Spin Endorsement???

[AEROBAT]

OK, this part of this AC may be one source of why some folks have such a problem getting a 172 to enter a spin - the power offpart.

I find using power, full power and partial power, during the entry helps get the airplane kicked into the spin entry.

To develop spin proficiency to the CFI level, spins must be mastered from any power condition, and most student accidental spin entries are from the power on stall- with not enough right rudder.

The 172, or 152 won't actually enter into a developed spin without forcing and holding inside rudder, but the upside down spin entry roll is what any 172 will do with full power and no right rudder.

So, to make it interesting and mix up the conditions and situations a student might do when practicing stalls, start a stall entry with about 1500 rpm and as you forcefully stomp the left rudder into the floor, and yank hard to try to pull the yoke into your guts, rapidly apply full throttle to enter into a spin.

Notice that the AC says to apply rudder before the stall. If you wait until the stall, it may not enter into the spin, but into a spiral.

Forcefully applying full rudder, and holding it hard, is what causes the left wing to rapidly retreat, and the right wing to rapidly advance, while the blast of slipstream from the suddenly applied power gives the rudder the authority to do this more demonstrably.

Also, the student who does not learn spin recovery from power on stalls will not have the "throttle off" automatic response built-in during the spin training.

Most modern (under 50 years old) airplanes are designed to resist true spins, but what happens from a badly coordinated stall is to roll upside down into a spiral, and if you don't automatically get the throttle back when you're upside down, the throttle just gets you to the ground faster.

Every thing you said I agree with. Most flight schools up here train with the 172 and it is hard to get them to spin when solo without a bit of power. The 150 on the other hand will spin nicely and if you hold pro-spin inputs for a few rotation they will lock into the spin and you can let go of the controls and it will stay in a stable spin mode.

The 172 will eventually fall out of the spin if you relax input.

 

[azure]

Cessna spun it, and recovered so it's been done. Thing is that IIRC "Normal" catagory aircraft aren't allowed to be spun, but utillity can

As Ron posted, they may not have tested it beyond one full turn since it's certified only as normal category. Would you flirt with a spin for training purposes in a plane that's placarded against intentional spins?

 

[Fearless Tower]

Thing is that IIRC "Normal" catagory aircraft aren't allowed to be spun, but utillity can

Not entirely true - PA28s are certified in both normal and utility but placarded against intentional spins.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm pretty sure that some in our FSDO don't read it that way.

Then show them the AC. If that doesn't work, have them call AFS-810 for official guidance directly.

 

[poadeleted20]

Not entirely true - PA28s are certified in both normal and utility but placarded against intentional spins.

Only the newer taper-wing models, I believe. I did some of my spin training 38 years ago in a PA28-140, which AFAIK is still legal for spins when loaded in Utility category.

 

[poadeleted20]

Cessna spun it, and recovered so it's been done. Thing is that IIRC "Normal" catagory aircraft aren't allowed to be spun, but utillity can

Not all Utility category aircraft are legal for intentional spins. For example, the Cessna 150 is, but the Grumman AA-5's are not. You have to check the TCDS/POH/placards to be sure.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Only the newer taper-wing models, I believe. I did some of my spin training 38 years ago in a PA28-140, which AFAIK is still legal for spins when loaded in Utility category.

Ok, ya got me....I guess I should have specified the PA28-161s are Utility without spins.