Starter airplanes for under $30,000

I love that no one has mentioned 172s and I get that, I'm not trying to start a holy war. The Cherokee is a solid choice. There are a few advantages to a high wing however which I have had the pleasure of enjoying: Camping under the wing, especially with rain in the forecast, getting out of the sun and relaxing in a folding chair of your choice, and the view below as you fly x=country. Oh, and if your knees start to catch up with the calendar, you will appreciate ease of in/egress.
 
Tantalum said:
I browse the listings almost daily in controller, barnstormers, and trade-a-plane and the PA28 series overall seems to be the best bang.
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Lots of 172 owners will disagree with that.
 
Something from the Beechcraft Musketeer series. I bought my '69 19A Sport for less than $20k. A solid airplane.
 
iflyvfr said:
I love that no one has mentioned 172s and I get that, I'm not trying to start a holy war. The Cherokee is a solid choice. There are a few advantages to a high wing however which I have had the pleasure of enjoying: Camping under the wing, especially with rain in the forecast, getting out of the sun and relaxing in a folding chair of your choice, and the view below as you fly x=country. Oh, and if your knees start to catch up with the calendar, you will appreciate ease of in/egress.
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Tom-D said:
Lots of 172 owners will disagree with that.
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No one's saying that 172s aren't great, but what you get for less than $30K isn't impressive. You get more for your money with a PA-28.
 
easik said:
Min 2 seats, no fancy panel required. basic ol steam gauge is fine
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If you want a two seater, there are lots of choices. I favor any of the Grumman AA1s, but that's what I learned in. I've also flown a Cessna 150 and a Tomahawk, and I would say the Grumman was the most fun of the three.
 
FormerHangie said:
No one's saying that 172s aren't great, but what you get for less than $30K isn't impressive. You get more for your money with a PA-28.
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That's because the better aircraft bring better prices. The early 172s are about the same prices as the PA 28-140 and will haul more, and are much smoother aircraft than the little 4 banging Lycomings.
 
Tom-D said:
Lots of 172 owners will disagree with that
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They are a workhorse for sure, and I have many fond hours in them, but they seem to generally have a premium over the low wings
 
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Beech line..:)
75 Sundowner $26,500
img.axd

Description
I have owned this plane for over 15 years. I use it weekly to travel to work. Cruise at 110KTS good on fuel and 2 door access and roomy cabin.
Engine(s)
0360, complete tear down and inspection with all new cylinders and mags installed about 500 hours ago.
Avionics/Radios
g430, g340, g327, Mitchell 170b 1 glide slope 1 localizer, G496 back up with weather.
Year Painted
1985
Exterior
good overall condition just touched up paint on cowl and wing walk.
Year Interior
2005
Interior
replace seat covers and carpet in 2006 with airtex
Inspection Status
going into annual in April
 
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AKBill said:
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Beech line..:)
75 Sundowner $26,500
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The forgotten brand, the old beeches
That's actually a pretty good old aircraft to build time in.
 
That Sundowner looks nice!
Like a few have mentioned, Grummans are are a good choice. 3 years ago, I bought a solid 77 Tiger for 30.5k. Flew it a couple of years with no issues and sold it for 31k. Great airplane, quick, efficient, fun to fly, low maintenance. Service ceiling was a little low for the areas I fly. My current home base is at 6000msl.
 
I bought my '66 Cherokee 180 2 yrs ago for $26k. Always hangered with good, original paint//just over 200 hrs since complete oh with new cylinders etc. //2 vor's (1 with GS)//2 coms//dme//adf//wingtip landing lights//a little over 3000 hrs tt//

Only thing I've done is added a Garmin 696 and the elt was bad at 1st annual so it was upgraded to the new freq. Other than that no surprises thru 2 annuals and only maintenance costs have been incurred.

I guess good deals are still out there, it takes time. I looked for months.
 
FormerHangie said:
If you want a two seater, there are lots of choices. I favor any of the Grumman AA1s, but that's what I learned in. I've also flown a Cessna 150 and a Tomahawk, and I would say the Grumman was the most fun of the three.
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I've flown all three as well, and I too would say the Grumman is the most fun, as well as the best performer...but, for a new pilot, the 150 and even better, the Tomahawk, practically fly themselves. So you could argue that they would have an easier time in them (but then you could also argue that they would "learn less" in them too).
 
