Starting to consider a homebuilt...

dans2992

dans2992

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Dans2992
After demoing the Garmin G3X touch at Oshkosh, my jaw hit the floor when I saw the prices (in a good way).

http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/prices

I mean, for the price of one measly certified Aspen screen (installed), I could have a 3 screen G3X touch!!!

Wow... I'm going to have to consider homebuilts more seriously. Right now, I have a family requirement to haul 5 folks, and homebuilts of that size are going to be 7 figures, but someday I will be able to get by with a 4-place (or even two).

--Dan
 
Is there any concern of a regulatory "crackdown" on EAB? For example, restricting operations at certain airports, etc?

I've heard of people who make a living building and selling RVs, and I'm thinking the government must not like that very much....
 
Also, the primary 4-seat home built I drool over is the Lancair IV-P. The number of engine failures and crashes of that model give me pause, however.

Glasair III or Legacy would also be nice, but going 2-seat is a ways off for me.

I'd want de-ice and preferably turbo as well.
 
dans2992 said:
Is there any concern of a regulatory "crackdown" on EAB? For example, restricting operations at certain airports, etc?

I've heard of people who make a living building and selling RVs, and I'm thinking the government must not like that very much....
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I'd say no. In fact the EAB category seems to be expanding with the US probably having the least restrictive environment in the world.

There has been a bit of a crackdown on 'professional builders' who stretched the already rather lenient rules on EAB a bit too far. The practice continues but with a bit more scrutiny.

If you want to build a kit plane yourself, no problem. If you want to buy a finished experimental plane no problem, you just won't have the Repairman's certificate for it and will require a certified mechanic to complete annual inspections. That's it.

The answer is an RV10, what is it that you want to do? :yes:
 
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I don't have the time/skill to build one. I would be buying one already made.

I don't mind hiring a mechanic to do annual inspections (in fact, I would want a second set of eyes on it even if I did have the repairman certificate.)

What do I want to do with it? Go fast and far for a reasonable price.

Has anyone put de-ice on an RV-10 that you know of?
 
dans2992 said:
After demoing the Garmin G3X touch at Oshkosh, my jaw hit the floor when I saw the prices (in a good way).

http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/prices

I mean, for the price of one measly certified Aspen screen (installed), I could have a 3 screen G3X touch!!!

Wow... I'm going to have to consider homebuilts more seriously. Right now, I have a family requirement to haul 5 folks, and homebuilts of that size are going to be 7 figures, but someday I will be able to get by with a 4-place (or even two).
--Dan
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Amazing, isn't it? A great autopilot runs under $2K... compare that! Mine, used, was $800.
You should have checked out Dynon's gear, maybe you did. Full glasss with complete engine monitor, synthetic vision, autopilot etc for a few grand. Amazing gear.
 
So... WTF is the FAA doing to these manufacturers to drive up the cost on the certified stuff?

Will the "Part 23 rewrite" bring things more in line, do you think?
 
Can't wait for the part 23 rewrite. Will bring competition into the market place,for most aviation products.
 
You can get the G3x and the GTN 750 along with all the other Garmin goodies, autopilot, ADS-B, 3D sound and a choice between a turbo diesel and a gas engine in the new Flight Design certified C4. And 1320lbs useful load to boot.
 
CTLSi said:
You can get the G3x and the GTN 750 along with all the other Garmin goodies, autopilot, ADS-B, 3D sound and a choice between a turbo diesel and a gas engine in the new Flight Design certified C4. And 1320lbs useful load to boot.
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When are they expecting to actually start delivering those beauties?
 
dans2992 said:
Has anyone put de-ice on an RV-10 that you know of?
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Not that we know of. There are five or so for sale in Controller right now. Many of our -10 crashes were due to builder error, most were easily preventable if they had stuck to the plans and more thorough inspections were requested upon completion. I had 10 guys look mine over and I am an ex A&P(jets/heli). If you stick close to the manufacturer's design and recommendations, you will have a better chance of survival. Enjoy your EAB search, they are a blast.

http://www.controller.com/Default.aspx
 
dans2992 said:
Is there any concern of a regulatory "crackdown" on EAB? For example, restricting operations at certain airports, etc?

I've heard of people who make a living building and selling RVs, and I'm thinking the government must not like that very much....
Click to expand...

There is no "crack down" on EAB restricting them from airports that I am aware of. Which airports are they restricted at?
 
Geico266 said:
There is no "crack down" on EAB restricting them from airports that I am aware of. Which airports are they restricted at?
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A few years ago, there was a call to restrict them at KVGT after a couple crashes. Ultimately, it didn't go anywhere...
 
dans2992 said:
A few years ago, there was a call to restrict them at KVGT after a couple crashes. Ultimately, it didn't go anywhere...
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Our local rules say no building or painting, but final assembly is okay. I understand their reasoning. Who wants fiberglass dust, chemicals and paints in the hangar next to them with open trusses at the top. Not me. I built mine in our two car garage and spent two months on final assembly at the airport.
 
RV10flyer said:
Our local rules say no building or painting, but final assembly is okay. I understand their reasoning. Who wants fiberglass dust, chemicals and paints in the hangar next to them with open trusses at the top. Not me. I built mine in our two car garage and spent two months on final assembly at the airport.
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I'm more concerned about where they can be operated once building/testing is complete.

