Solution to GA dying?

[bbchien]

GA is dying because it isn't a practical mode of transportation, or an affordable means of entertainment for the masses.

Solutions to GA dying (or a damn good start)

1. If an FAA regulation does not measurably increase safety or reduce the cost of flying, it should be rescinded.

2. Heavily reduce tort damages/litigation. Put common sense back in court rooms.

Unfortunately, neither is the philosophy of the current administration.....

 

[dmccormack]

Here is my take...the general public doesn't see flying as fun. Think about it. Their perception of flying is based upon a crammed commercial flight. The only other thing they know about aviation is that small planes fall out of the sky because there was no flight plan.
So right off, you lose most people.

Most people I have talked to about flying say they don't like being high up.

Given 10 Common Phobias I'd say fear of heights is the reason most people don't want to learn to fly.

Couple that with the cost, the time requirement, the need for public speaking (ever wonder why so many students have "Mic Fright'?) and you have lots of hurdles to clear.

The only way to overcome those hurdles is motivation.

 

[p1l0t]

Wait till it costs $100 just to enter controlled airspace..

<---<^>--->

 

[hindsight2020]

Read a great article the other day in PlaneandPilotmag.com regarding LSAs. While LSAs will never be the perfect match for everyone, they do satisfy many of the issues raised in this forum. Lower purchase price, lower fuel costs, lower maintenance costs, etc...

LSAs, coupled with a strong push for shared ownership and flight clubs are what this industry ordered.

Easy Ownership: The Great LSA
Paradigm shifts happen...and we’re right in the middle of one!
http://www.planeandpilotmag.com/aircraft/lsas/easy-ownership-the-great-lsa.html

120,000 for the priviledge of cruising <120 kts, you can't be serious right? Everybody knows LSA was pitched as the populist solution but market forces drove it into what it is today..a pay to play scheme for the failing medical bulk of previous spam can aircraft owners. And they are the only ones willing and motivated to pay extortion racket money for a diminished performance platform that keeps them in the air. The rest is the more money than knowledge crowd that, andI agree with this, values new interior and aesthetics over a 40 year old cracked plastic contraption with poor insulation. LSA is a boondogle. "Lower" in this case is not low enough to make a case for itself.

 

[Anthony]

120,000 for the priviledge of cruising <120 kts, you can't be serious right? Everybody knows LSA was pitched as the populist solution but market forces drove it into what it is today..a pay to play scheme for the failing medical bulk of previous spam can aircraft owners. And they are the only ones willing and motivated to pay extortion racket money for a diminished performance platform that keeps them in the air. The rest is the more money than knowledge crowd that, andI agree with this, values new interior and aesthetics over a 40 year old cracked plastic contraption with poor insulation. LSA is a boondogle. "Lower" in this case is not low enough to make a case for itself.

I absolutely agree with all of this, but will add this caveat. LSA is also the FAA's way of getting us out of IFR flight, and controlled airspace, and using GA as a mode of transportation. LSA's are typically just around the patch flyers, with limited use as transportation due to their weight and speed restrictions.

 

[dakota-cowboy]

Most people I have talked to about flying say they don't like being high up.

Given 10 Common Phobias I'd say fear of heights is the reason most people don't want to learn to fly.

Couple that with the cost, the time requirement, the need for public speaking (ever wonder why so many students have "Mic Fright'?) and you have lots of hurdles to clear.

The only way to overcome those hurdles is motivation.

There it is..
9. Pteromerhanophobia:

• The fear of flying.

The problem is that a phobia can not be overcome if you don't know what it's real name is and especially until you have practiced spelling it.

 

[Dr. O]

The comment about 'immediate gratification' being endemic among young adults now is well placed... Due to the immediate gratification of endless computer games, the internet, texting, tweeting, and schools' no child left behind mindset that simply lowered the standards to shift the bell curve so that everyone is now a college candidate, MTV, and a myriad of other sensory inputs from our high tech society, these kids (for the most part, not all) expect to get an immediate result (and feel-good strokes to boot) and if they do not they throw a tantrum and storm off to their computer for an endorphin hit for their brain...

