Starter Failure

Soldier64

Soldier64

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
257
Location
Fort Rucker, AL
Display Name
Display name:
Bill H.
Good morning, POA. I have a 1975 PA28R-200 that the starter decided to go out on and leave me stranded in Oklahoma. I have already left the plane there and drove home.

My question to you all is what starter should I have them put on the airplane? I have read some good and bad things but I was leaning toward the Sky-Tec 149-NL.

What say you?
 
Timbeck2 said:
I say you have chosen a good one to lean towards.
Click to expand...

Yup. It's the best.

But they should first make sure that it really is the starter. What was the failure mode? Mechanical or electrical? Starters often fail because the master and/or starter contactor contacts are oxidized, making enough resistance that the cranking voltage drops enormously with high current flow. And contactors are a lot cheaper, and easier to replace, than starters. A simple voltage drop measurement across the big terminals will identify a bad contactor.
 
Last edited:
I bought a SkyTec for my 180, same make and model you reference. It's WAY better than the bendix POS I had in there before.

I went the route Dan suggested and did an overhaul on the Bendix and replaced the battery, still no go.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Yup. It's the best.

But they should first make sure that it really is the starter. What was the failure mode? Mechanical or electrical? Starters often fail because the master and/or starter contactor contacts are oxidized, making enough resistance that the cranking voltage drops enormously with high current flow. And contactors are a lot cheaper, and easier to replace, than starters. A simple voltage drop measurement across the big terminals will identify a bad contactor.
Click to expand...

I can tell you what happened, but I am 800 miles from the airplane so I can't do much more than that.

When I turned the key the starter engaged. On the compression stroke it slowed down slightly and then the prop went the opposite direction of rotation like it had been let free. Not a kickback style reverse or anything. I engaged the started again and nothing happened. No noise from the starter at all. When I checked the started the throw our bearing was engaged with the flywheel but was free spinning and sort of floating. My only thought was that the shaft broke. I could be wrong though.
 
Soldier64 said:
I can tell you what happened, but I am 800 miles from the airplane so I can't do much more than that.

When I turned the key the starter engaged. On the compression stroke it slowed down slightly and then the prop went the opposite direction of rotation like it had been let free. Not a kickback style reverse or anything. I engaged the started again and nothing happened. No noise from the starter at all. When I checked the started the throw our bearing was engaged with the flywheel but was free spinning and sort of floating. My only thought was that the shaft broke. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

The starter gear stays extended and won't retract until it goes over a certain RPM (that you normally get to when the engine starts). Its probably too little too late now, but did you check the starter circuit breaker and/or fuse?
 
FredFenster said:
The starter gear stays extended and won't retract until it goes over a certain RPM (that you normally get to when the engine starts). Its probably too little too late now, but did you check the starter circuit breaker and/or fuse?
Click to expand...

I did check everything and the gear was basically hanging out there. I was unfortunately short on time and had to get on the road. Also small airport and no one was there.
 
Soldier64 said:
I can tell you what happened, but I am 800 miles from the airplane so I can't do much more than that.

When I turned the key the starter engaged. On the compression stroke it slowed down slightly and then the prop went the opposite direction of rotation like it had been let free. Not a kickback style reverse or anything. I engaged the started again and nothing happened. No noise from the starter at all. When I checked the started the throw our bearing was engaged with the flywheel but was free spinning and sort of floating. My only thought was that the shaft broke. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

No starter contactor clunk or anything? Might have a failed ignition switch. The ACS switches have an AD on them due to starter contacts burning out inside them. 93-05-06: http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...B8ABD56539B4684886256A3E00759DBF?OpenDocument
 
Was there no person there willing to hand-prop your engine so you could fly home?

-Skip
 
Soldier64 said:
I can tell you what happened, but I am 800 miles from the airplane so I can't do much more than that.

When I turned the key the starter engaged. On the compression stroke it slowed down slightly and then the prop went the opposite direction of rotation like it had been let free. Not a kickback style reverse or anything. I engaged the started again and nothing happened. No noise from the starter at all. When I checked the started the throw our bearing was engaged with the flywheel but was free spinning and sort of floating. My only thought was that the shaft broke. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the same failure my 29 year old starter had on my Archer. The solution was a new Sky Tec that was some 5 years ago and have never regretted the decision.
 
My prestolite did that. Went with a B&C Starter. My understanding is the B&C starter has real bearings in it.
 
Sky-Tec good! Is what we use.
I would tell you how good but i never brag on airplane parts,,,ever. :no: :D
 
I read reports by guys with the Skytec XLT series that are unhappy. My new motor will have the HT series. I have no Skytec experience but the pireps on the HT have been good. My last Cub had a B&C and that one was perfect.
 
The NL series gets good reviews in the RV community. Mine has performed well since it replaced the old Prestolite a couple of years ago.
 
Sorry for the delay in response. Yes, the field was completely empty. We were the only plane on the ramp as well. The closest A&P has to drive from an airport 40 miles away to go fix the thing. I bought the 149-NL last night to get shipped over to them. I'll let you all know what I think of it when I get the airplane.

Thanks for all the help!
 
kyleb said:
Didn't he say the field was deserted?
Click to expand...

Not a 2 person job.. just tie the tail down.


That brings up a question. How to prime a fuel injected plane for hand propping. My guess for a cold start.. prime as usual, leave the mixture rich and cut the fuel pump off. Flip through 2-3 times to pull fuel into the cylinders with the ignition off. Then turn on the mags and prop it.
 
Last edited:
Soldier64 said:
Sorry for the delay in response. Yes, the field was completely empty. We were the only plane on the ramp as well. The closest A&P has to drive from an airport 40 miles away to go fix the thing. I bought the 149-NL last night to get shipped over to them. I'll let you all know what I think of it when I get the airplane.

Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

What airport? Anywhere near OKC?
 
dell30rb said:
Not a 2 person job.. just tie the tail down.


That brings up a question. How to prime a fuel injected plane for hand propping. My guess for a cold start.. prime as usual, leave the mixture rich and cut the fuel pump off. Flip through 2-3 times to pull fuel into the cylinders with the ignition off. Then turn on the mags and prop it.
Click to expand...

You know, I thought about it, but having never done it I wasn't sure how it would work out. It is on my list of things to learn how to do when I get the plane back.

RussR said:
What airport? Anywhere near OKC?
Click to expand...
Its at the Henryetta airport F10.
 
Soldier64 said:
You know, I thought about it, but having never done it I wasn't sure how it would work out. It is on my list of things to learn how to do when I get the plane back.
Click to expand...

Good call. Handpropping accident rates are much higher for those in your particular situation than for those who do it every time they fly.
 
dell30rb said:
Not a 2 person job.. just tie the tail down.





That brings up a question. How to prime a fuel injected plane for hand propping. My guess for a cold start.. prime as usual, leave the mixture rich and cut the fuel pump off. Flip through 2-3 times to pull fuel into the cylinders with the ignition off. Then turn on the mags and prop it.
Click to expand...


Fuel injected...directly into cylinders. No need to flip through at all. The fuel is atomized by the injector.

I had an IO-360C1C on my Starduster Too. I don't think I would have wanted to try propping it and I've propped airplanes hundreds of times, including many radials. I know I wouldn't want to try propping one on a trike.


This space intentional left blank.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top