Sport and DUI

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

I have logged a whole 2.9 hours of flight time on my way to my PPL, when my instructor told me that I should work on my medical, He said, "you never know what will come up, it might take you 3 months to a year to get it".

That's when I found out that my DUI from 4 years ago was a problem.

I Mean, yes, the DUI was a big problem. I don't drink anymore. My fault, I put myself in that position.

I have read enough posts to realize that I may be a Sport Pilot.

I know that I could (Probably) get the medical eventually, but I'm in my Mid 40's and I don't want to spend my retirement Jumping through the hoops of the FFA. I have read enough posts to know that it is what it is.

So I am going to start by getting My sport Pilot.

This will be just a hobby, and I have talked to and read enough to know that the SP Community is great and I think I would have a lot of fun with it.

My Question.

*** If 2 years down the road, while enjoying my SP, I decide I would like to get a bigger, faster plane and I try for my Medical, and don't get it, would I loose my Sport Pilot for the 6 month to two years It takes to get my paperwork proper?

*** Once I open myself up to the FFA there is no putting the genie back in the bottle, So is best to just enjoy the Sport and be happy, Don't want to learn to love something and then have the rug yanked out.

Thank you for any advice or shared experiences.

 

[rk911]

a couple of things...if you apply for a medical and it is denied you lose your Sport Pilot privlileges. period. but until you are denied a 3rd class or do something else that causes the FAA to suspend or revoke you your Sport Certificate remains valid. if you do decide to jump through the hoops and are successful all of your Sport hours count towards the PPL but there will be additional requires training.

 

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

if you apply for a medical and it is denied you lose your Sport Pilot privlileges. period.

Understood, So I'll explore my SP and enjoy it.

I plan on pulling my driving record and see what it says.

Does anyone know how far back I should request for? Had some (8) speeding tickets when I was young, had a lead foot, but learned quickly just how expensive it was. haven't had a speeding ticket now for 25 years Kind of curious if there are any mention of them now. Only one BIG fat ticket on my record....

Any other documents I should request for my records?

I shouldn't have anything else, I just want to know what my records exactly say.

Than I can take them to a "specialist" and than I can decide If I should risk it or be happy to fly with a SP.

any other advice or experience (Story's) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bbchien]

Depends.
Did you blow and what did you blow?
Do you still drink…at all?

 

[rk911]

Depends.
Did you blow and what did you blow?
Do you still drink…at all?

i was going to address that.

OP…if you’re still drinking to impairment..or using recreational drugs…find another hobby. some say 8-hrs bottle to throttle. make that 12-hrs. don’t know commercial regs but my buddy tells me anything more than a 0.04% BAC is prohibited. i don’t drink alcohol but that seems to be a very low bar.

you can exercise SPL privileges if you have a valid driver’s license. before you fly you are self-certifying that you have no medical issues which would hinder your ability to safely opetate the airplane. there is a list of medical conditions the FAA is concerned with. i just can’t lay my hands on it at this time.

 

[idahoflier]

If you can, pursue Sport Pilot now. Get your license and enjoy flying. You will be in a much better position at that point to evaluate whether you really want to take the chance and endure the pain, suffering and expense of the medical certification process. Good Luck and Blue Skies!

 

[Dana]

Go for SP now. In a few years, there's a very good chance that the LSA definition will be expanded to include larger and faster aircraft.

 

[lsaway]

*** If 2 years down the road, while enjoying my SP, I decide I would like to get a bigger, faster plane and I try for my Medical, and don't get it, would I loose my Sport Pilot for the 6 month to two years It takes to get my paperwork proper?

I believe that your medical would be deferred while you are getting your paperwork in order. If you have an FAA medical that has been denied, suspended, or revoked is the disqualifying rule for sport pilot privileges. You would still be able to fly while your medical is deferred. If you do not satisfy the FAA requirements , then your deferred medical will turn into a denied medical, and at that point you lose your sport pilot privileges. I hope somebody else can confirm this for you because I am not certain with the DUI scenario.

 

[flyingron]

i was going to address that.

OP…if you’re still drinking to impairment..or using recreational drugs…find another hobby. some say 8-hrs bottle to throttle. make that 12-hrs. don’t know commercial regs but my buddy tells me anything more than a 0.04% BAC is prohibited. i don’t drink alcohol but that seems to be a very low bar.

It's intended to be a low bar. You're not supposed to have *ANY* alcohol in your body. Understand that the .08 that is commonly used for DRIVING issues, isn't the poitn where you're suddenly safe if you're below, it's the point where the state assumes you're impaired without needing any other proof.