This does not bode will for our society... Asia, where there is endless pressure on the children to excel in math and science will eat us in the end... Look at our OWS folks, a significant percentage of which attend college/university and major in things like Art History, etc. and now are throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their 'strokes' out in the real world... It is going to get worse as the 12 year old today is 22 and graduating with a useless degree, where as employers need Master Plumbers, welders, diesel mechanics, etc...

denny-o

 

[dmccormack]

There it is..
9. Pteromerhanophobia:

• The fear of flying.

The problem is that a phobia can not be overcome if you don't know what it's real name is and especially until you have practiced spelling it.

Those terms were designed so psychologists can speak in hushed tones to colleagues, trip up undergrads on tests, and justify charging $150/hour.

 

[Bob Noel]

There it is..
9. Pteromerhanophobia:

• The fear of flying.

The problem is that a phobia can not be overcome if you don't know what it's real name is and especially until you have practiced spelling it.

What's the fear of spelling long medical words?

 

[p1l0t]

The comment about 'immediate gratification' being endemic among young adults now is well placed... Due to the immediate gratification of endless computer games, the internet, texting, tweeting, and schools' no child left behind mindset that simply lowered the standards to shift the bell curve so that everyone is now a college candidate, MTV, and a myriad of other sensory inputs from our high tech society, these kids (for the most part, not all) expect to get an immediate result (and feel-good strokes to boot) and if they do not they throw a tantrum and storm off to their computer for an endorphin hit for their brain...

This does not bode will for our society... Asia, where there is endless pressure on the children to excel in math and science will eat us in the end... Look at our OWS folks, a significant percentage of which attend college/university and major in things like Art History, etc. and now are throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their 'strokes' out in the real world... It is going to get worse as the 12 year old today is 22 and graduating with a useless degree, where as employers need Master Plumbers, welders, diesel mechanics, etc...

denny-o

All I heard was 'immediate gratification.' LOL, no I agree, I guess this would furter your point anyway.

<---<^>--->

 

[p1l0t]

Oh and you want to talk about a useless degree.. my major was Professional Pilot...

<---<^>--->

 

[ClimbnSink]

I call BS. Lots of hardworking kids out there. OWS is a bunch of morons but small % of kids compared to how many boomers went off the work hard delay gratification reservation. Blaming computers and kids sorry you have to do better than that. Problem is ours not someone else's.

The comment about 'immediate gratification' being endemic among young adults now is well placed... Due to the immediate gratification of endless computer games, the internet, texting, tweeting, and schools' no child left behind mindset that simply lowered the standards to shift the bell curve so that everyone is now a college candidate, MTV, and a myriad of other sensory inputs from our high tech society, these kids (for the most part, not all) expect to get an immediate result (and feel-good strokes to boot) and if they do not they throw a tantrum and storm off to their computer for an endorphin hit for their brain...

This does not bode will for our society... Asia, where there is endless pressure on the children to excel in math and science will eat us in the end... Look at our OWS folks, a significant percentage of which attend college/university and major in things like Art History, etc. and now are throwing a tantrum because they are not getting their 'strokes' out in the real world... It is going to get worse as the 12 year old today is 22 and graduating with a useless degree, where as employers need Master Plumbers, welders, diesel mechanics, etc...

denny-o

 

[jasc15]

In response to the instant gratification generation arguments: a little humor. (and some defense of my generation.)

 

[denverpilot]

Oh and you want to talk about a useless degree.. my major was Professional Pilot...

<---<^>--->

I'd give that a +1, but it's more like a -$65,000. Or is it higher these days? I'm scared to ask.

I thought I'd get off light if I continued in the early 1990's and I would only be -$20,000 after working three jobs to pay for the degree, and I would still have another $20,000 in flight time needed to get to a job.

