SR22 overflies SFRA, pilot incapacitated

I bet he ran out of O2 where he came down from 21,000' to 13,000, already hypoxic without coming down far enough to recover, and he went to sleep on Autopilot
 
Henning said:
I bet he ran out of O2 where he came down from 21,000' to 13,000, already hypoxic without coming down far enough to recover, and he went to sleep on Autopilot
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How long does it take to recover from hypoxia if you're out cold and descending quickly enough? Or is that short time of being out the final nail in the coffin? Sad all the way around :nonod:
 
My only experience is in an altitude chamber...3-4 breaths and your back in the game...this is sad...


overdrive148 said:
How long does it take to recover from hypoxia if you're out cold and descending quickly enough? Or is that short time of being out the final nail in the coffin? Sad all the way around :nonod:
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I did the chamber.
I went 5 min w/o oxygen and was quite confused.
When we put the O2 on, you come back pretty quick.
2 or 3 seconds. The transformation in your vision back to color is mind blowing.
 
We had a PoA member who was sucked into a cell in a 172 enroute from ABQ to PHX. He set auto-pilot to wings level and went to sleep before 17k. Came back to it when the cloud spat them out, I don't remember what altitude. Ridges are about 8k in the area.
 
Do we know the actual outcome of this flight? Has a crash site been found? Flight Aware doesn't always indicate exactly what's happening with any flight, as I've learned.

I'm hoping it's not what you all are assuming...
 
I'm not sure 13K is low enough if you run out of O2 at 21K and need to wake up? Depends on what kind of shape the pilot was in, a 35 year old distance runner no problem, a 60 year old,fat, smoker, not so much. ;) I always trained to get to 10k in the event of a pressurization loss, no difference in this situation, IF he ran out of O2. Lots of possibilities.:dunno:

Henning said:
I bet he ran out of O2 where he came down from 21,000' to 13,000, already hypoxic without coming down far enough to recover, and he went to sleep on Autopilot
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Just heard on the news that it took off from a local airport (didn't click the FlightAware link earlier) and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. I know mattg used to fly out of there and I think steingar and nddons still do. Anybody know anything about this?

I know of an SR-20 on the field (http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/for/4572487680.html) but not an SR-22 based there.
 
N747JB said:
I'm not sure 13K is low enough if you run out of O2 at 21K and need to wake up? Depends on what kind of shape the pilot was in, a 35 year old distance runner no problem, a 60 year old,fat, smoker, not so much. ;) I always trained to get to 10k in the event of a pressurization loss, no difference in this situation, IF he ran out of O2. Lots of possibilities.:dunno:
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That's pretty much standard I though, lose pressure or run out of O2 at altitude and you come down to 10,000'.
 
N747JB said:
I'm not sure 13K is low enough if you run out of O2 at 21K and need to wake up? Depends on what kind of shape the pilot was in, a 35 year old distance runner no problem, a 60 year old,fat, smoker, not so much. ;) I always trained to get to 10k in the event of a pressurization loss, no difference in this situation, IF he ran out of O2. Lots of possibilities.:dunno:
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Not fat, but I fit the rest. Last year, I flew (not as PIC) ar 15,500 for over three hours. Got a bit light headed, but that was as far as it went. When we descended to 10,000 all was well.
 
I heard this on 121.5 this pm on the way home from New Hampshire. Heard someone call for that N-number and say "if you can hear me, pull the chute."

I thought that sounded quite ominous, but I could not determine what the problem was and there was no response at all from anyone else. It was probably quite a distance away from me, judging by the flightaware track.

I was speculating at the time that someone was losing control in the not too bad IMC that was all around me at the time.

Tragic loss.
 
Norman said:
Not fat, but I fit the rest. Last year, I flew (not as PIC) ar 15,500 for over three hours. Got a bit light headed, but that was as far as it went. When we descended to 10,000 all was well.
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I would think a lot would depend on the person's experience with altitude. As a flat lander, I get a headache after a couple hours over 10-11K, but if I had a problem at 21K, I'd want to get down to 10K or lower quickly. ;)
More speculation, but if was using a cannula, he could have been a little hypoxic at 21K?
Anyway, it's sad for the family. :(
 
Given the SFRA incursion, fighters were scrambled and the confirmed that he was out cold. Sad situation.
 
Seems like if you think you might be hypoxic (and I've touched the edges of it myself) a few seconds of down trim or throttling back should be one of your first actions.
 
Really sad. I would hate to be the fighter jet pilot who had to confirm the situation. So close yet nothing you can do about it but watch. Prayers for all of those affected.
 
Accidental hypoxia, or a simple matter of his clock stopped ticking at a rather inopportune time. Either is quite likely. An autopsy will tell very quickly if they're ever able to locate the wreckage. Fighters intercepted and followed it all the way out to sea where it ran out of fuel. So it is known where it went down, but once it sinks, it can drift a long ways in deep water.

Definitely sad for the fighter pilots that had to escort him all the way to the scene of the crash and nothing they could do about it.
 
