Spot landings at sunset

rwellner98

rwellner98

Cleared for Takeoff
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It was a beautiful sunset and I was reasonably happy with my numbers...

 
Why do you tubers have to put music in that's 3 times louder than their voice? Why? Why?

With the volume off, it's very nice!
 
Salty said:
Why do you tubers have to put music in that's 3 times louder than their voice? Why? Why?
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Short answer is, we don't. :)

If you look at the wave forms for the dialog versus music, you'll see that they max out at the same levels. Your ear must perceive the music as louder because it's more consistently loud compared to dialog that has pauses and volume modulation as part of human speech. Below the left is dialog and the right is music.

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You seriously think your voice is at the same volume as the music when listening to that video?
 
Sheesh... I thought it was enjoyable. Thanks for sharing.
 
The dynamic range of the music is greater than the voice, and that's probably why you think it's louder.

I also thought it was a fun to watch video - but I don't spend a lot of time on videos on any topic; generally the information density is too low on most topics. But flying is more fun to watch than to read about! :D
 
Tried again on my iPad and it wasn’t quite as bad, but watch it with real speakers and it’s very annoying IMO. I did say the video was nice, but people only noticed the negative part.
 
Salty said:
but people only noticed the negative part.
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Don't know if that was directed at me or not, but you asked a question, so I answered it. :)

Glad you otherwise enjoyed the video.
 
rwellner98 said:
Short answer is, we don't. :)

If you look at the wave forms for the dialog versus music, you'll see that they max out at the same levels. Your ear must perceive the music as louder because it's more consistently loud compared to dialog that has pauses and volume modulation as part of human speech. Below the left is dialog and the right is music.

View attachment 90937
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You do. The waveform of the clip represents the amplitude of the recorded source material. The white line in the middle represents the setting of the output volume fader (at least it does in the video software I use). The output volume of the clip on the right is higher than the output volume of the clip on the left. You're also ignoring the concept of frequency content. Something with lots of lows mids and highs (like a band playing) is going to sound louder than something with almost no lows, a relatively narrow band of mids and (in your recording anyway) almost no highs even though both wav forms look the same on the screen. Bottom line, mix with your ears, not your eyes.

Also on just an asthetic/personal taste level, I always find ducked music distracting in videos. Especially when the volume goes from about as loud as you'd want any audio in a video when unducked to almost silent when ducked. Set the music at a volume where your voice can be clearly heard over it and leave it at that volume.


Really nice video otherwise though. I really like how all your shots are framed. Great job.
 
Just watched the video..... yes, that DOES look like lots of fun, and the video captures were sharp, clear, and just generally excellent quality.

I realize that I'm probably in the minority here, but as a person who makes his living as as a musician, I'd rather watch videos without any background music at all. If you make a video of interest to a specific enthusiast group, it will be of interest to that group. The minute you add music, it will be of less interest to those who are not fans of whatever type of music you chose... it just can't be helped... now, you have made a video for those in your intended enthusiast group who like the same kind of music you do, slightly (or more than slightly) reducing the appeal of your video to those who don't share BOTH loves of yours. I'm a jazz and classical musician, but I didn't dislike your soundtrack....... I just don't think, in general, that background music adds to a good video. Of course, if the video is dull or boring, and the background music helps the appeal of an otherwise dull or boring video, then OK... but why make the video in that case? Yours was NOT dull and boring...

As a musician, I can't "turn off my ears." Music is always foreground to me... while i'm trying to get the most out of watching your landing technique, my ears and brain and focused on analyzing the music instead, and i can't stop them from doing that. That's my problem, but there it is. I can't even listen to music while I drive.

Just something to think about. Being able to hear your engine, the wind, the wheels touching down... THAT would be the best soundtrack in my opinion.

Thanks for posting. Would love to fly with you any day.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
You do. The waveform of the clip represents the amplitude of the recorded source material. The white line in the middle represents the setting of the output volume fader (at least it does in the video software I use).
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I was wondering if I was going to have to explain that. There is something with the interaction between the ducking and the display. What appears to be high in that screen shot is actually 0.0db when you hover over it, or look at it in the effects controls window, the ducked audio is -23db. I can tell you that those values are the correct ones by comparing it to unmodified clips and, indeed, from years of experience with this suite and these headphones.

