Sport Pilot "Class B/C/D endorsement" before checkride?

RussR

RussR

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Title's a little confusing. I have a student following our Private Pilot curriculum. For various reasons, which are not pertinent to the question, he will train with us for a while, but then will be switching to a different school that will train him as a Sport Pilot, and finish his training and checkride there.

As part of the Private Pilot curriculum, of course, is ATC communication, which can easily include Class B/C/D exposure where we are.

So, before he leaves our school, I will have provided him with all the ground and flight training he needs for the 61.325 endorsement for a Sport Pilot to fly in B/C/D.

But can I provide him with the endorsement? I'm not sure:

61.325:
- If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft in Class B, C, or D airspace <snip> you must receive and log ground and flight training. The authorized instructor who provides this training must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies you are proficient in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:

A strict reading of this would require that he already be a Sport Pilot before he could get the endorsement (the words "If you hold.."), however a more liberal reading would allow the training I'm providing him to count.

Logically, I would say it should count, training is training, regardless of timing. And it seems a similar situation to endorsing a private student for, say, a tailwheel prior to the checkride. But 61.31 is worded differently than 61.325.

Note I'm not asking about the pre-checkride Sport Pilot endorsement for solo flight in B/C/D, I'm asking about the post-checkride endorsement for basically the same thing.

Anybody have any guidance on this? Thanks!
 
I think you're reading too much into this. As I read 61.325, it appears to say only when you need the endorsement, not when you get it. Therefore, I see no reason why an instructor could not give both the training and endorsements for both the 61.94 Student and 61.325 Sport B/C/D endorsements all at the same time before the Student takes the Sport Pilot practical test. If it were otherwise, one could not take the Sport Pilot practical test at an airport within B/C/D airspace without being trapped there after completion of the practical test, and that is too absurd even for the FAA.
 
As a sport pilot student prior to solo my CFI had to endorse me for Class D operations as I was soloing at a class D airport. I chose to wait to get my B/C endorsement until after my SP check ride. I think it worked out fine.

Carl
 
OK, I am now officially confused. Does one need THREE separate endorsements? B, C and D individually? I was under the impression that one covered them all.
 
Ok I found out the reason for my confusing statement and sorry about that. As a SP Student, per FAR 61.94 the CFI has to issue an endorsement prior to solo flight for a specific B/C/D airport that the student will be soloing at if they are soloing in one of those airspaces. That endorsement as with the solo endorsement is only good for 90 days and only for that specific airport.

Ref is here § 61.94 Student pilot seeking a sport pilot certificate or a recreational pilot certificate: Operations at airports within, and in airspace located within, Class B, C, and D airspace, or at airports with an operational control tower in other airspace.
(a) A student pilot seeking a sport pilot certificate or a recreational pilot certificate who wants to obtain privileges to operate in Class B, C, and D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower, must receive and log ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:

(1) The use of radios, communications, navigation systems and facilities, and radar services.

(2) Operations at airports with an operating control tower, to include three takeoffs and landings to a full stop, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern, at an airport with an operating control tower.

(3) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

(4) Ground and flight training for the specific Class B, C, or D airspace for which the solo flight is authorized, if applicable, within the 90-day period preceding the date of the flight in that airspace. The flight training must be received in the specific airspace area for which solo flight is authorized.

(5) Ground and flight training for the specific airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace for which the solo flight is authorized, if applicable, within the 90-day period preceding the date of the flight at that airport. The flight and ground training must be received at the specific airport for which solo flight is authorized.

(b) The authorized instructor who provides the training specified in paragraph (a) of this section must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies the student has received that training and is proficient to conduct solo flight in that specific airspace or at that specific airport and in those aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in this section.

After you get your certificate (and I was told this could be done before as well), you get a single endorsement per FAR 61.325 that says you have received the proper radio training, towered airport training and are endorsed to operate in class B/C/D airspace. That is a single all encompassing endorsement.

Ref here § 61.325 How do I obtain privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft at an airport within, or in airspace within, Class B, C, and D airspace, or in other airspace with an airport having an operational control tower?
If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek privileges to operate a light-sport aircraft in Class B, C, or D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, or to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower, you must receive and log ground and flight training. The authorized instructor who provides this training must provide a logbook endorsement that certifies you are proficient in the following aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation:

(a) The use of radios, communications, navigation system/facilities, and radar services.

(b) Operations at airports with an operating control tower to include three takeoffs and landings to a full stop, with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern, at an airport with an operating control tower.

(c) Applicable flight rules of part 91 of this chapter for operations in Class B, C, and D airspace and air traffic control clearances.

Sorry about the confusion. I don't have my logbook with me and was just remembering that I have two separate endorsements and this is why.

Carl
 
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