ROI and break-even was 7-8 years away if I got lucky and got hired in that cycle's hiring downturn.

Aviation isn't easy if you're "cash and carry" at that age. Takes a lot of $7/hr jobs with $10.50 overtime to pay for that highly-specialized education and flight hours. Overtime all weekend AND pizza. Wow. I was in hog-heaven.

I was floored at my first technical biz paycheck after I was hired to travel and fix things. And back then I had no idea how much they were underpaying me.

I got up to speed and learned the stuff I should have known and they underpaid me for a couple of years. It was a good trade.

Young folks in today's economy don't necessarily have it that easy, but I hope they do. Earning both money and an education on the job is a great way to get started. You don't get much sleep though. There's manuals to read, code to write/tinker with, OSs to load, always more to learn.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Here's something that will really pump up GA!

I came in about dark yesterday and was fueling my plane near our little terminal building before putting it away. A guy came out to tell me that Tuesday at 3:00 they will be having a meeting about the airport and want as many hangar tenants as possible to attend.

I don't know the details yet, so I might have this JassAck backwards. I understood him to say that there are state funds to be used to improve the airport. The obvious thing to use these funds for would be to fix up our runway that looks and feels like it's been through several mortar attacks.

What they are talking about doing with this money is building hangars that they can rent. Here's the real kicker. Since the hangars would be built with these funds it would be required for the hangar renter to have $400,000 in liability insurance.

Does this sound like something that will promote GA at our little airport?

Doc

 

[dmccormack]

Since the hangars would be built with these funds it would be required for the hangar renter to have $400,000 in liability insurance.

Does this sound like something that will promote GA at our little airport?

Doc

The last three hangars I've rented have all had a proof of liability insurance requirement.

 

[MBDiagMan]

The last three hangars I've rented have all had a proof of liability insurance requirement.

How much did they require? I have liability insurance, but I'm not sure how much I have.

 

[JesseD]

Unfortunately, neither is the philosophy of the current administration.....

It's hasn't been the philosophy in general for a long time. As the "Fourth Estate's" star ascended further, they had been trying to find their way with TV early on but hit with the Kennedy / Nixon debate, they became more sensationalist. People couldn't process moving images of horror as easily, but couldn't turn them off either. The media became moved more and more by advertising dollars, and unusual sells.

How does this affect the FAA? They became (and much of the public as well, but for different reasons) more risk averse. A car crash is common, heck unless it's horrific it doesn't end up on the news. A plane "crash"? That's a much rarer occurrence. Now that's news! Played up, sensationalized, news all for the ratings. People, responding as they do, ask "FAA, why aren't you preventing this horror! Why those (big or little) planes might kill us. PREVENT IT! So what happens? More rules.

It's a rondo, but look at 9/11. A horrific thing happened, but how did people respond? Make us safer, damn our principles and the constitution they cried! That's simplified, but look how that same effect affected affected GA, even though it's an illogical connection.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Anthony]

I think Jesse nailed it.

We (GA pilots) are now put into the perceived position of being "anti-safety".

 

[dmccormack]

How much did they require? I have liability insurance, but I'm not sure how much I have.

ummm.... $500k, IIRC.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Crazy thoughts... I've had crazy thoughts about this for a while... with the advent of hybrid cars, could an electric powerplant with enough battery on board to handle 45 minutes of flying and a very small turbine running Jet-A recharging it, be viable?

No.

120,000 for the priviledge of cruising <120 kts,

120,000? That's enough to buy nearly half a dozen. How many LSAs do you need???

 

[p1l0t]

I'd give that a +1, but it's more like a -$65,000. Or is it higher these days? I'm scared to ask.

I thought I'd get off light if I continued in the early 1990's and I would only be -$20,000 after working three jobs to pay for the degree, and I would still have another $20,000 in flight time needed to get to a job.

ROI and break-even was 7-8 years away if I got lucky and got hired in that cycle's hiring downturn.

