Southern NM in summer

TexasAviation

TexasAviation

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TexasAviation
Any pireps on flying in southern New Mexico in the summer?

My sister lives in Deming, and I'm wanting to fly the family out for a visit this summer from the Dallas area. It looks like lots of interesting airspace around El Paso and White Sands Missile Range.

I've never flown in the desert or near mountains. I know to expect and plan for crazy-high density altitudes, but it's the thermals I'm more worried about. From the descriptions of summertime desert flying, it sounds like worse turbulence than I've ever experienced out in East Texas. And with kids in the plane, I'm not sure how well their tummies could handle hour after hour of getting tossed around.

Are there certain weather trends that can mean smoother air out there, so I could plan to go on a day when conditions are best? It's about a five hour flight with one fuel stop in the Archer.

I'd prefer to travel in daylight, but a flight that long would mean at least part of the trip would be through really hot temps.
 
Early morning and later in the evening usually mean smoother flying. Thunderstorms build up during the mornings and you can normally see them so no surprises. The mountains aren't normally too bad when the wind is calm or light. Sneaking around the restricted areas around White Sands can be troublesome too.....I normally flew down from ABQ so I didnt have to deal with that. Once you are out along the Rio Grande things are pretty straightforward and Deming is pretty simple to get in and out of.

Frank
 
It will be bumpy; less so under high cloud cover.
Early mornings are best.
Interesting old junk airliners to see at Roswell, if you ever wanted to land on a really long runway.
 
Early morning departure, you will miss the worst of it, ie 7:00am
Pit stop at Andrews E11.
Stay south of White Sands, talk to El Pay-so approach.
Youd have to really wander for the balloon to be an issue.
 
Depart as early as possible...like 0500 if you can! Get in as much flight in the cooler air as possible.

From DFW...go to El Paso which keeps you south of the Restricted areas and away from the higher terrain. You can cross over/through ELP at 6500 going westbound. ELP Class C very easy to get through...nice controllers. Once clear of KELP to the west, you'll transit along the border for a bit and south of the mountains. Some nice views. Then turn NW and you'll be about 60NM from Deming.

The summer heat once you get out into the desert can give you some substantial thermal bumps...but usually nothing that will rip the wings off. :D

If there is any moisture around...the T-storms (if/when they come) are instigated by heating, and thus tend to pop up in the afternoon, but then can sustain well into the evening and night time hours. Of more concern can be the winds. When they blow...they really blow. Deming not a bad place even if breezy as there is a 8/26 and a 4/22 runway. When the winds kick up they will typically be 220* - 280*.

If you need a fuel stop before getting to KDMN, I'd suggest Francis Aviation at 5T6 (just the other side of the mountains from KELP). Full serve and self-serve available and about $1/gallon less than KELP.

Hope that helps.
 
Darn it...I started the reply and then got caught up on a phone call with a student as Dave was providing you a good answer! But I would still leave as soon as you can to avoid the really wicked heat that can kick in anytime after about 1100. :D
 
Mike Bruening! How are you doing!?

Mike ^ is one helluva an instructor down there!

Anyway, leave as early as you can, morning are rather smooth but the wind and heat picks up no later than noon and the sky can turn very unfriendly rather quickly. When the wind picks up, it brings the sand up with it and visibility gets bad quickly. (story time) I remember one instance down there I took off in a bonanza to Northern NM from EP around 10:30 and it was smooth air, by the time I hit Alamogordo I was in strong turbulence and halfway up the state I had to climb to over 12k feet just to stay vfr due to sand. When I finally got to Raton thewind was 3x what it was forecasted and about 15 minutes after i landed a dust storm came in.

Moral of the story, leave as early as you can and expect weather to be up to 3 times worse than it is forecasted. After noon, all bets are off. And whatever you do don't fly in front of a fast moving cold front. I later learned that is what I did that one late spring day...

You will want to stop at 5T6. The people and facility there are outstanding. The desert in those parts are really like nothing else, spectacular in its own way.
 
Early morning for sure. Lots of restricted space, but no big deal. I wouldn't really worry about the Mountains. Here's a video from around Deming. LOTS of open area, hundreds of miles of great landing opportunities.
 
Lots of good advice here but I will add thst DA isn't usually a problem in southern NM. Winds can be, but NM has crosswind runways at most of its airports, KDMN included.

Don't even Bother trying to get permission into the restricted areas. Never happens there.

Your pinch point is KELP. Whatever you do, don't brain fart and pass south of the city.
 
TexasAviation said:
Any pireps on flying in southern New Mexico in the summer?
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Leaving at 530 your time is 430 our time. Not sure what you're flying, but if it is near 130 knots that'll be a 4-5 hour ride, getting in before noon if no fuel stop necessary. Put PECOS in your flight plan (for fuel if necessary), Van Horn lists no fuel by sectional, but its there and you have to get the sheriff on field to pump for you (real pain in the arse).

If good on fuel and westerly winds, try to pass about 15 miles south of Salt Flats VOR will keep you out of the lee wind TB coming off of Guadalupe Peak. Guadalupe Peak can be wind and weather checked during flight planning by entering GDP or KGDP (there are weather instruments on the peak).