THe reason it's .04% is that this is about the threshold of detectability of imbibed alcohol. Some people have natural levels just below that.

you can exercise SPL privileges if you have a valid driver’s license. before you fly you are self-certifying that you have no medical issues which would hinder your ability to safely opetate the airplane. there is a list of medical conditions the FAA is concerned with. i just can’t lay my hands on it at this time.

Every time you fly PERIOD, be it sport pilot, basic med, or with a medical, you have to determine that you are fit to fly. There is no such thing as "self certifying" anymore. That's a term that applied to glider operation that is long gone. Now it's just your self appraisal of your situation.

 

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

Depends.
Did you blow and what did you blow?
Do you still drink…at all?

No I didn't blow. No I don't drink anymore. Along with a long list of poor decisions that day, not blowing was one of them.

 

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

you’re still drinking to impairment..or using recreational drugs…

I'm no longer drinking. Never used illegal drugs, rarely take over countertop. No prescriptions. Had a health check a urar ago, blood work, everything, Dr told me to watch my cholesterol, a little higher than average, but everything else was good. Thank you for responding.

 

[flyingron]

Bruce will be back shortly, but this is going to be a deferral. While you are waiting you can get a hold of all your court records that you can, and a copy of your driving record for the past ten years for every state you've had a license in that time. If you've had any treatment related to this, they'll want those records as well.

It's good that you are completely dry now. Many pilots don't understand that when the Dr. Bruce and the FAA say they want to see sobriety, they don't mean that you're not over .08, but completely abstinant. There will be testing to back this up.

 

[DFH65]

Go sport and hope they change the rules for bigger aircraft in the future. Of course that assumes you can find a plane to train in.

 

[Half Fast]

Do Sport Pilot. Don’t play FAA medical roulette unless and until you find you can’t do the flights you want as a Sport Pilot. Chances are SP will be adequate.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

You would still be able to fly while your medical is deferred. If you do not satisfy the FAA requirements , then your deferred medical will turn into a denied medical, and at that point you lose your sport pilot privileges.

Nope. You have to have to have been found eligible at your last application for a medical. Deferral is not "found eligible".

 

[flyingron]

Nope. You have to have to have been found eligible at your last application for a medical. Deferral is not "found eligible".

Deferral's always result in one of two things: issuance or denial. It's just prolonging the discision. If you have a medical and get deferred, and the letter starts out with something like, "We're not able to tell if you meet the requirements for a medical." This isn't a denial, if you hold a medical and your assessment is you still meet the requirements, you can continue to fly until it times out. If they tell you that you DON'T meet the requirements for a medical, then you're stuck immediately, even if they leave the door open for a SI.

But if denial is in the ultimate cards, you never want to start an application. The bell can't be unrung once the AME starts the process.

 

[lsaway]

This is from the 2022 Guide For Aviation Medical Examiners:

11. Operations Not Requiring a Medical Certificate

“Sport” pilots are required to hold either a valid airman medical certificate or a current
and valid U.S. driver’s license. When using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license to
qualify, sport pilots must comply with each restriction and limitation on their U.S. driver’s
license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor
vehicle.

To exercise sport pilot privileges using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license as
evidence of qualification, sport pilots must:
--Not have been denied the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical
certificate (if they have applied for an airman medical certificate)
--Not have had their most recent airman medical certificate revoked or suspended
(if they have held an airman medical certificate); and
--Not have had an Authorization withdrawn (if they have ever been granted an
Authorization).

Sport pilots may not use a current and valid U.S. driver’s license in lieu of a valid airman
medical certificate if they know or have reason to know of any medical condition that
would make them unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

This is from the 2022 Guide For Aviation Medical Examiners:

11. Operations Not Requiring a Medical Certificate

“Sport” pilots are required to hold either a valid airman medical certificate or a current
and valid U.S. driver’s license. When using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license to
qualify, sport pilots must comply with each restriction and limitation on their U.S. driver’s
license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor
vehicle.

To exercise sport pilot privileges using a current and valid U.S. driver’s license as
evidence of qualification, sport pilots must:
--Not have been denied the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical
certificate (if they have applied for an airman medical certificate)
--Not have had their most recent airman medical certificate revoked or suspended
(if they have held an airman medical certificate); and
--Not have had an Authorization withdrawn (if they have ever been granted an
Authorization).