*shrugs*

Juliet Hotel said:
Also on just an asthetic/personal taste level, I always find ducked music distracting in videos.
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MuseChaser said:
I realize that I'm probably in the minority here, but as a person who makes his living as as a musician, I'd rather watch videos without any background music at all.
[...]
Just something to think about. Being able to hear your engine, the wind, the wheels touching down... THAT would be the best soundtrack in my opinion.
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Yeah, everyone has a different opinion. Some people only show up for the music it seems. Others want engine noises. Some want dialog, some don't.

So I make the videos I like. And I strongly prefer dialog and music. :)

One of the wildcards is that different setups sound different. Salty noted that he thought the music was way too loud when listening on his stereo, but better on his ipad

I mix on studio headphones because I don't have a better solution. And things sound great. But that doesn't mean they will sound great everywhere. :)
 
rwellner98 said:
....So I make the videos I like. And I strongly prefer dialog and music. :)...
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And that's all the justification you need. Smiles backatcha!

rwellner98 said:
... I mix on studio headphones because I don't have a better solution. And things sound great. But that doesn't mean they will sound great everywhere. :)
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I've done quite a bit of music recording and production work. Mixing and mastering for mass market targets, meaning material that will be played on a wide variety of equipment, is really difficult to get right. Headphones, generally, tend to result in mixes that really only sound great in headphones. When I mix and master, I use 'phones for initial rough mixing, then check mixes on quality minimonitors (currently using Tannoys, but there's lots of options that don't cost a ton) and then a good full range setup...then back to phones to make sure it still soinds good there. Same process for mastering, sometimes going through the three or four different playback systems multiple times to tweak and get everything just right.

If you want to keep it simple and stick with headphones-only for your home studio mixes, try picking up a pair of Grado SR60 'phones....they were around $60 or so last time I checked. They sound MOST like speakers, and the quick mixes I've done with them solely transfer to other playback methods much better than any of my other much more revealing (and expensive) headphones.
 
rwellner98 said:
I was wondering if I was going to have to explain that. There is something with the interaction between the ducking and the display. What appears to be high in that screen shot is actually 0.0db when you hover over it, or look at it in the effects controls window, the ducked audio is -23db. I can tell you that those values are the correct ones by comparing it to unmodified clips and, indeed, from years of experience with this suite and these headphones.

*shrugs*
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0.0 to -23 does not surprise me. That's way more ducking than I've ever used but that's me.


Yeah, everyone has a different opinion. Some people only show up for the music it seems. Others want engine noises. Some want dialog, some don't.

So I make the videos I like. And I strongly prefer dialog and music. :)
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You should absolutely make the videos you like. Some food for thought though. Movies and television use dialog over music all the time but you rarely if ever hear a ducker being used on it.


I mix on studio headphones because I don't have a better solution. And things sound great. But that doesn't mean they will sound great everywhere. :)
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If you mix on headphones, your mixed are almost guaranteed to sound like crap on anything other than headphones. A $100 bill will buy you a set of powered studio monitors that will do a way better job than headphones.
 
↑
Why do you tubers have to put music in that's 3 times louder than their voice? Why? Why?

Short answer is, we don't. :)

The video was great. Flying into grass fields that are a part of growing crops adds the need to correctly identify the break between the two. The worst example I flew into was easy, mid summer to fall, as it had corn on both sides. Short runway with dog leg on a ridge top, speed below 50 to make the turn, and cattle proof fences at the ends. If wet, speed in the turn about 20, as it is clay soil. I never tried it wet.

My impression was the music was louder than the voice, and with my bad ears, the CC feature was required. Salty's criticism was directed at the category, and quite strong. Your rebuttal with real graphic answers, is commendable and appropriate.

Not a criticism of your technique, but my training and practice is to use 3/4 flaps, at idle, and adjust only flaps to hit the mark, but that stems from flying from a relatively short runway with tall obstructions, both ends. Engine failure on final only cost you some beans, not the plane.

You have a very nice plane, and I envy the region you are flying in. If I lived there, I would go basic med, and return to flying. Inside the beltway, Washington, is not a place to fly with damaged hearing.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
If you mix on headphones, your mixed are almost guaranteed to sound like crap on anything other than headphones. A $100 bill will buy you a set of powered studio monitors that will do a way better job than headphones.
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Yeah, that's why I said "because I don't have a better solution". I live in Mexico and the housing construction is entirely cement. So everything echos like crazy. Plus I travel a lot, so even if I were willing to spend a bunch of money killing the echos in a room at home, it still wouldn't be a great solution. 25% solution at best.