Aviation isn't easy if you're "cash and carry" at that age. Takes a lot of $7/hr jobs with $10.50 overtime to pay for that highly-specialized education and flight hours. Overtime all weekend AND pizza. Wow. I was in hog-heaven.

I was floored at my first technical biz paycheck after I was hired to travel and fix things. And back then I had no idea how much they were underpaying me.

I got up to speed and learned the stuff I should have known and they underpaid me for a couple of years. It was a good trade.

Young folks in today's economy don't necessarily have it that easy, but I hope they do. Earning both money and an education on the job is a great way to get started. You don't get much sleep though. There's manuals to read, code to write/tinker with, OSs to load, always more to learn.

Well, yes, I have been working full-time as a CNC Machinist to pay for it all (and part-time as a CFI for the last 4 years). My BS is paid for, my only loans are for the Master of Aeronautical Science I just started at ERAU Worldwide [I never learn, lol.]. That and I have a mortgage to pay. I have enough experience to meet American Eagle's minimums but I can't live on 25k/year. I feel fortunate in some rights, not that I am rich by any stretch of the imagination but that I had two jobs and doing online classes and flight training with local schools, and in the flying club I got off cheap and debt free. But there are people out there spending well over $100k in flight training and tutition when its all said and done to make $25k a year... and I bet the majority (I won't say 99% haha) took loans out to cover the costs. I can't imagine trying to pay off that kind of a note and surviving at all. Heck, I have relatively little debt and I couldn't possibly live on less the what I could get taking a job at the Burger King within walking of my house.. ****, it makes more sense for me to do that and just get rid of my car, haha. I could live a nice simple life... lolz


<---<^>--->

 

[High_Flight]

Hi!
I've been lurking on this site for a while now and this thread really caught my attention.

First of all, I am not yet a pilot. I have wanted to fly since I was 2 years old, but about a week ago I decided that now is the time to really go for it. I'm super excited. However, reading this thread made it seam like if I'm not pulling in 5 figures a year, I'm not flying. This is insane! I can tell you all that, as a member of that lazy, instant-gratification group (24 years old), cost is ABSOLUTELY the biggest hurdle. I want to do this so bad it hurts, but I simply cannot live if I spend the kind of money you guys are talking about.

When I looked up prices for new planes, my eyeballs nearly came out of my face. When I looked up prices for used Cessna Skyhawks from 1976... those eyeballs rolled further away.

I'm still going to check out potential instructors and flight schools in my area, but I'm a lot less sure now than I was a few hours ago. And believe me, I will travel an hour and a half for flight lessons gladly. But the money is a brick wall.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Natty,

I would advise that you use this desire as your motivation. Work hard toward the goal and budget your money. You'll get there!

Doc

 

[JesseD]

Hi Natty,

Cost is a HUGE issue for GA (as demonstrated both by you and this thread) but you can do a couple of things to help yourself.

Flying clubs often offer lower price rentals and, once you're done with your PPL, possibly even shared ownership.

If you haven't yet, take a some time to look at your finances and see if there's unneeded expenses you can eliminate.

Even owning (the plane) may not be the best choice for you. Plane engines need to be run, regularly. If you can't fly about 100hrs a year (not as easy as it sounds factoring in weather, and the learning curve you'll have in dealing with it, be conservative at first) you're probably not a good candidate for sole ownership. Good news, in a way, as joint ownership can be significantly cheaper. Realizing this, it might save you a lot of money.

Depending on your handiness (with tools) you might be able to build an experimental plane. This could cut costs significantly, but will greatly increase time to obtain it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Hi!
I've been lurking on this site for a while now and this thread really caught my attention.

First of all, I am not yet a pilot. I have wanted to fly since I was 2 years old, but about a week ago I decided that now is the time to really go for it. I'm super excited. However, reading this thread made it seam like if I'm not pulling in 5 figures a year, I'm not flying. This is insane! I can tell you all that, as a member of that lazy, instant-gratification group (24 years old), cost is ABSOLUTELY the biggest hurdle. I want to do this so bad it hurts, but I simply cannot live if I spend the kind of money you guys are talking about.

