Spokane Co. sues man over use of private helipad

Grum.Man said:
People need to mind their own dang business and let him use his own property how he sees fit.
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As long as they don't seriously affect the neighbors' ability to enjoy their own property, of course.
 
Grum.Man said:
Talk about apples to bananas.
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It's not. Land fill is just one example. What if your neighbor decides to erect a steel building in his back yard and start a manufacturing facility? Should you "just mind your own business"?

Most people never consult local ordinances about LZ's. While some municipalities are silent on this, others have explicit laws. Also, there are lots of laws on the books that discuss "quiet enjoyment of property" rights.

Bottom line, if someone wants a helipad in the backyard, it pays to do the research first.
 
Doc Holliday said:
It's not. Land fill is just one example. What if your neighbor decides to erect a steel building in his back yard and start a manufacturing facility? Should you "just mind your own business"?

Most people never consult local ordinances about LZ's. While some municipalities are silent on this, others have explicit laws. Also, there are lots of laws on the books that discuss "quiet enjoyment of property" rights.

Bottom line, if someone wants a helipad in the backyard, it pays to do the research first.
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It is, you are talking about starting a business on a residential property versus flying your own helicopter from your back yard in what appears to be a wooded area.
 
Grum.Man said:
It is, you are talking about starting a business on a residential property versus flying your own helicopter from your back yard in what appears to be a wooded area.
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Doesn't matter. If the laws or zoning prevent the use, it's the same thing. Then you have that "quiet enjoyment of property".
 
Doc Holliday said:
Doesn't matter. If the laws or zoning prevent the use, it's the same thing. Then you have that "quiet enjoyment of property".
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So are you going to file a complaint if someone has a gas lawnmower? I would argue that's significantly more annoying than the occasional helicopter departing or arriving.
 
Grum.Man said:
So are you going to file a complaint if someone has a gas lawnmower? I would argue that's significantly more annoying than the occasional helicopter departing or arriving.
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I had a helipad in my backyard a few years ago. I lived on 5 acres, and my pad ingress and egress was over a cattle pasture to my back. I consulted the local and state laws, which did not prevent me from having what is technically called a "heli stop". As long as it was used infrequent I was OK. But I also went to my next door neighbor and got his permission, as well as the owner of the cattle pasture. The rest of my property was surrounded by pine forest and thousands of feet from another owner.

Putting a heliport in a residential area without consulting local laws as well as state laws, or getting permission from surrounding owners is just stupid, and invites what the OP story contains.
 
Where I grew up Lenard Tose (Philadelphia Eagles Owner) use to land his helicopter in his backyard... He did it one night and ****ed of Hope Scott (Scott Paper) while she was relaxing... the battle ensued and Tose lost the battle... Guess the Scott's had more money...

Some real first world problems right there...
 
Doc Holliday said:
I had a helipad in my backyard a few years ago. I lived on 5 acres, and my pad ingress and egress was over a cattle pasture to my back. I consulted the local and state laws, which did not prevent me from having what is technically called a "heli stop". As long as it was used infrequent I was OK. But I also went to my next door neighbor and got his permission, as well as the owner of the cattle pasture. The rest of my property was surrounded by pine forest and thousands of feet from another owner.

Putting a heliport in a residential area without consulting local laws as well as state laws, or getting permission from surrounding owners is just stupid, and invites what the OP story contains.
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Kind of depends on what the local ordinances actually state, and how they may try to apply them to a situation not specifically covered. Nothing like applying a statute like "quiet enjoyment of property" to restrict any loud noise for any period of time. Willing to ban the 8-10 minutes of helicopter noise for a departure a few times per week, but allowing a revving muscle car engine or noisy pool party. In many instances, it's the application of a statute not directly related to the offense, and trying to make apply as all-encompassing for any time someone is unhappy with another person's behavior.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Kind of depends on what the local ordinances actually state, and how they may try to apply them to a situation not specifically covered. Nothing like applying a statute like "quiet enjoyment of property" to restrict any loud noise for any period of time. Willing to ban the 8-10 minutes of helicopter noise for a departure a few times per week, but allowing a revving muscle car engine or noisy pool party. In many instances, it's the application of a statute not directly related to the offense, and trying to make apply as all-encompassing for any time someone is unhappy with another person's behavior.
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When you are in the helicopter business, the first thing you learn is not everyone likes helicopters. Another facet of owning/operating helicopters is realizing that just because you can land almost anywhere, you can't if the law or public doesn't want it.

