Southwest back in the news

jordane93 said:
You plebs should just fly first class. Stop being so poor:D
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Or your airline should just increase seat pitch or width, or quality of service; whatever metric you choose, but not charge more for it. Neither is realistic. Most of us have to live within our means.

Nauga,
who can't always get what he wants
 
Just curious if anyone knows but if you go to Sun and Fun in zephyrhills, there is an old 727 flown by piedmont airlines. If you walk in the cabin the seating (I think) is supposed to resemble flying in the 1970's. It is ridiculously more roomy then I have ever seen. Does anyone know if this was the actual seat design or did they change it so people can walk through more comfortable?
 
nauga said:
I am presently >9000 miles from my home base, flew here commercially. How long would it take to fly here in whatever non-commercial carrier you have access to?

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Nauga,
from where it doesn't suck
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Is that S/Y 'A' in your photo ? Looks beautiful there.
 
Sierra_Hotel said:
Behind the exit row, window seat with no seat in front. I'll fight anyone for that seat.
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I love having A1 or some kind of rip off early bird boarding to find that seat is already taken when I'm the first one on the plane. What a joke. Then there was the time when they started boarding 5 minutes early and when I got to the gate 2 minutes prior all the "business" select were already on the plane. They knew they dorked up and the next time I flew they called me to the counter to award me points.
 
I think the problem is that the seats seem to be getting worse. I know my entitlement is slow to adapt to new realities during this race to the bottom :D

We were in England a few weeks ago, on United nonstop from SFO. The coach seats in the back of the 787 had all of the comfort of hollowed-out corn cobs, no legroom, and we were miserable, and the two of us did not have a middle seat companion. We contemplated what a return would be like if all 3 seats were booked, and were dismayed.

After landing, we upgraded our return to their polaris seats. Way better, obnoxiously so actually. Quadrupled the cost of the return.

A middle option would be neat. "Coach Classic" or something -- I think that's what they're trying to do with their premium economy (or economy plus, I can't keep them straight) -- but those were sold out. I don't feel like I should need to pony up extra multiples of a fare just so I can bring my knees with me on my trip, and retain feeling in my hams. Yet, that's airlines today.

At some point I will agree that the problem also lies in my being american-sized. But it's not like I'm flying a southeast asian airline and kvetching about tiny seats.
 
Having retired from SWA the summer of 2020 after taking a pandemic-driven early retirement offer (that was just too good to refuse), I can attest to the overly-long history if IT related and overall operational issues. We thought the lesson was learned in 2014 after the Chicago Midway meltdown of January that year (over 30 airplanes on the ramp waiting for gates) which drove the establishment of the Network Operations Center (NOC) which at the time really was, or at least close to, state-of-the-art. Operations greatly improved in that there was a cohesive "all-seeing and knowing" element that could make proactive decisions regarding real-time events before they could have drastic cascading effects.

But as the company grew and a couple hard-fought labor contracts later, the shine of the original company culture was fading, with work groups often working against each other to make their metrics work. Less emphasis seemed to be made on the LUV spirit that was still prevalent in the early 2000s when I came on board. The IT problems were always one step ahead of the efforts to fix them, leading to the situation that exists now. And the IT issues in the news with regard to crew scheduling is made even worse by wasteful scheduling practices that further compound the system overload when disruptions happen. On top of that, the pilots are now three years overdue for a contract whose negotiations are getting very contentious. A strike authorization vote is coming up in May, a first in the history of the company.

Having said that, I doubt many of these issues (staffing, customer service, etc.) are unique to SWA and can be seen industry-wide. Most of the cabin (and cockpit) crew still retains that old culture and tries to do their best with the tools they're given. My wife is still a SWA flight attendant and puts her National Cathedral Chorus soprano singing voice to use in the cabin on occasion (along with a few others)! The airplanes are still nice overall with few maintenance issues (the old "classics" are long gone), the training is excellent, and I really enjoyed flying the MAX.

Hopefully the company gets their act together, exits the denial stage, and truly invests in what needs to be done not only in technology, but operational philosophy in general.

Cheers, Allan
 
nauga said:
Or your airline should just increase seat pitch or width, or quality of service; whatever metric you choose, but not charge more for it. Neither is realistic. Most of us have to live within our means.

Nauga,
who can't always get what he wants
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Guess you missed my:D:D:D:D. So here’s a few more:D:D:D:D
 
kmacht said:
Southwest used to be my go to airline but it seems like after the pandemic their prices are through the roof and they are no longer the deal they used to be. I don't mind not having a selected seat or some of the fewer amenities compared to other airlines but I also expect a lower or at least equal price. The only thing they still have going for them is they are still not charging extra for bags.
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My experience has been they have seldom been cheaper. They got their reputation when they advertised cheap fares, but without advertising the taxes and fees. It took Congress passing a law to stop them from doing that.