El Paso APP has new controllers. First time in 600+ hours I was directed more than 9 miles into Mexican airspace on flight last weekend (they have an LOA).

CT4ME said:
PS: 'suggest a trip to Carlsbad caverns while you're there. KCNM is an interesting airport. Same for KROW. Roswell alien festival is over July 4th. http://www.ufofestivalroswell.com/
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Carlsbad airport and the Caverns are not close to one another. I don't think they have a crew car, but I haven't been there in 2 years. They do have rentals. Hotels in Carlsbad are way over-priced.
 
I have been through some of the White Sands Rspace, very very rare as you suggest-but on some holidays you can.
 
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Just got back from a trip to Carlsbad caverns last weekend. Impressive.

If your kids are 12 or over you can take the "hall of the white giant" tour. Offered once a week for 8 people only. You get to squeeze into some small places.
 
Don't let everyone scare you. Sure, there is less turbulence and TS activity in the morning, but even if you fly over in the heat of the day, it's not the end of the world.
 
dans2992 said:
Don't let everyone scare you. Sure, there is less turbulence and TS activity in the morning, but even if you fly over in the heat of the day, it's not the end of the world.
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I don't think anyone is trying to instill fear.

I grew up flying in the southwest. There is a difference between fear and unpleasant. Flying across the southwest in a light airplane in the heat of a summer's day is certainly survivable, but hardly a pleasant experience, particularly if you have non-pilot passengers onboard.
 
CT4ME said:
Early morning for sure. Lots of restricted space, but no big deal. I wouldn't really worry about the Mountains. Here's a video from around Deming. LOTS of open area, hundreds of miles of great landing opportunities.
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Yes, lots of landing opportunities, as long as you don't need to use the plane again!

From the ground, much of that flat stuff isn't quite so smooth ... ;)

Wonderful area to fly in, though. Seems like about 350 VFR days/year, if you can put up with the winds.

13982276823_a555d061e9_c.jpg


4978177033_565f4e2842_b.jpg
 
Fearless Tower said:
I don't think anyone is trying to instill fear.

I grew up flying in the southwest. There is a difference between fear and unpleasant. Flying across the southwest in a light airplane in the heat of a summer's day is certainly survivable, but hardly a pleasant experience, particularly if you have non-pilot passengers onboard.
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I've been flying out here for 15 years, and I fly at the time of day most convenient for my schedule.

Honestly, the inconvenience of a ridiculously early departure far outweighs the inconvenience of a little turbulence.
 
dans2992 said:
I've been flying out here for 15 years, and I fly at the time of day most convenient for my schedule.

Honestly, the inconvenience of a ridiculously early departure far outweighs the inconvenience of a little turbulence.
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As someone that suffered serious bouts of air sickness when I flew out of New Mexico (KAEG was my home base) - once you get used to it, it is fine. But until you do, it is a good way to ruin the rest of your afternoon and sometimes the next morning.
 
dans2992 said:
I've been flying out here for 15 years, and I fly at the time of day most convenient for my schedule.

Honestly, the inconvenience of a ridiculously early departure far outweighs the inconvenience of a little turbulence.
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If flying by myself, I might agree with you. But the OP was talking about taking family. That is a good way to cure family of wanting to fly with you again.

If you want all your future flights to be solo, just take the family up on a warm afternoon from Pecos to Tucson with a stop in El Paso. That should do the trick. They'll probably ask for an airline flight back.
 
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danhagan said:
Carlsbad airport and the Caverns are not close to one another. I don't think they have a crew car, but I haven't been there in 2 years. They do have rentals. Hotels in Carlsbad are way over-priced.
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They do have courtesy cars but you aren't allowed to use them to go to the caverns. They do have rental cars available at the airport.
 
This is over Roswell looking toward Sierra Blanca last August. The afternoon before we had to divert and spend the night in Midland after the SIGMETs for convection kept getting extended. Our planned morning departure had been delayed by a dr appt. When we finally arrived at Ruidoso they said we had definitely made the right call.
 

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dans2992 said:
Don't let everyone scare you. Sure, there is less turbulence and TS activity in the morning, but even if you fly over in the heat of the day, it's not the end of the world.
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No one is trying to scare anyone ... I fly quite a bit on XC and live in El Paso. This past weekend called for clear (CAVU) at Austin and El Paso with 20% isolated TS focused at FT Stockton and south from there. Ozona and Van Horn also supposed to be CAVU.

Once airborne I was forced to deviate from a basic I-10 route all the way north to Odessa-Wink-Carlsbad. TB was moderate plus throughout Pecos-Wink area with several 2-3 extremes. Commercial flights were also getting hit as CB's were towering to 45k. Everybody between San Angelo and El Paso were deviating for TS activity. I had to reduce throttle to 2000 RPM at least a dozen times and to full idle twice, not fun ... am glad no pax on board as that would've been there last flight. I departed Austin at 10am (9am El Paso). TS activity at FT Stockton was not supposed to occur until 2pm. Tiger takes 3h45m for that route. Time in TB 2 of the 4 hours.
 
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