When I looked up prices for new planes, my eyeballs nearly came out of my face. When I looked up prices for used Cessna Skyhawks from 1976... those eyeballs rolled further away.

I'm still going to check out potential instructors and flight schools in my area, but I'm a lot less sure now than I was a few hours ago. And believe me, I will travel an hour and a half for flight lessons gladly. But the money is a brick wall.

What do you want to do as a pilot?

Go from point A to point B and back in the absolute minimum of time?

Just fly for the joy of being in the air?

What you want to do will have a big impact on what it costs.

Not everyone needs a new airplane will full glass, 4+ seats, etc. Some of us are content to plod along in a little aircraft with minimal instrumentation / radios just because we like to fly. Check out the asking prices for Fly Babys...

But some people don't see the point of flying if they can't go 140+ knots - "might as well drive" - really.

Another alternate is a glider club. Some can be VERY low cost - but you will be spending a lot of time doing the things that help keep the costs down. (Money or time) http://ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp

A lot depends on what you really want to do.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Depending on your handiness (with tools) you might be able to build an experimental plane. This could cut costs significantly, but will greatly increase time to obtain it.

If you want to build, build. If you want to fly, buy. Many used homebuilts are sold for less than the cost of the materials.

 

[wabower]

Some perspective based on first-hand experience:

The subject matter discussed in this thread didn't "just happen" and has been a long time coming. The proposed solutions are mostly far-fetched wishful thinking with no basis in economic reality. The industry will continue to evolve but a resurgence to anything like we've known in the past has two chances and Slim left town.

I started pilot training after HS in 1957. The cost of an hour's flight time was equivalent to a day's wages. Same approximate ratio as today, just different numbers.

Of the 90 people in my HS graduating class, I can't name another person that ever obtained any pilot credentials. The country was between wars (after Korea and before Viet Nam) and military flying was down as a result.

I didn't have any aviation-specific goals or any money, just thought flying was fun and having a license would be neat. If anybody had asked for a specific reason why I thought the rating would be neat, or what I planned to use it for, I'm not sure I would have had a good answer. Trying to explain why I was willing to pay for it would have been even harder.

The trainers were mostly old and ratty, most built before WW-II. Nobody bitched about the interior finish, since there were no interiors. Starter, battery and electrical-system maintenance issues were non-existent, since the planes didn't have them. Ditto avionics.

The FBO's were indistinguishable as such, most were just a walled-off corner of a hangar with a counter and a couch you were afraid to sit on and a toilet seat that was even worse. The schedule book was usually a Big-Chief tablet. Some had a pole sign by the road, most had a hand-painted plywood sign screwed to the exterior wall of the hangar.

The instructors were all WW-II veteran military pilots. If you think today's group is obstreperous. opinionated and demanding, you should have been around for that side-show. They bitched constantly that students were cheating by using the new-fangled technology "Omni's" for navigation rather than dead reckoning and paper charts.

Ground school, audio and video training, practice tests, etc. didn't exist. The FAA didn't publish the bank of questions, so every test was a new experience. I bought a Jepp CR-3 whiz-wheel with an instruction book and somebody's ground-school study book. The CFI's position was that a student needed to be able to figure this stuff out on his own if he wanted to be a pilot, so no help was available for the written.

With only summer-job money to pay for flying, I finished the PPL in 1961. The only reason I finished was so that I could tell prospective employers that I liked to finish what I start. The primary benefit to me was that for the first time I had to learn to study on my own without teachers, mentors, or anyone else to help figure it out. Not that the material was that difficult, but it was all new and a bit mystifying at first. I'm still proud of the 78 score on the PPL written.

The first plane I bought was a 1964 C-172 that was a couple of years old. We paid $26,000, it's probably still worth that today.