At least FINALLY, Delta listened to me. And now you can get the long nonstops (JFK, ATL, MSP, DTW) to HNL with an international configuration with lie flat seats. It made no sense to have those on a 5.5 hour flight Europe, but not on a 10+ hour flight to Hawaii.
 
francisco collazos said:
Just curious if anyone knows but if you go to Sun and Fun in zephyrhills, there is an old 727 flown by piedmont airlines. If you walk in the cabin the seating (I think) is supposed to resemble flying in the 1970's. It is ridiculously more roomy then I have ever seen. Does anyone know if this was the actual seat design or did they change it so people can walk through more comfortable?
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On narrow body aircraft, the seat width has stayed pretty much the same, as it is limited by the cabin width. You can't make them narrow enough to put another seat per row.

On the wide bodies, they started 3-3-3 seating with descent width. But they figured where was enough room to go to 3-4-3 making the seats narrower. Some airlines (KAL for one) still run their wide bodies at 3-3-3.

The seat pitch (space between rows) has gotten smaller over time. If they make that shorter, they can put in more rows. And again, some airlines (KAL again) have more room.

When the 747 first came online, there were two areas of club seating with a table in Economy. So you could go there and sit across from someone and play cards (they even supplied the playing cards). That went away fairly quickly. :D But then again, the early 747s, the upper deck was a lounge for First Class. Later version lengthened the upper deck and put more seats in.

I have been flying on airliners since the 50s. :D
 
Larry in TN said:
Where did the extra room go on airplanes like the 737, and 707/727 which had the same cabin width? They've been in a 3x3 configuration since they were introduced int he 1960s. Did then aisles expand?
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Don’t be a butt hole Larry. Facts are not allowed when ranting about evil profiteering.
 
What is this "flying commercial" of which you speak?
:goofy:
The last time I had to fly for IBM it was on the Shuttle (727) from LaGuardia to Washington DC.
I think it cost me $25.00? I was the only passenger on the plane.
 
Shuttle was $49 in the mid to late 90s.
 
I'm based in the DFW area and I have tried multiple times to fly SWA. Every time I look at prices (biz and personal) they are usually higher than any legacy. And flying with family with random seats is a no-go for me.
 
I recently was pricing some flights for a friend. It was the first time I found that SW was cheapest By $3 and no assigned seating.

A couple of years ago, a friend was going to fly SAN - MSP and return. Delta was $240 cheaper round trip, and was non-stop. SWA was plane change in DEN.
 
Southwest doesn't fly into my town and the closest airport with SWA is a 3 hour drive. So I really haven't had much to do with them for a while. It's usually AA to DFW and connect or UA to ORD and connect.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Sometimes that's the case. However, I'm not usually too bothered by sitting 6 rows back instead of the front row. It makes little difference in the amount of time it takes to get off of the plane.
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Small secret - when there are empty seats, rows 4-6 are usually the last ones to fill up the middle seats. A few from group C come on and jump in the front rows. The rest go to the back trying to get an aisle or window seat. They start filling in the empty seats from the back forward because the grab the first seat they can find. Plus, the first 2 overhead bins are smaller and baggage has to go sideways to fit, so there isn't as much of it and rows 4-5 is where the full size bins start.

I flew SWA for years and saw this same loading pattern over and over. Because I'm mostly done with them, I'll share the wealth.
 
bflynn said:
Small secret - when there are empty seats, rows 4-6 are usually the last ones to fill up the middle seats. A few from group C come on and jump in the front rows. The rest go to the back trying to get an aisle or window seat. They start filling in the empty seats from the back forward because the grab the first seat they can find. Plus, the first 2 overhead bins are smaller and baggage has to go sideways to fit, so there isn't as much of it and rows 4-5 is where the full size bins start.

I flew SWA for years and saw this same loading pattern over and over. Because I'm mostly done with them, I'll share the wealth.
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I'm well aware. Pretty much the entire aircraft fills up with people grabbing the aisle and window seats until those are taken, then the remaining passengers have to choose which middle seat row they want to intrude on. When you're stuck in that situation you find row with the two skinny people, lol. If you're already seated, then you and your seat mate in the 3rd seat try to look bigger and not make direct eye contact with those trying to decide on which middle seat to choose.

