Somebody took my 430W

T

thito01

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Aug 10, 2020
Messages
224
Location
Central Florida
Display Name
Display name:
Tony T
Long, long, story. Many things should have been done differently:
In January of 2017, I was going though some financial issues due to having to move for a new job and having two house payments. I took on good friend (we worked for same company) as a minor partner for my aircraft. Let's call him Joe for now. Joe had his private and was working on his IFR. He was previously in a 3-person partnership until one of them forgot to put the gear down. He was located in Chattanooga and I was in central Florida so we moved the aircraft his old hanger in Chattanooga at a very small airport.
In transit to Chattanooga, the aircraft developed a gear issue so it was taken to the shop that had maintained his previous aircraft because of that previous relationship. For some reason, it took 3 months to get the aircraft hydro-pack rebuilt (PA32R-300). During this time, the aircraft was left on the ramp and not hangered.
The next time I flew the aircraft was when I was at the company headquarters in Chattanooga in Nov of 2017, but I only was in it for about 30 minutes doing some take-off and landings. When I first started the aircraft I noticed that the terrain card was missing. Joe said "It's always been that way, so I thought it was normal."
Unfortunately, my partner never did get his IFR and seldom flew the aircraft due to work and home schedules.
Move forward to Feburary of 2019.
I was getting ready to move the aircraft back to Florida and he went out to the aircraft and found that the Xerion engine monitor would not light up. An email to the manufacturer resulted in finding out that they had discontinued support.
Many delays happened at this point. A new engine monitor was purchased at Sun-n-Fun of 2019 but was not delivered till Jan 2020. While I should have been pressing the dealer, the real problem was that the small airport where the aircraft was located did not have an A&P so the plane either had to be moved or an A&P had to work most of an hour from his base. The original plan was to ferry it over. Let's just say that the FSDO first said one thing, then required something else, then changed it's mind again to the point that they wanted all the original engine guages re-installed just to ferry it 24 air-miles. This took over a year! Finally, in Mar 2020 the A&P got so fed up with the FSDO that he agreed to eat the trip-charges if I would let him work on it at his convenience. I agreed. Then Covid hit.
Some side issues, which will be important later. 1) The Sandel SNS-3308 EHSI was de-laminating. The A&P found a used one, at a decent price, and with the updated software for the GNS-430W interface so it was replaced. 2) I also had to have the GTX330 updated for to GTX330-ES. I had actually sent the GTX330 in to Garmin in 2019 and got the update performed. And, 3) I decided to add a GLD52R for ADS-B Out.
The aircraft was finally ready to fly in Dec 2020 and I planed to get it in Jan. Jan 2, 2021, I had a complete unary track lock-up that put me in the hospital for a couple of days with sepsis. Then a TRUP (roto-rooter job) in March. (No cancer, and I never had a high BPH. Due to almost 3 months on a catheter, my recovery took a while and so I had self-grounded until July.
The first weekend of Aug, I was just one hour from the aircraft for my first grandson's first birthday so it was arranged that the A&P would fly over, pick me up, and I would take him home before bringing the aircraft back to Florida. I got a bi-annual and a Basic-Med and waited for the aircraft.
After he picked me up, as we climbed out, the landing gear would not come up, so we landed and he took the aircraft back to his shop. It was a valve problem that took a lot longer than it should have because the first replacement valve was also bad so they kept looking for some other problem before replacing the new valve.
One thing I noticed during this short flight was that the screen on the 430w was starting to de-laminate. Because I had had declamation problems with the Sandel, I figured it was just age on the 430. The shop talked to Garmin and they will still replace the screens.
I did finally get the aircraft back this last weekend.
But, some other things were 'popping up':
1) The shop was having issues getting the GNS430W to actually interface with the SNS3308. I actually sent them photos of the old configuration screens from just after the GNS430W and GTX330 was installed 2008 so they could try to make them match. The final conclusion was that the GNS430W needed a newer level of software to support the newer level of software on the SNS3308. (I no longer think that is the issue.)
2) The GNS430W was reporting 'missing devices' on the buses. The shop just assumed that I had had something removed in the past so did not mention it to me. It was not until I was flying the A&P back to his base this weekend that I saw the messages and I asked about it. He said he thought it was normal because my partner said he thought it was normal.
3) I discovered that the database card in the GNS430W was missing a mark I put on mine. I had an 'A' card and a 'B' card that I swapped back and forth. Each was labeled with a small 'A' or 'B'. While my partner had been updating the card data, he had not been paying attention to the marks I had made.