So, at some level, this is one of those "it is what it is" situations. Not perfect, but not worth the time/money/hassle to try and do better.
 
MuseChaser said:
If you want to keep it simple and stick with headphones-only for your home studio mixes, try picking up a pair of Grado SR60 'phones....they were around $60 or so last time I checked. They sound MOST like speakers, and the quick mixes I've done with them solely transfer to other playback methods much better than any of my other much more revealing (and expensive) headphones.
Click to expand...

I don't have much choice but to stick with cans, so thanks for the recommendation.
 
Copied from another thread of Rich's from 2 years ago:

Mtns2Skies said:
There's a mute button you know. :rolleyes: So many pilots are so damn particular about the stinking MUSIC in these videos that they can't see the airplane. If you don't like it that much then either don't comment or mute the video and play whatever you'd like to hear on another youtube video for the audio.

Making and editing these videos is not at all a simple or easy task to just scoff at someone's work because they don't have the exact same taste in music as you is a bit over-the-top.

Great video @rwellner98!
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Mtns2Skies said:
Copied from another thread of Rich's from 2 years ago:
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Copied from this thread.
+rwellner98 said:
Yeah, everyone has a different opinion. Some people only show up for the music it seems. Others want engine noises. Some want dialog, some don't.

So I make the videos I like. And I strongly prefer dialog and music. :)
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Rich makes the videos he wants to make and isn't particularly interested in whether or not anyone besides himself cares for them. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you have no interest in creating content that anyone besides yourself will like and then post that content and promote it so more people will watch it (by creating a thread on a forum about it for example), you should expect that people who don't care for it are going to say so. You're entitled to feel that's over the top if you want but I think its unrealistic to expect anything different.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Rich makes the videos he wants to make and isn't particularly interested in whether or not anyone besides himself cares for them.
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I think you read too much into what I said. I do care what people think. I do like the idea of sharing with people. However, given that everyone has a different opinion on such fundamental ideas as music, dialog, engine sounds, etc. it's impossible to make one video that satisfies everyone. So, given that reality, I cut for a style I (and plenty of others) like.

Juliet Hotel said:
But if you have no interest in creating content that anyone besides yourself will like and then post that content and promote it so more people will watch it (by creating a thread on a forum about it for example), you should expect that people who don't care for it are going to say so. You're entitled to feel that's over the top if you want but I think its unrealistic to expect anything different.
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I never said people should sit on their hands. Indeed, I specifically noted one of your suggestions as being one that I thought generally useful. I never said people were over the top either. Now, that said, I do find it amusing that some people think their opinions are objectively true facts. This is subjective stuff. Some people love videos that are just static shots for the entirety of flights. Personally, I have no use for that. I think it's boring. But I'm not out there tell people publishing that kind of content that they are doing it wrong. It's just my opinion.

On one of your replies you made it clear that you were expressing your personal opinion. That's great! I appreciated the feedback and it happens to be a note that will almost certainly modify my next edit. I wouldn't want you to feel like that feedback was unwanted or over the top. It was useful and helpful.
 
rwellner98 said:
I think you read too much into what I said. I do care what people think. I do like the idea of sharing with people. However, given that everyone has a different opinion on such fundamental ideas as music, dialog, engine sounds, etc. it's impossible to make one video that satisfies everyone. So, given that reality, I cut for a style I (and plenty of others) like.



I never said people should sit on their hands. Indeed, I specifically noted one of your suggestions as being one that I thought generally useful. I never said people were over the top either. Now, that said, I do find it amusing that some people think their opinions are objectively true facts. This is subjective stuff. Some people love videos that are just static shots for the entirety of flights. Personally, I have no use for that. I think it's boring. But I'm not out there tell people publishing that kind of content that they are doing it wrong. It's just my opinion.

On one of your replies you made it clear that you were expressing your personal opinion. That's great! I appreciated the feedback and it happens to be a note that will almost certainly modify my next edit. I wouldn't want you to feel like that feedback was unwanted or over the top. It was useful and helpful.
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Let me start with, great video, really enjoyed it.