As a homeowner who has a place in his backyard to land his helicopter, and he decides to do this with disregard to ordinances or law, and disregard to his neighbors, and then gets popped by the local government, all I can say is good luck fighting it.
 
This is the kind of baloney Washington decides to spend its money on? Nevermind the pedantics of a neighbor a few miles away in a wooded area who doesn't like helicopters (hello, can two people not settle things on their own anymore?), but states have bigger issues than this.. massive homeless populations, drug abuse, rising housing costs, etc.

It's crazy.
 
Tantalum said:
This is the kind of baloney Washington decides to spend its money on? Nevermind the pedantics of a neighbor a few miles away in a wooded area who doesn't like helicopters (hello, can two people not settle things on their own anymore?), but states have bigger issues than this.. massive homeless populations, drug abuse, rising housing costs, etc.

It's crazy.
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So should the state just tell the complainant to buzz off, helicopters are cool?

Again, there's more to this than a short article is telling.
 
Tantalum said:
This is the kind of baloney Washington decides to spend its money on? Nevermind the pedantics of a neighbor a few miles away in a wooded area who doesn't like helicopters (hello, can two people not settle things on their own anymore?), but states have bigger issues than this.. massive homeless populations, drug abuse, rising housing costs, etc.

It's crazy.
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First of all, this is a county not a state that filed.
Second, the homeowner violated local ordinances.
Third, the homeowner was told no by the FAA.

So, the government should just ignore all of that?

Tim
 
SoonerAviator said:
Kind of depends on what the local ordinances actually state, and how they may try to apply them to a situation not specifically covered. Nothing like applying a statute like "quiet enjoyment of property" to restrict any loud noise for any period of time. Willing to ban the 8-10 minutes of helicopter noise for a departure a few times per week, but allowing a revving muscle car engine or noisy pool party. In many instances, it's the application of a statute not directly related to the offense, and trying to make apply as all-encompassing for any time someone is unhappy with another person's behavior.
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I live very close to a major hospital with a heliport. Give me a pool party or revving engine until midnight, over the random excursions of the helicopter at any and all hours.
 
tspear said:
First of all, this is a county not a state that filed.
Second, the homeowner violated local ordinances.
Third, the homeowner was told no by the FAA.

So, the government should just ignore all of that?

Tim
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Trying to avoid politics, and these things happen in my state / county - probably everywhere. But people shooting up drugs in the street is also illegal, and a bigger harm to the public health and safety overall than a noisy helicopter. If the county/state/whatever has a limited pool of resources, wouldn't it make sense to prioritize what they're going after. The dude with the helicopter coming and going from his home takes a lower tier of priority (I would think) then more pressing public safety issues. The resources to correct and prosecute all illegal actions is limited
 
Depends on which side of the fence you're on.

Story below from a real estate seminar..I have no proof if it's real, just passing along because I could see it happening and it illustrates another point... as does @Kenny Phillips post.

Man builds a new apartment complex, and is having great business.
City decides they are putting in an airport right next to it. He complains, they say suck eggs.
A few months later, he's broke and trying to sell an empty property.

So, you cannot decide to invade someone else's enjoyment of their property (which is subjective), while trying to enjoy yours, but the 'authorities' can invade everyone's because they decide to do so.

It's really a catch 22, simply because we all like/want different things in a lot of respects.

Anyhoo...
to put a happy ending to the story (except for the seller, but in the end, he still he sold it).... another guy swoops in, buys the apartment complex at a major discount, adds some modifications, and now it's fully rented creating somewhat of a community for the hearing impaired, who could care less about the noise.

Moral of the story: find a way to make your neighbors deaf if you want a heliport ;)

But the real story is, there isn't enough room for everyone to have everything they want.
 