AKBill said:
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Beech line..:)
75 Sundowner $26,500
img.axd

Description
I have owned this plane for over 15 years. I use it weekly to travel to work. Cruise at 110KTS good on fuel and 2 door access and roomy cabin.
Engine(s)
0360, complete tear down and inspection with all new cylinders and mags installed about 500 hours ago.
Avionics/Radios
g430, g340, g327, Mitchell 170b 1 glide slope 1 localizer, G496 back up with weather.
Year Painted
1985
Exterior
good overall condition just touched up paint on cowl and wing walk.
Year Interior
2005
Interior
replace seat covers and carpet in 2006 with airtex
Inspection Status
going into annual in April
Click to expand...
I like it!

Indy Air has a nice Beech Sport too:

http://indyairsales.com/1974-beech-sport-n1963w/

Interior is ragged, but the rest of it is good...IFR too.

I bought my Cherokee from Indy Air...I had nothing but a good experience with them.
 
AKBill said:
I've got a soft spot in my heart for the Beech line..:)
75 Sundowner $26,500
img.axd

Description
I have owned this plane for over 15 years. I use it weekly to travel to work. Cruise at 110KTS good on fuel and 2 door access and roomy cabin.
Engine(s)
0360, complete tear down and inspection with all new cylinders and mags installed about 500 hours ago.
Avionics/Radios
g430, g340, g327, Mitchell 170b 1 glide slope 1 localizer, G496 back up with weather.
Year Painted
1985
Exterior
good overall condition just touched up paint on cowl and wing walk.
Year Interior
2005
Interior
replace seat covers and carpet in 2006 with airtex
Inspection Status
going into annual in April
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The first club I belonged to had a Sundowner. I got checked out in it (then somebody crashed it. :mad: ). It was a very comfortable plane and easy to land. They're not speed demons because of the larger cabin cross section but they are solid and stable. Nice instrument platform for training as well.

John
 
tawood said:
I've flown all three as well, and I too would say the Grumman is the most fun, as well as the best performer...but, for a new pilot, the 150 and even better, the Tomahawk, practically fly themselves. So you could argue that they would have an easier time in them (but then you could also argue that they would "learn less" in them too).
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I have time in all three as well, and I liked them all ('cause they're planes!). I learned to fly in 150's and 172's, and went to the AA-1A a week or so after getting my PPL. The Grumman AA-1A DOES NOT fly like the 150, 172, or Tomahawk (pulling power is part of my mid-field check, a little harder to lane with a good crosswind going, other little things). But once you get used to it, there's no going back. It's a really enjoyable plane to putter around in. Very low maintenance (if we didn't BS in the hangar so much we could get the annual done in an afternoon). The O-235 is essentially bullet-proof and pretty fuel efficient (6ish gph - with MoGas STC). It's also a darn clever little plane (no rivets, wing spar is the gas tank, etc...).

It's kind of a misunderstood plane, so I don't think demand is super-high. For $30k you'll be getting a darn nice AA-1A (I see them in the sub-20 region quite often)
If you get the chance, fly one. It'll put a smile on your face.
 
Lowflynjack said:
That's a very unrealistic price! 170Bs are going for $45K minimum and a lot of them are getting close to $60K.

Cessna 140s in great condition are close to $30K and would make a great starter plane. Mine would probably leave my hangar if someone had $35K!
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I've been following your Instagram for a while, you have a beautiful C140. If I had the money right now to purchase I would probably take you up on that.
 
