SR20 down 4 fatalities

TheGolfPilot said:
I really enjoyed that video. The media really makes a big deal out of ga accidents these days. I don't think most people comprehend how much planes are used in people's day to day life style.
I have one friend who lives 5 minutes from an airport and works 2.5 hours away (in traffic) 5 minutes from an airport. I have taken him flying and told showed him how even a small plane like a 150 would get him there in only 30 minutes but he just doesn't think it's for him.


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I would love to use my plane more for commuting, but the added hassle of the trip to and from the airport (mostly from) often makes it not worth flying. I may only need to get to some place a few miles away from the destination airport, but what happens if there is no courtesy car, or and no taxi service, and I really need to be somewhere on time?
 
PPC1052 said:
I would love to use my plane more for commuting, but the added hassle of the trip to and from the airport (mostly from) often makes it not worth flying. I may only need to get to some place a few miles away from the destination airport, but what happens if there is no courtesy car, or and no taxi service, and I really need to be somewhere on time?
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I have been using lyft a lot. I do go dense areas though. I also find that going to a slightly further airport with services actually saves me a little time.

For my buddy when I say five minutes from his work, I mean 5 minutes by foldabike. Ridiculously close. For someone with a regular commute it may make sense to drop a cheap car at the destination too.


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We do... For pleasure. I keep an old beater (01 Ford Escape) at O20 because 1:45 in the plane beats the hell out of 4:00+ in a car for the every-other weekend run to the boat.

Everywhere else, I Uber or Lyft.


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Caramon13 said:
Is it possible that the impact knocked the cover off where the chute comes out and due to the nose "separation" it just pulled the cables out of the fuselage?
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The chutes are known to fire on hard impacts. The position of the slider is one cue whether the chute fired on impact. If the chute fires on the ground the slider is in the canopy.
 
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Jay Honeck said:
No doubt! But that's the way the world really was in the early 60s. Those couples could easily be my parents, from the smoking to their clothing, furniture, and speech patterns.

The only unrealistic thing? I didn't see any martinis in the video. As any Mad Men fan knows, that generation knew how to party, and did so daily.
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Back when there were no bottle-to-throttle rules and the throttle would have made a good coaster for the whiskey tumbler.
 
Jay Honeck said:
I agree. The fact that the aircraft manufacturers have essentially given up marketing to non-pilots speaks volumes about how they view the future of GA.

While the numbers would have to be tweaked, the overall message of the video remains the same: Flying is easy, safe, fun, and saves time. Until we stop making piloting out to be some sort of superhuman activity, GA will shrink.

And before you trot out the "Look at this accident that proves flying is not safe" argument, I don't see Chevrolet withdrawing from the sports car market because of all the Corvettes crashing. "Safe" is a relative term, and until we reassert the fact that no motor vehicle is safe when improperly operated, we are doomed.
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While I agree with the concept, I don't agree that manufacturers don't market to non-pilots. They just market to a very select (and very rich) group of non-pilots.

Example: Pilatus. Pretty pictures of family camping at a backcountry grass airstrip where the family brought along their ATV, and their bikes, and all the comforts of home. Sure. Gonna hop right in a Pilatus without a couple of years of dedicated study of airmanship and do that...
 
denverpilot said:
While I agree with the concept, I don't agree that manufacturers don't market to non-pilots. They just market to a very select (and very rich) group of non-pilots.

Example: Pilatus. Pretty pictures of family camping at a backcountry grass airstrip where the family brought along their ATV, and their bikes, and all the comforts of home. Sure. Gonna hop right in a Pilatus without a couple of years of dedicated study of airmanship and do that...
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Build an aircraft that's affordable/accessible to the common man and you get..the common man. In this country, the common man is NOT someone I'd want flying any kind of aircraft. The average IQ of your common human in this country is 98, that's horribad.

It takes an UNcommon man (or woman) to be able to pilot even your run of the mill C172 to PTS standards, let alone a Pilatus (my favorite dream plane btw :) ).

Still, what's frustrating is the fact that you don't JUST have to be uncommon, but financially unburdened to afford these high end planes and their on-going maintenance AND proficiency (not currency).

I'd love to be able to cruise around in a Cirrus or Bonanza. When you get the common man in an aircraft that demands you be UNcommon, even with a CFI you may get these results...not everyone should be a pilot.
 
JCranford said:
I would wonder, if it was a new owner learning a new airplane as suggested, why would you bring your children along for the transition lesson?
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By the story, it sounds like he was doing all his training in his aircraft so probably not a case of mixing up controls. Taking pax along for training flights isn't new. I ask the instructor first and ensure the pax know what's to be expected.
It's just a tragic accident.
 