But again, it wouldn't be much different for me in most cases with an "assigned seat" as I would be stuck next to someone in the middle seat anyway. I'm not usually so late getting on the aircraft that I had to choose a middle seat. I was A-list plus for years.
 
jordane93 said:
Delta is def not cheaper today. I hear the prices are insane.
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It depends. On the flight. The day you travel. The time of day your travel. It always has.

Just tried that flight, SAN - MSP for May 24 - 29. SW is $228 - $516, with a connection. Delta is $478 non-stop.
 
Ouch, ranked below Frontier is saying something.

*Edited* :lol: Hold on, any list that puts Spirit as #2 needs to be seriously questioned :rofl:
 
Worst flight I've been on recently has been Frontier. Frontier's seats were tiny, with wooden cushions and didn't recline. And they charge for anything they can.
Nicest flights I've had, most comfortable, actually serve real food with metal silverware were Iceland Air and Lufthansa. Seats were comfortable, watched movies the whole way. Served wine. In coach.

The food on the Lufthansa flight was interesting. The packaging, cups, silverware was designed to be washed/reused or recycled instead of just thrown out.
 
bflynn said:
Small secret - when there are empty seats, rows 4-6 are usually the last ones to fill up the middle seats. A few from group C come on and jump in the front rows. The rest go to the back trying to get an aisle or window seat. They start filling in the empty seats from the back forward because the grab the first seat they can find. Plus, the first 2 overhead bins are smaller and baggage has to go sideways to fit, so there isn't as much of it and rows 4-5 is where the full size bins start.

I flew SWA for years and saw this same loading pattern over and over. Because I'm mostly done with them, I'll share the wealth.
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I usually get in A or early B. I've been tempted to sit in an empty row middle seat and see what happens. Maybe next time.
 
UngaWunga said:
Worst flight I've been on recently has been Frontier. Frontier's seats were tiny, with wooden cushions and didn't recline. And they charge for anything they can.
Nicest flights I've had, most comfortable, actually serve real food with metal silverware were Iceland Air and Lufthansa. Seats were comfortable, watched movies the whole way. Served wine. In coach.

The food on the Lufthansa flight was interesting. The packaging, cups, silverware was designed to be washed/reused or recycled instead of just thrown out.
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Pretty much all international flights are back to at least wine and beer for free in coach. And many are back to metal utensils and reusable plates and cups. The change to plastic utensils was not a cost thing, it was a post 9/11 thing. For a while it was bizarre, that they would take away your pocket knife, but then give you a larger blade knife on board.

It was the US carriers that dropped alcohol in coach, but then one airline started back and the others followed. Many non-US carriers have liquor in coach for no charge.
 
I've used SWA mostly for quite a while, most recently last fall to Maine. Now that I travel for fun, we usually have checked bags. On SWA that's included. On Frontier and Spirit everything is ala carte and it's usually more expensive by the time you're done. On American and Delta, bags cost money-now on some fares, even a carry on costs extra. Jet Blue is pretty nice, but doesn't go a lot of places I do. The foreign flag carriers (Lufthansa, British Airways, Sweden (don't remember the name) are all much nicer.

I don't mind the seat thing on SWA-but I'm not usually in a tearing hurry any more. I don't mind sitting in the back.
 
jsstevens said:
I've used SWA mostly for quite a while, most recently last fall to Maine. Now that I travel for fun, we usually have checked bags. On SWA that's included. On Frontier and Spirit everything is ala carte and it's usually more expensive by the time you're done. On American and Delta, bags cost money-now on some fares, even a carry on costs extra. Jet Blue is pretty nice, but doesn't go a lot of places I do. The foreign flag carriers (Lufthansa, British Airways, Sweden (don't remember the name) are all much nicer.

I don't mind the seat thing on SWA-but I'm not usually in a tearing hurry any more. I don't mind sitting in the back.
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I always sit way in the back. Takes awhile to get off the plane, but so what. My checked bags never beat me to the baggage claim.
 
Southwest has been my family's airline first choice for most flights to visit our families. I personally never had any issues with seating even though every once in a while my wife or I have been seated separately a row or two away. No big deal, especially on short flights. Usually have a cool flight attendant crew. Jetblue has been good to us too. I pay more to avoid spirit and frontier though.
 
luvflyin said:
I always sit way in the back. Takes awhile to get off the plane, but so what. My checked bags never beat me to the baggage claim.
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I think you're more likely to survive a plane crash while sitting in the back. Bonus!
 
UngaWunga said:
I think you're more likely to survive a plane crash while sitting in the back. Bonus!
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Yeah, they got stats about that. As recall it's not a big difference. Didn't pan out for the two girls in the back of the infamous Sum Ting Wong, Wi Tu Lo, Ho Lee Fuk flight though.
 
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