When I started auditing the Beech plant in 1964, a new Lincoln cost $6,000; a new S-35 Bonanza was $36,000. I was determined to figure out why the cost of the airplane was 6x the cost of the car. After six weeks at the plant, I wondered how Beech could sell a hand-built labor-intensive airplane at any price. I don't know what the Lincoln is worth today, but the Bo is worth at least twice the original selling price.

The GA business grew nicely until the late 70's when the first big post-war recession and high interest rates basically killed the business. Then Cessna bailed out until congress passed the statute of repose, other manufacturers cut back, and the business was in the ditch. For the most part, it's still there.

I bought a new T-210 in 1981 for $130k, took delivery in January 1982. Almost exactly five years later my partner was killed in our other airplane, and the 210 was valued at $67k (50% of original cost). In 1999, at the peak of the GA market prior to the 9-11 meltdown, I sold it for $180k. Blue Book retail today is ~$140k.

The industry has experienced a few bright spots since then, but a number of recessions, terrorists attacks and the worst credit crunch in our history have wiped out any gains. Over the years I've owned all or part of 30+ airplanes. All have sold for more than I paid for them, but I'm not optimistic about the two I have now. Of those that have sold, the sale vs. purchase price disparity is obviously only a small part of the cost equation. The total own/op costs far outweighed the profit at the time of sale.

In 1992, I attended a mixer where were required to recite a short list of our wildest dreams. My list included flying a G-IV, the biggest airplane in the GA fleet at the time. Eighteen years later I was co-captain of a later version (G-V) flying international trips around the world. Go figure.

The reason I was eligible to move into bigger airplanes was that I thought BFR's were boring as hell so I pursued a new rating each time one was required, rather than rehash the same stuff over again. So when the opportunity arose for the IP jobs at the training center that culminated in flying the jets, I had most of the ratings including single and multi ATP and CFII in hand. Just one more example of the old Chinese saying about opportunity, luck and preparation.

Looking at today's environment vs. the one in which I started, I think the biggest differences are the number of other activities that compete with flying and a heightened perception that flying is dangerous. I'm not sure whether it's more or less dangerous than it was 50-some years ago, but public opinion seems to have swung against us.

 

[High_Flight]

@Doc - Thanks!

@Jesse - Thanks. Those are some real good suggestions, I'll look into them. I was actually looking at building a Kitfox or an RV-6.

@Light and Sporty Guy - I want to fly for the sake of flying. Taking a friend or two out plane camping or cross country would be tremendous amounts of fun (I think). I agree with you. I don't need glass (especially since the database costs are so high and the charts won't be free anymore) and I don't need a leather lined interior. I want a plane with flaps, ailerons, a rudder and elevator and a spinnin prop in the front that will take me wherever I want to go.

Why are people so afraid of flying? I honestly don't know of any epiphanic idea that hasn't already been mentioned. However, I think if you could get more kids to realize how magical flying is, it would be a big boost for the future of GA. I don't only mean take up kids who go to airshows, they already have the seeds of interest. I mean kids who never considered airplanes to be more exciting than the telephone pole outside. If we could find them and have programs to show them the magic, THAT would do a world of good.

But, as Wayne so articulately mentioned, this just wishful thinking and won't be possible without a massive, coordinated effort by the entire GA community.

 

[Gerhardt]

I don't always agree with the old man, but he nailed it today.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Flaps? If you want an airplane with flaps, you need something fancier than what I got. :wink2:

 

[Anthony]

I think the world has passed the recreational/personal travel of GA by. Its not something many people want to do anymore, not considered "cool" by many except us fanatics, and perceived as pretty much unnecessary (except in Alaska) by most people. Let's face it. In reality it is a SIGNIFICANT investment in money, time and effort to learn to fly, then stay proficient, and own and maintain an aircraft.

Our culture is going away from personal responsibility, and doing things the right way in many regards. In GA you may be able to not doing it right for a while, but it will eventually catch up with you, and all the BRS parachutes in the world won't make it safe for the terminally undisciplined.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Being afraid of flying is rational. If the risk is the same as a motorcycle, that is not insignificant. The reason a lot of people survive is simply because they don't fly enough hours to give the dice a good roll.