So, today it dawned on me to check the serial numbers of the GNS430W. I have owned the aircraft since 2005 and was the owner that had the WAAS update performed. The logbook entries, in two places, indicate a serial number of starting with '97' while the unit that is now in the aircraft starts with '96'.

So, now it appears that back in 2017, most likely when the aircraft was in the shop for 3 months, my GNS430W was taken and another GNS430W was put in it's place. My partner did not have but a few hours in the aircraft so did not think anything about it. During my short flight in late 2017, I was worried about the missing terrain card and did not notice or look for any other messages. The current shop was not concerned with the 'missing bus connections' because my partner told them he was used to seeing them. We just were not saying the right things to raise the correct red-flag.

Another small item. When I re-started a database subscription with Garmin (not Jeppesen as in the past) this Aug, I needed a serial number so I asked the A&P for it. He sent me a picture of the back end. So, I registered my subscription with the 'wrong' unit and not the 'right' unit serial number.

Now what is my next step? Should I contact Garmin and report the original serial number as stolen? What could they even do even if they had someone currently subscribed with that serial number? Is this a claim I need to report to my insurance agent considering that I believe that it happened 4 years ago? Reporting to LEOs also seems out of the question due to the time-frame.

Garmin has quoted a $1500 cost for fixing the screen and updating the software, but now I don't know if they will find something else wrong with it when they bench-test it, and what that would cost me (FYI, software is V5.30.)
 
Sorry to hear. You can certainly report it stolen. It sounds like someone “swapped “ theirs for yours. Did you run the serial number of the one in your plane to see if it was also stolen? Did you file a police report?
 
Sorry to hear that. It's really sad people do that. When I got my GNX375 installed, having never messed or bought avionics before, I was shocked to learn that only 1 screw held it in the tray. You could steal it in about 20-30 seconds with the right screwdriver size. I have worried about this. I lock my plane doors even when in my private hangar to try and make it harder, but I understand that even Cessna only has like 4 different key sets so someone in the stealing business likely has one of my keys anyway. I usually also try to put up my windscreen heat shields to block people from seeing my avionics on ramps.

I would definitely report it as stolen to Garmin and at the least it would stop them from getting repairs or upgrades from Garmin. Of course it could be sold on ebay or craigslist fairly easily.
 
It is a common practice with radio thief’s is two swap out radios from different aircraft. They grab radios out of aircraft 1. Then swap aircraft’s 1’s radio with aircraft’s 2 radio. Aircraft 1’s owner reports his radio serial number stolen and aircraft 2 does not realize that he has aircraft’s 1’s stolen radio, so the thief has a radio to sell that is not reported as stolen.
 
Overnight, I got to thinking. I always thought that it was strange that it took 3 months to get the hydo-pack fixed. I wonder if that shop used my radio for a WAAS upgrade to shorten the time, then had his upgraded and put his in my aircraft when it came back. But messed up the setup. That shop also knew that my partner had just taken possession of the aircraft and may have thought "new owner would never know".
I am going to contact Garmin today and see what they know about both units.
Tony T.
 
I always tell people, the GA aircraft business in general makes the used car sales business look like the sainthood in comparision. Tony, I hope you get some satisfaction out of this ordeal. As an inhabitant of southeast Tennesse, I'd certainly like to know of the small airport and the shop, if you don't mind. If you don't want to publicly name names, a PM would be awesome!
 
Given the history you posted, I surprised all your radios weren’t stolen. What I read in your story is you weren’t engaged in the ownership of the plane for 4 years. Moral of story, if you can’t afford the plane sell it.
 
