Southwest gets a turn in the spotlight

Forgot about the LGA event. Three “too low” “too low” deals. Houston we have a problem.
 
I guess they had another incident today. At least it made the talking heads talk on the 17:00 news.
 
Oldmanb777 said:
I guess they had another incident today. At least it made the talking heads talk on the 17:00 news.
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I think that was just the incident from Wednesday (the one in Oklahoma) as far as I can tell from searching news articles about it.
 
C’mon. This is Boeing’s fault. Their faulty software allowed this to happen. :D Bad Boeing!

Yes this is sarcasm :cool:
 
…and again…

viewfromthewing.com

Dangerous Error: Southwest Airlines Flight Departs From Closed Runway With Vehicle In Its Path - View from the Wing

A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 from Portland, Maine to Baltimore reportedly took off from a runway that had been closed this week - and there was a vehicle on the runway at the time.
viewfromthewing.com viewfromthewing.com

Between LaGuardia, Lihue, Oklahoma City, and now this, my buds at SWA are legitimately concerned that something really bad is going to happen.

If this was the Air Force, they’d probably have a safety stand down day, but I guess you can’t do that at the airlines.
 
Sluggo63 said:
…and again…

viewfromthewing.com

Dangerous Error: Southwest Airlines Flight Departs From Closed Runway With Vehicle In Its Path - View from the Wing

A Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 from Portland, Maine to Baltimore reportedly took off from a runway that had been closed this week - and there was a vehicle on the runway at the time.
viewfromthewing.com viewfromthewing.com

Between LaGuardia, Lihue, Oklahoma City, and now this, my buds at SWA are legitimately concerned that something really bad is going to happen.

If this was the Air Force, they’d probably have a safety stand down day, but I guess you can’t do that at the airlines.
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The pilot's stated they didn't see any marking for the closure so they took off.

From the airport standpoint, I've always hated the window of time when we were closing or opening the runway. There is always be a period during which the closure NOTAM is active and crews are on the runway setting up or taking down the closure markings. You always have to have your head on a swivel watching for pilots that either didn't read or in this case ignored the NOTAM because there was no X telling them not to.
 
Article states that ATC could not reach the aircraft on the CTAF frequency... so they took off with no ATC, and no communication on the CTAF frequency?
Can't be...right?
:eek:
 
tobnpr said:
Article states that ATC could not reach the aircraft on the CTAF frequency... so they took off with no ATC, and no communication on the CTAF frequency?
Can't be...right?
:eek:
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They would have been talking to Center to get their ATC clearance and IFR release. Possibly forgot to switch back to the radio tuned to CTAF.
 
tobnpr said:
Article states that ATC could not reach the aircraft on the CTAF frequency... so they took off with no ATC, and no communication on the CTAF frequency?
Can't be...right?
:eek:
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SWA departed a few minutes before KPWM tower opened. With the caveat that LiveATC has considerable limitations, there is no evidence from LiveATC archives that SWA was using CTAF unlike other departing airliners (which used runway 36). Appears it was airport ops attempting to contact/warn SWA about the closed runway.
 
Larry in TN said:
They would have been talking to Center to get their ATC clearance and IFR release. Possibly forgot to switch back to the radio tuned to CTAF.
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I would think if they did that, Center would have told them they were on the wrong freq....assuming they either announced on CTAF or attempted to contact Tower.

Giving the crew the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if they had the CTAF/CT freq misdialed?
 
Where was the big flashing X??? Lighted barricades? Or was it just closed for noise abatement? If the latter, then sorry for buzzing your houses bruh.
 
texasclouds said:
Where was the big flashing X??? Lighted barricades? Or was it just closed for noise abatement? If the latter, then sorry for buzzing your houses bruh.
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I believe they were removing them as the runway was scheduled to reopen when the tower opened two minutes later. That's presumably why an airport ops vehicle was on the runway.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I would think if they did that, Center would have told them they were on the wrong freq....assuming they either announced on CTAF or attempted to contact Tower.

Giving the crew the benefit of the doubt, I wonder if they had the CTAF/CT freq misdialed?
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Possible but there should have been some clues.
- Not hearing the two RJs on the CTAF that had pushed back and were moving toward active runways.
- If transmitting required surface movements on the wrong frequency (e.g., Boston Center), SWA should have received a reply about being on the wrong freq.
- If SWA departed at time 45 as claimed in the CNN article, the tower would have been open and a take-off clearance would have been required.
 
Larry in TN said:
They would have been talking to Center to get their ATC clearance and IFR release. Possibly forgot to switch back to the radio tuned to CTAF.
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It’s likely that they got their release by phone.
 
Jeff767 said:
It’s likely that they got their release by phone.
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Why? 34 years at this job and I've never received an IFR clearance/release by phone for a part 121 flight. FSS, by radio, only a handful of times.

My company (10-7) pages for PWM says to obtain clearance from PWM Departure, Boston Center, or Bangor Radio (120.9). Wouldn't resort to calling unless all of those failed.
 
Personally I don't consider LA2213 the standard by which we should be waiting for before responding to this "seasonality of imprudence" SWA happens to be on. As such, I welcome the unmoderated public pressure.
 

SWA was aware of the NOTAM, but thought the runway had opened. Regardless, taking off with Center clearance- and not being on CTAF? They would've been in the dark (literally and figuratively) as to any traffic in or near the pattern, makes no sense to me.
 
tobnpr said:

SWA was aware of the NOTAM, but thought the runway had opened. Regardless, taking off with Center clearance- and not being on CTAF? They would've been in the dark (literally and figuratively) as to any traffic in or near the pattern, makes no sense to me.
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That's even worse. If the runway was open, that meant that tower was open, and they took off without takeoff clearance from a controlled airport.
 
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