@Doc - Thanks!

@Jesse - Thanks. Those are some real good suggestions, I'll look into them. I was actually looking at building a Kitfox or an RV-6.

@Light and Sporty Guy - I want to fly for the sake of flying. Taking a friend or two out plane camping or cross country would be tremendous amounts of fun (I think). I agree with you. I don't need glass (especially since the database costs are so high and the charts won't be free anymore) and I don't need a leather lined interior. I want a plane with flaps, ailerons, a rudder and elevator and a spinnin prop in the front that will take me wherever I want to go.

Why are people so afraid of flying? I honestly don't know of any epiphanic idea that hasn't already been mentioned. However, I think if you could get more kids to realize how magical flying is, it would be a big boost for the future of GA. I don't only mean take up kids who go to airshows, they already have the seeds of interest. I mean kids who never considered airplanes to be more exciting than the telephone pole outside. If we could find them and have programs to show them the magic, THAT would do a world of good.

But, as Wayne so articulately mentioned, this just wishful thinking and won't be possible without a massive, coordinated effort by the entire GA community.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

We put newbie pilots in a/c that are least able to help them out in a jam, like inadvertant vfr into imc. We had one lucky son of ben post about it here on this board. Such mistakes could be made a lot more survivable, but the FAA won't let the technology be deployed at reasonable cost. IMHO, the FAA is a major part of the problem.
Of course, we'll always have a certain percentage of pilots who will keep on killing themselves and others. The bell curve is what it is.

 

[Amelia]

Several thoughts:
1. GA IS expensive, right out of the gate, and the training takes a big commitment of time AND money. Many people think they can't afford it, ignoring the fact that they can afford all sorts of things that are as expensive as flying lessons- cruises, vacation condos, nice new luxury car with all bells and whistles, golf, boat, club memberships, handsome clothes, the latest and greatest computer/phone/video gadgetry. Individually they may not cost as much, but they do add up to a lot of money over the course of a year. Life's all about choices, but people forget that they can choose to drive a clunker, have less fancy logos on their shirts, stop at one beer, eat out less often, make do with a smaller TV, less cable... (insert your favorite economy here.)
2. GA is dangerous, and pilots are irresponsible lunatics. What, don't you even read your daily paper, or tune in the evening news? I explain to people my view- that with good training and good maintenance, regular brush-ups, and conservative decisions, it doesn't feel all that dangerous. And besides, there are fewer drunks texting on their cell phones, disciplining their kids, fighting with their spouses, and hurtling toward me at a closure rate of 140 mph up there in the sky.
3. We need a much harder look at our training syllabi and CFI standards. Too many people get discouraged by the haphazard lesson plans, the difficulty of scheduling both aircraft and instructor to fly on a regular basis, the sometimes scarily shoddy maintenance, and the boring routines, unrelieved by fun- like landings at unfamiliar airports, $100 burgers after an hour of airwork, flying in suboptimal weather to learn how to deal with it.
4. What the nonflying public is missing most of all is what GA sold so effectively in the '50s and '60s- FREEDOM! Glorious slipping of surly bonds, and all that, was a real attainable goal, and aircraft manufacturers, tv series, movies, airshows, and more, really made it feel as if there was something wonderful up there they realistically could be a part of. I've seen the old magazine ads in family publications showing mom, dad, Junior and Suzie all walking from their family Cessna as casually as from their Ford station wagon. where are those ads now? They sold more than Cessnas. They sold a dream, an attainable goal.

We could sell that concept today- it's still true. Yes, we have more complex airspace, but I can still hop in my Mooney tomorrow morning on the east coast, and be more than halfway to the Pacific Ocean before dark, without saying a word to anybody. On the other hand, I have complete coverage, coast to coast, of competent people on the ground whose job it is to look out for me. Even in my 31-year old airplane, my weather information and navigational devices are unimaginably far ahead of what we had in the 60s. My shoes stay on my feet unless I'd rather fly barefoot, my bags arrive when I do, with whatever size shampoo I want to bring, I can stop just about anywhere I like, or take an extra turn around a famous landmark for a closer look, I can jump in my bird and go see my grandkids tomorrow morning, just because I want to. And I always have a window seat.
Why aren't we selling that?