Travis C said:
I've been following your Instagram for a while, you have a beautiful C140. If I had the money right now to purchase I would probably take you up on that.
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Thanks! She is a beauty. If I didn't need a plane that I can use as a photo plane, I wouldn't even dream of selling. As it is now, I'm still on the fence!
 
pilotrick said:
I think a long ez is a great starter airplane! You can easily get for around 25k and you can do your own maintenance .
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Only the builder gets the repairman certificate on a homebuilt. Without the repairman certificate, you have to be an A&P to sign anything off in the log book. The only advantage you get in this department is that any A&P can also do the condition inspection; they don't have to be an IA.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Thanks! She is a beauty. If I didn't need a plane that I can use as a photo plane, I wouldn't even dream of selling. As it is now, I'm still on the fence!
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Well if you can stay on that fence for about a year I might help you down off it.;) I have to get a deployment out of the way first.
 
Eric Gleason said:
Only the builder gets the repairman certificate on a homebuilt. Without the repairman certificate, you have to be an A&P to sign anything off in the log book. The only advantage you get in this department is that any A&P can also do the condition inspection; they don't have to be an IA.
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Swing and miss. You can do any kind of alteration or maintenance you want on your experimental airplane. You do have to get an A&P to sign off on a condition inspection annually if you didn't build it. You can sign off a bunch of things on your certificated aircraft with your pilot's license.
 
steingar said:
Swing and miss. You can do any kind of alteration or maintenance you want on your experimental airplane.
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Wrong, modify it too much that it no longer meets the letter of limitation under which the AWC no longer applies and you get to do the test and re-certify the aircraft.
 
Tom-D said:
Wrong, modify it too much that it no longer meets the letter of limitation under which the AWC no longer applies and you get to do the test and re-certify the aircraft.
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Worst case is a "major modification" in which you have to consort with the FSDO and probably need to do 5 hours of flight test before putting it back into normal service. Typical case is a buyer can do most anything to an experimental other than sign off its condition (annual) inspection. You'll need an A&P or the person who holds the repairman's certificate for that particular airplane to do the condition inspection.
 
kyleb said:
Worst case is a "major modification" in which you have to consort with the FSDO and probably need to do 5 hours of flight test before putting it back into normal service. Typical case is a buyer can do most anything to an experimental other than sign off its condition (annual) inspection. You'll need an A&P or the person who holds the repairman's certificate for that particular airplane to do the condition inspection.
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Put a different engine on the E/AB tell the FAA, see what happens.
 
Tom-D said:
Put a different engine on the E/AB tell the FAA, see what happens.
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That would be a major modification. Typically a 5 hour fly-off (return to phase 1 flight test), and not requiring a reinspection under current operating limitations.
 
Tom-D said:
Wrong, modify it too much that it no longer meets the letter of limitation under which the AWC no longer applies and you get to do the test and re-certify the aircraft.
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True, but most repairs and minor alterations can be performed by the pilot with no supervision by anyone. They do have to be signed off at annual (by an A&P), unless the pilot is the builder and holds the repairman certificate. One can do far, far more n an experimental than a certificated aircraft. Moreover, for the experimental you can just run down to the auto store for your parts, rather than purchase the aviation equivalent for a hefty markup.
 
Eric Gleason said:
Without the repairman certificate, you have to be an A&P to sign anything off in the log book.
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Given that the only thing that is REQUIRED to be logged and signed off is the condition inspection, this statement is more or less correct.
But to do maintenance, minor or major alterations, no A&P or repairman certificate is required. (Major alterations sends you back into phase 1 testing per op-lims). And, if one chooses to log maintenance etc. there is no need for a certificated signature.
 
steingar said:
but most repairs and minor alterations can be performed by the pilot with no supervision by anyone. They do have to be signed off at annual (by an A&P), unless the pilot is the builder and holds the repairman certificate.
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To pick a couple nits... One does not need to be a pilot for repairs and minor alterations. And, at the condition inspection, the certificated person signs off with "I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on (insert date) in accordance with the scope and detail of appendix D to part 43 and found to be in a condition for safe operation" and does not sign off on individual repairs / alterations (which may or may not be logged).
 
You guys! Anyone can do anything to an experimental plane. They don't need to be a pilot or a mechanic. Anyone can make a major alteration and sign it off. Yes it may have to go back to phase 1 but no licenses are required to do anything except of course the yearly conditional inspection which can be done by an A&P or the builder if they get the certificate.
 
What does an E/AB owner do when the local A&Ps won't work/inspect their aircraft.?
 
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