Clip4 said:
Given the history you posted, I surprised all your radios weren’t stolen. What I read in your story is you weren’t engaged in the ownership of the plane for 4 years. Moral of story, if you can’t afford the plane sell it.
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As I said, things were not done right. The original contract was 2 years and then I would be returning his small investment and re-obtaining full ownership. Which happened. So the 4 years would have only been 2 if the Xerion engine monitor did not fail at the worse time, just before returning the aircraft home. And, me being medically grounded the first half of this year did not help either.
While I was having to pay two house payments for about a year, I was not unemployed and was still making money, so I was more looking at it as 'someone would at least be flying the aircraft instead of sitting in my hanger". And, it would be helping a friend get his IFR.
I have made bigger mistakes in my life, but keeping this aircraft instead of selling it was not one of those mistakes. It's a good bird. I just need to get this avionics issue squared away.
 
A small update. I went out to the plane today and compared all the config screen pics from 2008 after the WAAS and Mode-S updates. I now know that this radio has been in an aircraft with ADSB-in installed via the serial ports. (Main RS232 Config shows Chnl 1 as "ADSB TFC WX" on both in and out.)
I think c177tx may be right. This may have been a double-steal situation.
 
I hate your situation, its not like a dragnet will be thrown out it and might even chaff another innocent owner that has it in their plane but maybe someone unscrupulous in the chain will get their titty twisted.
Got your receipts?
For sure file a PoPo report. You'll need for any ins. claim anyway. For date of loss you can put a range, "sometime between x and Y" but too far back and the ins. might be void from time. I wouldn't bother calling out the police just find out where to go to and fill out a report there.
Who handles such a theft, interstate and all, FBI? I mean if they cared enough.
 
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If you fly your airplane with regularity and have stored flight plans, it become obvious real quick if someone has swapped a unit.
 
I want to remind Chip, and others, that the aircraft was in a locked hanger except when in the shop. No overnight cross-countries during this whole time. My home shop always has the aircraft inside, even during extended down times such as fuel tank issues. The shop currently resolving the engine instrumentation issues also kept it inside once they were able to fly it from where the failure had grounded the aircraft. So, the only time that I can't verify that it was in a locked hanger was with the shop that took 3 months to fix the gear in 2017 and later that same year when that same shop did the annual.
I guess I have a new standard for any shop that work on the aircraft from now on.
Tony T.
 
Is is possible that the shop was working on more than one 430 units at the same time, both were on the bench, and they they made the simple (but not acceptable) mistake of picking up the wrong unit to install in your plane?
 
The CX80/GNS480 had a feature where it could display your name/tail#/whatever on bootup. Did Garmin get rid of this feature for later boxes?
 
WDD said:
Is is possible that the shop was working on more than one 430 units at the same time, both were on the bench, and they they made the simple (but not acceptable) mistake of picking up the wrong unit to install in your plane?
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No. There has been no authorized radio repairs since the WAAS upgrade in 2007.
asicer said:
The CX80/GNS480 had a feature where it could display your name/tail#/whatever on bootup. Did Garmin get rid of this feature for later boxes?
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If I remember it correctly, the GNS480 was originally from another company (II Morrow) that Garmin acquired. Different lineage.
Tony T.
 
I had the remote gyro in an HSI system stolen while the plane was in for avionics shop. It started acting up during a trip to Idaho where the gyro wouldn't lock. I took it to a different shop who found that a)the serial number was not the one that was installed originally, and that it was full of "Radio Shack" parts and bad solder joints. It was a 2.5 AMU repair job to get it rebuilt.

Crooks...
 
I originally was not going to mention this, but have changed my mind. Remember that when the aircraft first got to Chattanooga the hydro-pack failed and it took 3 months for it to be 'repaired'? I had to have it repaired again during a recent annual because it was really slow. The new A&P that did this work said that the seals were not new and the unit did not look like it had been rebuilt in a long time. So, the unit was not rebuilt so we suspect that a used unit was acquired. I just don't know if the Chattanooga shop did it or the repair shop they sent it to. And, maybe my unit was so bad they had to replace it instead of rebuilding it, which I can understand. But, as far as I knew, I paid to have the unit rebuilt.
Tony T.
 
bbchien said:
Please name the shop so that we don’t use him. Or email it to me from my website link so that I don’t use him....
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Yes, please, I live here, and want to know the shop. PM me if you must. Please don't let other airmen get taken by shoddy practices!