Sport pilots may not use a current and valid U.S. driver’s license in lieu of a valid airman
medical certificate if they know or have reason to know of any medical condition that
would make them unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

Which, of course, is different wording than the regulations:
A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of this paragraph must -

(1) Comply with each restriction and limitation imposed by that person's U.S. driver's license and any judicial or administrative order applying to the operation of a motor vehicle;

(2) Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

(3) Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn; and

(4) Not know or have reason to know of any medical condition that would make that person unable to operate a light-sport aircraft in a safe manner.

 

[Half Fast]

Nope. You have to have to have been found eligible at your last application for a medical. Deferral is not "found eligible".

Deferral is "no finding yet." The medical is still in process.

 

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

Do Sport Pilot. Don’t play FAA medical roulette unless and until you find you can’t do the flights you want as a Sport Pilot. Chances are SP will be adequate.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. My budget isn't the best, and it makes sense to go the less expensive route first. If I feel restricted and decided it's worth the hoops, than I will have my ducks together, (not in a row) but at least in the same pond. . Anyone else been down this road and are you happy with your decision?

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[lsaway]

Anyone else been down this road and are you happy with your decision?
Thanks again for the responses.

I have had first class medical certificate in the past. I have developed a couple medical conditions now that would require a review and Special Issuance (getting old isn't fun). I won't apply for another medical unless I'm 100% certain it won't be denied. I'm happy with this decision to stick with Sport Pilot. When I want to fly bigger planes, I get another medically certified & qualified pilot to fly with me. It's better than not flying at all.

 

[Clip4]

Until, if ever, the FAA includes more aircraft in LSA, I would find a new hobby. Sports pilot kinda sucks.

 

[DaleB]

Until, if ever, the FAA includes more aircraft in LSA, I would find a new hobby. Sports pilot kinda sucks.

Sucks less than not flying. The only thing I actually miss is being able to fly at night. The rentals and club plane I was flying weren't as fast as the LSA I'm flying now, but they did cost 3x as much per hour. The one thing that did really p*** me off was having to give up the RV-7 I was halfway through building... that did suck.

 

[idahoflier]

I have had first class medical certificate in the past. I have developed a couple medical conditions now that would require a review and Special Issuance (getting old isn't fun). I won't apply for another medical unless I'm 100% certain it won't be denied. I'm happy with this decision to stick with Sport Pilot. When I want to fly bigger planes, I get another medically certified & qualified pilot to fly with me. It's better than not flying at all.

Or go BasicMed, unless you're talking really big planes... ;-)

 

[Lindberg]

Deferral is "no finding yet." The medical is still in process.

So you haven't been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of your most recent application.

 

[Half Fast]

So you haven't been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of your most recent application.

No, you’re still within the “time of your most recent application.” The deferral has made that time a longer period; it’s not a discrete event in the case of a deferral.

 

[Lindberg]

No, you’re still within the “time of your most recent application.” The deferral has made that time a longer period; it’s not a discrete event in the case of a deferral.

The regulation says "at the time." A deferral is a decision at the time of your application, and it's not a decision that you are eligible.

 

[bflynn]

In a few years, there's a very good chance that the LSA definition will be expanded to include larger and faster aircraft.

"very good" is relative to "no chance at all". The question of raising the weight limit on sport has been raised, but it's been a while since I've heard anyone talking about it.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Sports pilot kinda sucks.

Ain't much different than private pilot with a Cessna 120 near as I can tell.

 

[Clip4]

Sucks less than not flying. The only thing I actually miss is being able to fly at night. The rentals and club plane I was flying weren't as fast as the LSA I'm flying now, but they did cost 3x as much per hour. The one thing that did really p*** me off was having to give up the RV-7 I was halfway through building... that did suck.

If the LSA you fly now was faster than what you were flying, that sucked too. Yea, if your mission is fly to get a cheese burger they work, but cheese burger runs get pretty boring rather quickly.

 

[Clip4]

Ain't much different than private pilot with a Cessna 120 near as I can tell.

Yea, that sucks too. Like driving Yugo.

 

[Half Fast]

The regulation says "at the time." A deferral is a decision at the time of your application, and it's not a decision that you are eligible.

Nope, a deferral is merely a delayed decision. The applicant hasn’t received a finding yet, so he hasn’t been “found” anything. No decision about his eligibility has been made yet. The AME has passed the decision to OKC.

You take it your way and I’ll take it mine. Since I’ll never go through a medical application again I really don’t care very much.