In my opinion, I found the extreme ducked audio somewhat distracting. It was like the music and the dialog were fighting for attention. I'm the star, no I am! etc. Putting musical preferences aside (not my style but I can look past that), I feel like if the unducked background music would increase only slightly from the ducked volume, the video would seem more cohesive to me. If I turned the volume way up to where I could hear the music while you were speaking, it would blare at me during its turn at bat. If I turned the volume to a comfortable listening level for the music, your dialog was still audible but then the music would fade to almost silence which wouldn't allow a fan of the music to continue enjoying that portion of the audio.

Anyway, my 2 cents. Loved the vid, keep it up!
 
I apologize for my comments making so much fuss. On the computer I watched the video on initially it was a HUGE difference between pilot and music. But my intent was not to start a fight.

I'm sorry if others disagree, but a video like that I want to hear the pilot and I literally could not hear him if I turned the music down enough that it wasn't hurting my ears, so I had to keep adjusting the volume back and forth. I have no problem with the music itself. But it was extremely irritating as heard on my device and did make an otherwise awesome video an unpleasant experience.
 
I struggled a bit with spot landings when we had the Maule. It had this tendency, when I thought I was in the perfect flare, to balloon slightly right at the end and put me past my mark. I had a theory that it had to do with those bungees on the flaps because when you put full flaps in on approach they don't go down all the way, not until the last moment of the flare. Watch them when someone else is landing or put your GoPro on them and you'll see. They were designed that way and Ray Maule explained it but I never really understood why. Anyway, everyone said I was wrong because the flaps don't add any lift at that point, just drag but the Maule is a plane that is challenging to consistently land on a spot with grace. It can be done but you need to spend a lot of time in the plane.
 
that beautiful land is in MX ??
Great vid, my family wants me to get a Maule... I spend the day in a pal's Husky this past weekend... holy cow what a machine.
 
Salty said:
I apologize for my comments making so much fuss. On the computer I watched the video on initially it was a HUGE difference between pilot and music. But my intent was not to start a fight.
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No worries my man. All feedback is useful feedback.

Silvaire said:
I struggled a bit with spot landings when we had the Maule. It had this tendency, when I thought I was in the perfect flare, to balloon slightly right at the end and put me past my mark. I
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With the people I've watched it's been a reluctance to get slow. Most people train in planes with a faster stall speed and are reluctant to get slow enough that the Maule really wants to be done flying.

AGLyme said:
that beautiful land is in MX ??
Great vid, my family wants me to get a Maule... I spend the day in a pal's Husky this past weekend... holy cow what a machine.
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Yeah dude! My buddy has a Husky and I flew one in Germany a couple years ago. Kind of a funny side-note: My entire 1.2 hours of Husky time is as a tow pilot! lol!

Anyway, I'm happy with my Maule. It's not the best at anything, but it's good enough at a whole lot. Including affordability.
 
Tell us more about your Maule...and where in Mexico that was taken? I'm only familiar w Quintana Roo.... looks beautiful.
 
Great video. While some of the music comments came across a bit harsh, they did get me thinking about sound design and how to improve my videos.
 
My personal request is for the folks who just post videos to indicate that in that titles. I thought this would be a discussion of spot landings, not a discussion about a video of spot landings.
 
MuseChaser said:
Tell us more about your Maule...and where in Mexico that was taken? I'm only familiar w Quintana Roo.... looks beautiful.
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This video was shot in Wisconsin at the family farm.

In Mexico we split our time between San Miguel de Allende, in central Mexico, and Huatulco, almost as far south as you can get and still be in Mexico. Our Huatulco house is an AirBnB, in case people might be interested in a vacation option. https://airbnb.com/h/casa-isa

Sometimes we go on horseback bar crawls for fun in San Miguel de Allende. It's a big beautiful wonderful country, with amazing people. We love it there.


F01LA said:
Great video. While some of the music comments came across a bit harsh, they did get me thinking about sound design and how to improve my videos.
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Yeah, got me thinking about some things also.
 
rwellner98 said:
...Anyway, I'm happy with my Maule. It's not the best at anything, but it's good enough at a whole lot. Including affordability.
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Yea we had an M7-235C for ten years and while it did have it's idiosyncrasies that we used to call "Maulisms" you couldn't beat the price with a stick. We put a lot of air miles on Alfa Whiskey including the full on Mecca trip to Alaska. I ran a web blog call Maulebros but there were no GoPros back then and YouTube was still a nascent puppy so no 4k videos though I do have a bunch of unstabilized Sony Hi-8 stuff :)

Those were the days!
 
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