Spins

Ron Levy said:
You can argue all you want about 61.415, but 61.195(b)(1) still applies -- if you don't have ASE on your CFI, you aren't an "authorized instructor" for non-LS airplanes. If you don't believe me, ask the FAA.
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This is what I got back from Gleim:

Dan,

Thank you for your question. This is a fairly common issue. According to 14 CFR Part 61.415, you can provide instruction in any aircraft you hold category/class privileges for. That would include a Cessna 150 given your example below. Also reference 14 CFR Part 61.313. When seeking airplane certification for the Sport certificate, applicants are not limited to LSA but rather to "a single-engine airplane." Again, your Cessna 150 is acceptable.

Can the student solo the 150, take the checkride in it, or fly it as PIC after being certified as a Sport pilot? No, but there is no preclusion, based on my reading of the regulations, that would prohibit training in it - either for the student (logging time) or the appropriately rated/experienced instructor with a sport pilot rating (providing instruction).

I hope this response is helpful to you. If I can offer any further assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you, have a great day, and fly safely!

Eric Crump, CFII/AGI
Aviation Editor
Gleim Publications, Inc.
4201 NW 95th Blvd
Gainesville, FL 32604
 
I also look at it somewhat different, The DE that is going to give the test was asked by my CFI if he could train me in the Taylorcraft as he does not have TW endorsement. The answer was no, but she said that he could do all the training in a 150 or 172.

Now look at it like this, all my training was done in a 150 so the training I am to give will be based on this experience. Not in an actual LSA. So if I get my endorsement to take the test from training in a 150... Like Jay I do not plan on instructing in a 150. This lesson is more about interpreting the regs or at least knowing where and how to find them.

Dan
 
stingray said:
This is what I got back from Gleim:

Dan,

Thank you for your question. This is a fairly common issue. According to 14 CFR Part 61.415, you can provide instruction in any aircraft you hold category/class privileges for. That would include a Cessna 150 given your example below. Also reference 14 CFR Part 61.313. When seeking airplane certification for the Sport certificate, applicants are not limited to LSA but rather to "a single-engine airplane." Again, your Cessna 150 is acceptable.

Can the student solo the 150, take the checkride in it, or fly it as PIC after being certified as a Sport pilot? No, but there is no preclusion, based on my reading of the regulations, that would prohibit training in it - either for the student (logging time) or the appropriately rated/experienced instructor with a sport pilot rating (providing instruction).

I hope this response is helpful to you. If I can offer any further assistance, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you, have a great day, and fly safely!

Eric Crump, CFII/AGI
Aviation Editor
Gleim Publications, Inc.
4201 NW 95th Blvd
Gainesville, FL 32604
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The Baltimore FSDO says Mr. Crump is wrong. They say that without an ASE rating on the CFI ticket, a CFI-SP cannot instruct in an airplane not legally flyable by a Sport Pilot (i.e., an LSA or a SP-eligible Standard category aircraft like a Cub). I've got a call in to Mr. Crump to find out whether he has information from the Chief Counsel which says otherwise. Y'all can take it to the Chief Counsel's office for a formal interpretation, but in the meantime, if they catch a SP-only CFI instructing in a C-150, they'll write him up and send it to the Regional Counsel for enforcement action.
 
stingray said:
I also look at it somewhat different, The DE that is going to give the test was asked by my CFI if he could train me in the Taylorcraft as he does not have TW endorsement. The answer was no, but she said that he could do all the training in a 150 or 172.
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If your CFI has an ASE rating, not just SP, that will work, but you won't be able to fly the plane yourself without complying with the Student Pilot rules in Subpart C. The issue I think your DPE is concerned about is the TW endorsement, which applies to all TW airplanes, including LSA TW airplanes.

Now look at it like this, all my training was done in a 150 so the training I am to give will be based on this experience. Not in an actual LSA. So if I get my endorsement to take the test from training in a 150... Like Jay I do not plan on instructing in a 150. This lesson is more about interpreting the regs or at least knowing where and how to find them./QUOTE]Since you do hold a PP-ASEL already, there's nothing to say you can't get your CFI-SP training or take the practical test in that 150, but the instructor training you will have to hold an ASE rating on his CFI, not just SP. Only SP? You'll have to train in something a Sport Pilot can legally fly as PIC.
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Ron Levy said:
The Baltimore FSDO says Mr. Crump is wrong. They say that without an ASE rating on the CFI ticket, a CFI-SP cannot instruct in an airplane not legally flyable by a Sport Pilot (i.e., an LSA or a SP-eligible Standard category aircraft like a Cub). I've got a call in to Mr. Crump to find out whether he has information from the Chief Counsel which says otherwise. Y'all can take it to the Chief Counsel's office for a formal interpretation, but in the meantime, if they catch a SP-only CFI instructing in a C-150, they'll write him up and send it to the Regional Counsel for enforcement action.
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Thanks Ron, Please keep me informed.

Like I said this is not about teaching in a 150 it is more about understanding the regs. And what part trumps another part.

Dan
 
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