Worth a watch to see how things can get out of hand pretty quickly:


Easy to see how the instructor might have been allowing the student in this case to horse around the plane, maybe in a simulated emergency, and just waited a bit too long to take over.

And kudos to the new software to recognize a YouTube link and automatically treat it as an embedded video!
 
The part that really fascinates about accidents like this is that if you were to show that video to the pilot's onboard they would likely say "I would never do a maneuver like that. Something instinctive took over and made them try what they did. I really wish there was a way to listen to their logic and reasoning. There are people alive right now watching that video saying "I wouldn't do that" but they will. The human brain.
 
Gsxrpilot said:
I met a guy this morning getting ready to take his private checkride and was buying an A36 so he could take his whole family. It worries me when new pilots immediately assume all airplanes must be like the trainer they're learning to fly.
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What's so different about A36? If anything, it's easier to fly. I'm looking to buy one and the biggest concern seems to know systems, e.g. 1) fuel - don't run a tank dry and not know how to draw from another one, 2) gear - know all the emergency extension checklists, 3) avionics - don't lose it when Apen packs it in. Is there anything I'm missing?
 
zaitcev said:
What's so different about A36? If anything, it's easier to fly. I'm looking to buy one and the biggest concern seems to know systems, e.g. 1) fuel - don't run a tank dry and not know how to draw from another one, 2) gear - know all the emergency extension checklists, 3) avionics - don't lose it when Apen packs it in. Is there anything I'm missing?
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One must not fly a bonanza.... One must keep his airframe from coming from together.


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FastEddieB said:
Worth a watch to see how things can get out of hand pretty quickly:


Easy to see how the instructor might have been allowing the student in this case to horse around the plane, maybe in a simulated emergency, and just waited a bit too long to take over.

And kudos to the new software to recognize a YouTube link and automatically treat it as an embedded video!
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what I got out of that video, and keep in mind I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but that wing design will allow you to prolong a stall when turning but as soon as that stall hits, it hits hard and is mostly unrecoverable? Seems like a sports car that gives little warning as to when the back tires loose grip. I may be complete off base with my assumptions.
 
zaitcev said:
What's so different about A36? If anything, it's easier to fly. I'm looking to buy one and the biggest concern seems to know systems, e.g. 1) fuel - don't run a tank dry and not know how to draw from another one, 2) gear - know all the emergency extension checklists, 3) avionics - don't lose it when Apen packs it in. Is there anything I'm missing?
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From what I read about the V-tails, some actually had issues with the tail section and the other issues were with get thereitis and VFR pilots getting trapped in IMC conditions.
 
midcap said:
what I got out of that video, and keep in mind I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but that wing design will allow you to prolong a stall when turning but as soon as that stall hits, it hits hard and is mostly unrecoverable? Seems like a sports car that gives little warning as to when the back tires loose grip. I may be complete off base with my assumptions.
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Still recoverable in a Cirrus, but may require more aggressive forward stick that most pilots are used to. From pattern altitudes its all academic anyway.
 
re: the Avweb video. Isn't the simulation crash using bottom rudder and not top rudder as he states? Top rudder would make the stalled left wing tuck more.... wouldn't it? Maybe I have top and bottom rudder definitions mixed up?
 
I think what the narrator said was that the pilot detected or feared a spin to the left, so he slammed opposite (TOP)(RIGHT) rudder and the airplane snapped right because the wing was still loaded with 17 degrees of AOA
 
FlySince9 said:
I think what the narrator said was that the pilot detected or feared a spin to the left, so he slammed opposite (TOP)(RIGHT) rudder and the airplane snapped right because the wing was still loaded with 17 degrees of AOA
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Probably. Here's a good video about rudder, stalls, and how to crash an airplane. The snap roll demo is at 8:10 of the video. The entire Wayne Handly discussion is worth watching. http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...43A1362455367FB7C51A43A1362455367F&FORM=VIRE3
 
timwinters said:
But David is right. You are wrong....sooooooooo wrong.

But, hey, if it makes you feel better about yourself to feel superior to everyone else. Enjoy!
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+1. It's not hard. It just takes training and practice. Nearly anybody can do it. Some have a natural talent, and some may take a lifetime to learn... Most are in between. So long as you don't have some kind of inner ear issue, anyways ;-)
 
JCranford said:
I would wonder, if it was a new owner learning a new airplane as suggested, why would you bring your children along for the transition lesson?
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The fourth person in the plane was both an ATP and a CFI. On paper, plenty of experience for a flight like this. -Skip
 
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