I'm surfing Lycoming's site, they don't list DA as a factor for static rpm issues in their troubleshooting guide.
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McCalley writes the overhaul/maintenance manual for their props, in those manuals they tell the Prop shops what angle to set the blade stops, then the engine manufacturer sets the upper RPM limit for the engine, and the installing A&P sets the governor to the upper limit for the installation. (IAW the TCDS)

So, in flight the governor is the controlling factor, and when you shove the prop knob all the way in, and the throttle all the way in, the RPM will go directly to the upper RPM limit set at the governor.

you can get that limit on the ground.(static)
 
the static rpm test is a good indicator of your power output. generally when the engine is good, the static rpm can vary between 2250 and 3350 depending on the propeller. if you have a propeller that will turn 2700 rpm (presuming a continental 0-300) at full power low altitude, level flight for at least one minute, you have the average propeller.
there were options on the prop. if it turns 2250 static on the ground, check every takeoff for about the same rpm after full power is established and the aircraft is going down the runway. this is a valuable safety check. if you mistakenly have it on a single mag, the rpm will be about 100 lower. if you left the carburetor heat on, it will be more than 100. either is a good reason to abort the takeoff and do a check to find out what is wrong .another good check is to see a good drop when carburetor heat is applied. if it doesent, you have a dirty intake filter or a problem with the heat control. (note, lycoming engines have very low drop if any with carb heat.
 
Skylane81E said:
Well on JBs 172 there is no gov
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This is the statement that prompted that response.

Originally Posted by Ron Levy
For the 172, yes, the TCDS data are echoed in the POH/AFM. For the 182, there is no static RPM range because it has a constant speed prop.
 
Tom-D said:
This is the statement that prompted that response.

Originally Posted by Ron Levy
For the 172, yes, the TCDS data are echoed in the POH/AFM. For the 182, there is no static RPM range because it has a constant speed prop.
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I understand
 
Tom- I thought it was clear from the early posts that we were talking about a Fixed Pitch prop. Don't beat the FP/ CS not-pick issue in this thread please. I'm honestly trying to solve a problem, that um....allegedly my friend's plane has.
 
Tom-D said:
I do exactly that, and I use the TCDS not the flight manual as a return to service reference you have made the point that there are 1 or 2 type certificates that give the static RPM, but in reality prior to the R&S the majority don't. The 172 R&S are on the same TCDS as all other 172 (3A12)
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They are not all on the 3A12 type certificate.
and none of them have AFMs
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Every aircraft manufactured since 1978 is required to have an approved flight manual, and that includes every 172R/S, as well as the P's and Q's, and many or all (not sure) of the N's.

You really need to get this stuff right if you're an IA, because making sure the AFM is there, correct, and complete is part of your job on an annual.
 
Tom-D said:
McCalley writes the overhaul/maintenance manual for their props, in those manuals they tell the Prop shops what angle to set the blade stops, then the engine manufacturer sets the upper RPM limit for the engine, and the installing A&P sets the governor to the upper limit for the installation. (IAW the TCDS)
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Good luck finding blade stops or a governor on Jaybird's Cessna 172S.
 
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