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Using this article and situation as a harbinger - how will these issues play out in the not-too-distant future when the rumored predicted dozens of Urban Air Mobility electric autonomous VTOL taxis are landing and taking off in every suburban, near-urban, and urban neighborhood, with the frequency of today's cars going to work, school, grocery store and restaurants? How will people react?
 
G-Man said:
Using this article and situation as a harbinger - how will these issues play out in the not-too-distant future when the rumored predicted dozens of Urban Air Mobility electric autonomous VTOL taxis are landing and taking off in every suburban, near-urban, and urban neighborhood, with the frequency of today's cars going to work, school, grocery store and restaurants? How will people react?
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Not well.
 
Grum.Man said:
It is, you are talking about starting a business on a residential property versus flying your own helicopter from your back yard in what appears to be a wooded area.
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Tell the guy to buy the house next to you. I would be complaining if some idiot was operating a helicopter out of his back yard due to the noise.
 
Guy 2 houses down has a Harley. It's a loud mf'er..especially the way he drives it.
Totally legal even though the neighbors don't like it.

Is there a major difference...other than the helicopter would be less frequent (supposedly).

Also, major highway expansion going in at Henderson. Right through some properties. Gonna be loud as hell all day everyday.
Personally, I'd take the private heliport over that any day.

We're running out of room!
 
Clip4 said:
Tell the guy to buy the house next to you. I would be complaining if some idiot was operating a helicopter out of his back yard due to the noise.
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I would have absolutely no problem with it. Not like he is flying it 24/7. Certainly no worse than living in a neighborhood in the summer time to the constant drone of mower blades.
 
Clip4 said:
Tell the guy to buy the house next to you. I would be complaining if some idiot was operating a helicopter out of his back yard due to the noise.
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If the yard were large enough that he could operate it safely, I'd use that as my initial bargaining position and settle for him operating it with my silence guaranteed by free helicopter rides :)
 
Grum.Man said:
Certainly no worse than living in a neighborhood in the summer time to the constant drone of mower blades.
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To be fair, a helicopter is just a tad bit noisier than a lawn mower, so it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I get what you’re saying.
 
Ryanb said:
To be fair, a helicopter is just a tad bit noisier than a lawn mower, so it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I get what you’re saying.
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To be fair, the amount of time when continuous noise was being produced by a helicopter is probably less than half of the time when a mower is being operated.
 
Interesting. Looking at online zoning maps for Spokane Valley, it appears his house is outside the planning zone. Or at lease, the city does not designate his property with a planning zone and it is certainly outside the city limits.
 
Ryanb said:
To be fair, a helicopter is just a tad bit noisier than a lawn mower, so it’s not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I get what you’re saying.
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My dream is to live at an air park surrounded by 50 airplanes, so no a single helicopter coming or going a few times a day at most would not in the least be a bother. Rides would be required though.
 
I work with ordinances all of the time. Either follow the ordinance or change the ordinance. If he's outside the zoning, they can politely remove themselves from the situation. If his zoning doesn't allow it, request a variance.
 
Ryanb said:
To be fair, a helicopter is just a tad bit noisier than a lawn mower,
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Funny thing is there are a number of localities that prohibit the use of gas powered lawnmowers and equipment between the certain hours. Not really a big stretch to exclude helicopters. While not exactly relevant, just look at the issues Bruce Willis ran into when he tried to build his "private runway" in Idaho. And he was out in the boonies.
 
Ah, there it is. It's on the county map as a Low Density Residential. Yeah, sorry guy, but your property is not zoned for a private heliport. It has to be one of the Resource Land Zones, LTA (Large Track Agricultural), STA (Small Track Agricultural), or F (Forest). And then only one helicopter is allowed.

http://cp.spokanecounty.org/scout/map/?PID=44035.0306
 
Skyrys62 said:
Guy 2 houses down has a Harley. It's a loud mf'er..especially the way he drives it.
Totally legal even though the neighbors don't like it.
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Had a guy in our neighborhood doing the same thing... Couple next to us had twins and was expecting their third... every Saturday and Sunday he would roar it down the road and it wake them up from their naps... it was enough one day and she marched down to their house and complained.. we never heard that bike again...

Some, not all, Harley people can be real jerks sometimes...
 
I find it more interesting that he is listed as a student pilot according to the report.
 
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