In the real world, it’s very unlikely that a deferred applicant who continues to fly as a Sport Pilot will ever be noticed, especially if he happens to be flying his own plane.

 

[DaleB]

If the LSA you fly now was faster than what you were flying, that sucked too. Yea, if your mission is fly to get a cheese burger they work, but cheese burger runs get pretty boring rather quickly.

I suppose it's relative. I was flying a 172, and before that Cherokees. 100, 110 kt on a good day at 8 gph or so of AVGAS. Now I can cruise at 110 on about 4.5 GPH of premium unleaded MOGAS, or 120 kt at about 5.5 GPH. Any way you slice it, it's some (relatively) cheap flying if you 're not in a turbine hurry. But yeah, it's no Cirrus or whatever. The flying I do doesn't require that.

Prior to my medical-ending event, we were pondering a move to an airpark in a warmer climate. The RV-7 would have made that practical. We could pop back up here for the weekend; it would typically be a 3 hour flight with no fuel stop needed. Now it would take 4-1/2 plus a fuel stop, so it's no longer practical. On the bright side, it saved me a ton of money on moving expenses and buying a much more expensive house, so there's the silver lining I guess.

 

[Half Fast]

Sports pilot kinda sucks.

Maybe for you, but not everyone has the same goals or desires as you.

I flew as a SP for a couple of years before going PP, and it didn’t suck at all. If I’d been unable to get a medical I’d be very satisfied with Sport. The planes are quite capable and if for some reason I stop doing Basic Med I won’t hesitate to swap my Beech for an LSA.

I wanted the Beech so my wife could bring along her desired huge luggage load and possibly a dog, or so we could occasionally take up another friend or two. I also like having a more comfortable ride in a chop and better wind capability. But that doesn’t mean living within Sport limits would suck.

 

[lsaway]

So you haven't been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of your most recent application.

If a medical is deferred, is the airman still "eligible for issuance" while it is reviewed? If they were not still eligible, wouldn't they be denied right on the spot? To me, if it's not denied, there is still the possibility of being issued, therefore still eligible. I know I may not be interpreting it the same way the FAA does. Does anybody have any reference to any specific FAA interpretation regarding this?

Subpart D: Third Class Airman Medical Certificate includes 67.301 through 67.315

---67.301 Eligibility. To be eligible for a third-class airman medical certificate, or to remain eligible for a third-class airman medical certificate, a person must meet the requirements of this subpart.
---67.315 Discretionary issuance. A person who does not meet the provisions of §§67.303 through 67.313 may apply for the discretionary issuance of a certificate under §67.401.

At the time of the application, the airman is applying for discretionary issuance with the deferral. In this case, does 67.315 override 67.303 through 67.313 and keep the airman eligible while waiting for the decision? The AME deferring the application seems to be an acceptance of application using the provision of 67.315

 

[KeepWatch]

Along with a long list of poor decisions that day, not blowing was one of them.

Maybe. Maybe not. If you were at BAC 0.20, you better thank your lucky stars you didn't blow. If you were at BAC 0.09, you caused yourself a bigger headache with the FAA should you decide to move forward.

 

[AKA~Naked Jailer]

I have got a lesson planned for March 4th. I will talk to my CFI and see what he says. There are 3 sport pilot instructors listed in my state that I can find, and one is at the same airport I'm learning at.

Lots of great info from all. Thank you.

 

[Clip4]

Maybe for you, but not everyone has the same goals or desires as you.

I flew as a SP for a couple of years before going PP, and it didn’t suck at all. If I’d been unable to get a medical I’d be very satisfied with Sport. The planes are quite capable and if for some reason I stop doing Basic Med I won’t hesitate to swap my Beech for an LSA.

I wanted the Beech so my wife could bring along her desired huge luggage load and possibly a dog, or so we could occasionally take up another friend or two. I also like having a more comfortable ride in a chop and better wind capability. But that doesn’t mean living within Sport limits would suck.

Glad you came to your senses.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

There are 3 sport pilot instructors listed in my state that I can find, and one is at the same airport I'm learning at.

You don't need a "Sport Pilot" instructor - a regular instructor can instruct in an LSA towards a S.P. certificate. The hard part is finding the aircraft.

 

[Clip4]

You don't need a "Sport Pilot" instructor - a regular instructor can instruct in an LSA towards a S.P. certificate. The hard part is finding the aircraft.

A lot of CFIs will not teach light sport and recreational students and the few that do are where they have rental LSAs. Relatively low training requirements and students with medical and substance abuse histories isn’t a big motivator.