Currently, there appear to not really be any restrictions, but there is likely a contingent of the public pushing for them, which would make me wonder.
 
dukeblue219 said:
When are they expecting to actually start delivering those beauties?
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$60K question. FD at Airventure last week:

"The C4, which is being used as "the guinea pig" to help guide the rewrite of the Part 23 rules in both Europe and the U.S., will be certified on time in summer 2015, Flight Design Technical Director Oliver Reinhardt said at AirVenture."


FD has their proof of concept plane now and are flying it later in the month. They are also building four others for crash testing etc. They say they are gonna get EASA cert in Q1 of 2015.

Maybe first production planes by summer 2015?
 
dans2992 said:
Example - this is what makes me nervous about owning an EAB:

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/...t-must-have-access-to-airspace-AOPA-tells-FAA

http://m.reviewjournal.com/news/airport-neighbors-have-few-options
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So what has happened since these articles were written in 2006/2008? I was restricted in phase 1 to 75 nm and no flights over congested areas(I agree). Since then, I have been welcomed all over the eastern US. Maybe we will go out west next year before they shut down all controlled airports to us EAB's.
 
I'd wait for part 23 re-write. Saving 10-30K for an EFIS suite is not worth the 150K acquisition delta to move your mission to an RV-10 vice a PA-24. The maintenance and operating cost delta is nowhere near high enough to justify such a jump in acquisition cost.
 
I'm not jumping into anything yet... Just "looking" at this point.

I like my PA24, but would look for turbo, de-ice and pressurization in the next plane... I think the Malibu would suit me perfectly, but not ready to make a move just yet.
 
dans2992 said:
I'm more concerned about where they can be operated once building/testing is complete.

Currently, there appear to not really be any restrictions, but there is likely a contingent of the public pushing for them, which would make me wonder.
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Complete nonsense and hand wringing over nothing. I've flown in 49 states, most multiple times, all in experimentals. There are no restrictions once the plane passes the phase one testing program.
 
dans2992 said:
I'm not jumping into anything yet... Just "looking" at this point.

I like my PA24, but would look for turbo, de-ice and pressurization in the next plane... I think the Malibu would suit me perfectly, but not ready to make a move just yet.
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How many EAB are comparable to a Malibu?
 
bnt83 said:
How many EAB are comparable to a Malibu?
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Not many that I know of and even then you would drop to 4 seats.
Maybe Lancair 4p and Lancair evolution.
Any 6 seat experimentals?
 
www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/CA6/

Only one I know of. I think there is a chopper?

The Moose too:
http://www.pattersonaerosales.com/Aircraft/Moose/MooseDesc.html

I don't believe homebuilding was ever intended to compete with complex, hard IFR, multiseat aircraft. The turbine Lancairs do it, but in a tight package of 4 seats. Had a hot Lancair pass me one time when I thought I was moving pretty good. Wasn't the turbine model but still went right under me doing well over 200 kts.
 
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The NTSB says EAB are 10% of aircraft being flown, but sadly are over 15% of all fatal accidents.
 
CTLSi said:
The NTSB says EAB are 10% of aircraft being flown, but sadly are over 15% of all fatal accidents.
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This is likely due to both a variation in construction of some systems such as fuel and electrical in particular, combined with airframes which are typically of higher performance.
 
if you restrict your homebuilt to 4 seats, how is that dissimilar from a malibu ?
 
FORANE said:
This is likely due to both a variation in construction of some systems such as fuel and electrical in particular, combined with airframes which are typically of higher performance.
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Ron has provided data ad nauseum on this subject. Many are first flight screwups, many are deviations, as noted above and many are buyers without the piloting skills appropriate to the aircraft. All skew the numbers to make it look like the aircraft are the problem.
 
JHW said:
if you restrict your homebuilt to 4 seats, how is that dissimilar from a malibu ?
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A Malibu has 6 seats. One of my current missions is 5 people. One of them is 35 lbs, and everyone else is less than FAA standard.

Realistically, I'm not doing anything for at least 1-2 years.

But hey, I need to have a next aircraft in mind as a "goal". :)

Currently, I'm a partner in the Comanche. I'd maybe look at a Malibu with one other partner, or possibly keep the Comanche share and have a fast 2-place for business travel. Not sure that would pass the "wife-test though... ;)

At this point, it's just tire kicking...
 
FORANE said:
This is likely due to both a variation in construction of some systems such as fuel and electrical in particular, combined with airframes which are typically of higher performance.
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Actually if you delve into it the higher accident rate is related more to pilot error than mechanical failure. Typically either stupid pilot tricks or pilots not prepared to fly something not as benign as a 172 and getting way behind the aircraft.
 
tsts4 said:
Actually if you delve into it the higher accident rate is related more to pilot error than mechanical failure. Typically either stupid pilot tricks or pilots not prepared to fly something not as benign as a 172 and getting way behind the aircraft.
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Absolutely agree. I own a Lancair and have said on many occasions I would have crashed on first flight without competent transition training.

They are not as benign as a 172 by a far stretch...
http://youtu.be/MJm8-iABtSA
 
FORANE said:
Absolutely agree. I own a Lancair and have said on many occasions I would have crashed on first flight without competent transition training.
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What type of Lancair?
 
I see by your profile pic that it must be a 360 or Legacy?
 
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