It's great to introduce kids to airplanes- there's hardly anything more fun than seeing the look of wonder on a kid's face, her excited boast that SHE flew the airplane all by herself- except for her feet, but I'm not convinced that thrill brings many teenagers to a flight school.
We really need to do a better job of selling the dream, the practicality of flexible transportation, and the freedom offered by GA to adults, people who have the time, the money, and most of all, the motivation to make the time to get through the training in a practical and organized fashion. They're out there. We just need to reach them.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Several thoughts:
1. GA IS expensive, right out of the gate, and the training takes a big commitment of time AND money. Many people think they can't afford it, ignoring the fact that they can afford all sorts of things that are as expensive as flying lessons- cruises, vacation condos, nice new luxury car with all bells and whistles, golf, boat, club memberships, handsome clothes, the latest and greatest computer/phone/video gadgetry. Individually they may not cost as much, but they do add up to a lot of money over the course of a year. Life's all about choices, but people forget that they can choose to drive a clunker, have less fancy logos on their shirts, stop at one beer, eat out less often, make do with a smaller TV, less cable... (insert your favorite economy here.)

All of those things have value. The sum of their value is greater(for most people) than operating one beater airplane.
We are selling the wrong product with the wrong pitch. To say 'fly for fun and freedom' then go off about IFR blah blah blah is retarded. 'Fly for fun and freedom' should be followed with a powered parachute brochure, LSA on floats, or a weight shift ultralight. Planes full of dials go along with the travel spiel, which only works for some people in some places and comes at a much higher price. Reality it is a bit dishonest to sell travel by GA. I don't think robust GA involves spam cans, robust GA means more people flying powered parachutes and ultralights out of their backyards that is fun and freedom. Playing make believe jetset traveler in 40 year old spam cans is expensive(why doesn't matter) and boring.

 

[weilke]

I've seen the old magazine ads in family publications showing mom, dad, Junior and Suzie all walking from their family Cessna as casually as from their Ford station wagon. where are those ads now? They sold more than Cessnas. They sold a dream, an attainable goal.

Those ads still exist, in golf magazines and other places where people with excess income are likely to read them. They are from the aircraft company so many pilots love to hate, what they are selling is not 'freedom' but on-demand all weather transportation in your personal travel pod with parachute and 'easy' button.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Those ads still exist, in golf magazines and other places where people with excess income are likely to read them. They are from the aircraft company so many pilots love to hate, what they are selling is not 'freedom' but on-demand all weather transportation in your personal travel pod with parachute and 'easy' button.

Or fractional jet ownership, where professional pilots fly the scary airplane, and you sit in back and eat peanuts.

 

[p1l0t]

I dunno, have devoted the last six years of my life (I know not half as much as many on here) and it has just consumed me. In a good way. It seriously has made life worth living, science, fun, adventure.. how's the saying go? I feel like I stumbled on this dying breed of people, no offense but most of the pilots who pay my salary are twice my age, that just still live life the way it was supposed be lived. People who aren't pilots, and are not deathly afraid of heights, I don't understand how they can't be spending every waking trying to figure how to get their next flight hour. I have a part-time job as flight instructor on top of my full-time job as a machinist... and I STILL spend every last penny I have outside of the bills on flying small airplanes. Oh well I guess everyone has a hobby right?

<---<^>--->

 

[Anthony]

I feel like I stumbled on this dying breed of people

I think that summed up much more clearly, and concisely what I was trying to say previously, but my perspective different as I am much older than you. I feel like the world has passed GA by. Our culture has changed so much that it is one of those things that people aren't willing to do anymore.