Seems like a very new plane also, sure didn't get many hours on it before the crash. I guess whatever checkout the guy had with the plane wasn't quite enough. Sad indeed.
 
sourdough44 said:
Seems like a very new plane also, sure didn't get many hours on it before the crash. I guess whatever checkout the guy had with the plane wasn't quite enough. Sad indeed.
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Hypoxia can be extremely incipient, you'll go down feeling just fine. At FL-210, a poor mask fit can have an effect, cannulas at 210 are not sufficient IME. If the O2 peters out you're out as well. Plus he could have had a heart attack or stroke.

Regardless, there is nothing here that cries out overt incompetence.
 
If you look at the profile on flightaware he was only at 21,000 for about the first hour then he came back down to 13,000 and stayed there for over two hours.

No mention of an extended period of lost communication with the pilot...yet.
 
Just saying, being on alert for hypoxia rates right up there with other potential hazards of aviating.
 
sourdough44 said:
Just saying, being on alert for hypoxia rates right up there with other potential hazards of aviating.
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Yep, and that's why when you fly above 10,000' you should be monitoring yourself with a pulse oximeter. Problem is, hypoxia can make you forget to check.
 
timwinters said:
If you look at the profile on flightaware he was only at 21,000 for about the first hour then he came back down to 13,000 and stayed there for over two hours.



No mention of an extended period of lost communication with the pilot...yet.
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From the news story I linked to earlier (though they also referred to the plane as an SR20, so who knows):

"The aircraft, destined for Manassas Regional Airport in Virginia, descended into the ocean about 50 miles southeast of Wallops Island, Virginia, at about 3:17 p.m. EDT Saturday."

"The pilot had not been responding to radio calls since 1 p.m. EDT."
 
mjburian said:
From the news story I linked to earlier
"The pilot had not been responding to radio calls since 1 p.m. EDT."
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Ahh, I missed that even though I read all the linked articles. 1pm jibes with when the plane initially descended to 13k.
 
timwinters said:
Ahh, I missed that even though I read all the linked articles. 1pm jibes with when the plane initially descended to 13k.
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Somebody above mentioned something about a hypoxia safety on the SR-22,:dunno: I wonder if that is meant to automatically descend the plane when the O2 runs out.:confused: If that's the case, and the plane only descended to 13'k, then there is a problem, and if it's programmed for 13'k, then somebody has some explaining to do for using that number. It doesn't pass either Prudent Person or Best Practices test for recovering from hypoxia after a descent from higher altitude. The number I would expect to see is 10,000' or 2,000' above MSA.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
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timwinters said:
Ahh, I missed that even though I read all the linked articles. 1pm jibes with when the plane initially descended to 13k.
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Well, I take that back. I looked at the profile again and he'd been at 13k for two hours by 1pm...assuming the profile is in eastern time. If not, then 3 hours if it's in central. So it appears that loss of communications basically happened near DC.

If the report is accurate.

There's an interesting stair step during the first thirty minutes of that descent.
 

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Someone mentioned that some(all?) Cirrus planes are programmed to descend near 13k or so if incapacitation(no switch movement) is suspected. The descent programming altitude would have to be tempered against the likelihood of CFIT.

Yes, one would potentially recover quicker at 5000', but terrain may become an issue.

Hopefully the pilot didn't have any excess life stress. An incapacitation leading to a crash at sea?(checking out?) Just another possibility as causes are looked into.
 
sourdough44 said:
Someone mentioned that some(all?) Cirrus planes are programmed to descend near 13k or so if incapacitation(no switch movement) is suspected. The descent programming altitude would have to be tempered against the likelihood of CFIT.

Yes, one would potentially recover quicker at 5000', but terrain may become an issue.

Hopefully the pilot didn't have any excess life stress. An incapacitation leading to a crash at sea?(checking out?) Just another possibility as causes are looked into.
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10,000' is Industry Best Practice for loss of pressurization, 13,000' still requires O2 by Pt.91. 10k is what should be programmed default, and the system is capable of CFIT avoidance.
 
I heard about this yesterday as I was out fishing in the Chesapeake. USCG reported it as a single engine cessna. I figured it was a fish spotter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mjburian said:
"The aircraft, destined for Manassas Regional Airport in Virginia, descended into the ocean about 50 miles southeast of Wallops Island, Virginia, at about 3:17 p.m. EDT Saturday."
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Gulfstream's got it. Doubt they will ever find the wreckage sadly.
 
Updates on COPA indicate the body was recovered, but the aircraft sank.

I'll see if I can find an independent source.


edited to add: News reports make no mention of a body being recovered, only that returning aircraft could not find the wreckage.

I've queried the COPA member who posted that the body was recovered for his source.
 
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May he rest in peace,the facts will be established if the find the plane and pilot.
 
Henning said:
Hypoxia can be extremely incipient, you'll go down feeling just fine. At FL-210, a poor mask fit can have an effect, cannulas at 210 are not sufficient IME. If the O2 peters out you're out as well. Plus he could have had a heart attack or stroke.

Regardless, there is nothing here that cries out overt incompetence.
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Yep, could've been a medical issue outside of Hypoxia. I used to talk to this guy all the time on approach. Looks like they finally found his aircraft in the Atlantic a couple years ago:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...mystery-plane-disappearance-article-1.1129783
 
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