EDIT: If PM'd, I promise I will not publicly reveal the name of the shop.
 
scarcherpilot said:
I would definitely report it as stolen to Garmin and at the least it would stop them from getting repairs or upgrades from Garmin. Of course it could be sold on ebay or craigslist fairly easily.
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Does it really stop them? Does Garmin care? I don't think they do.

I know eBay doesn't care. I told them my Bose headsets, Garmin GPS, and other items were stolen from my hangar. I had a good idea who had them and they had sold similar items on eBay. They told me there was nothing they could do and they wouldn't get involved. Even if I had a serial number, they said they have to assume the person selling it didn't steal it, they may say I sold it to them or someone else sold it to them. Essentially what I heard is, they don't care and if they stopped people from selling stolen items, they would go out of business.
 
Lowflynjack said:
Does it really stop them? Does Garmin care? I don't think they do.

I know eBay doesn't care. I told them my Bose headsets, Garmin GPS, and other items were stolen from my hangar. I had a good idea who had them and they had sold similar items on eBay. They told me there was nothing they could do and they wouldn't get involved. Even if I had a serial number, they said they have to assume the person selling it didn't steal it, they may say I sold it to them or someone else sold it to them. Essentially what I heard is, they don't care and if they stopped people from selling stolen items, they would go out of business.
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eBay is not a manufacturer so not a fair comparison imo. They would have to have a huge staff to deal with that alone
 
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Salty said:
eBay is not a manufacturer so not a fair comparison imo
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I'm not exactly comparing them, but I think they take a similar stance. I don't think they would refuse someone a database update because someone reported a unit stolen. Has anyone ever had Garmin do this? Their website sounds like they're just covering their backside. Denying someone an update could cause an accident.

I Believe My Device Has Been Stolen.
If you think your device is missing as a result of criminal activity, we suggest contacting your local law enforcement office through their non-emergency phone number to file a police report.

In some cases, a lost device may be turned in to law enforcement. We suggest you inquire with them to determine if a device like yours has been turned in.

When appropriate conditions are met, Garmin will assist law enforcement with an investigation regarding stolen, lost, or recovered property.

Local law enforcement may request assistance by visiting Law Enforcement Inquiries.
 
Update:
For those wondering about which shop, I have been told that management has changed since then, so I don't want to name the shop.
Garmin does not have any records for the 430W in the logbooks nor for the 430W currently in the aircraft. They say they purge things over so-many years old.
There is still some thoughts that maybe the serial number in the logs may be wrong and it was just 'borrowed' for a few months while someone else had theirs worked on, and just not reconfigured correctly when it was "returned". It was definitely configured for a different aircraft, but nothing seems wrong with it (except for the screen de-lamination which I think happened latter.)
Next step is to send it to Garmin for a screen and loose my ADSB-out for 2 months. :-(
Tony T
 
thito01 said:
Update:
For those wondering about which shop, I have been told that management has changed since then, so I don't want to name the shop.
Garmin does not have any records for the 430W in the logbooks nor for the 430W currently in the aircraft. They say they purge things over so-many years old.
There is still some thoughts that maybe the serial number in the logs may be wrong and it was just 'borrowed' for a few months while someone else had theirs worked on, and just not reconfigured correctly when it was "returned". It was definitely configured for a different aircraft, but nothing seems wrong with it (except for the screen de-lamination which I think happened latter.)
Next step is to send it to Garmin for a screen and loose my ADSB-out for 2 months. :-(
Tony T
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Did the change in serial number create any problems with installing database updates?
 
No. Back when, I used Jeppesen which did not require a serial number. When recently started using Garmin updates, I used the serial number sent to me in a pic by the A&P. I did not use the serial number in the log books.
Tony T.
 
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