So You Want to Be an Airline Pilot (NSFW)

mikea said:
Dunno. That's me figuring it. I think he says they get around $150-$200 a flight hour and he says it's $500-$700 a day.

It's easily in the low to mid $100,000s.
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Waaaayyyyyy down the line in your career.... you make make a combined $100,000k in your first 7 years, pre tax.
 
jesse said:
I've known instructors that get paid by their FBO anywhere from $10 to $25 or so. That is flying hours - not sitting at the airport hours.
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Yup, same here.

I'm trying to figure out how I want to go about things after I have my CFI - I'd like to use it, but I'm not gonna do it full time - The money's just not there - so I don't know if I'd get enough time in the club alone to make it worthwhile, or if there's enough people out there with their own planes that need a BFR/IPC, or... :dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Yup, same here.

I'm trying to figure out how I want to go about things after I have my CFI - I'd like to use it, but I'm not gonna do it full time - The money's just not there - so I don't know if I'd get enough time in the club alone to make it worthwhile, or if there's enough people out there with their own planes that need a BFR/IPC, or... :dunno:
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I'm wondering the same thing. We'll see I guess. This could very likely be the year.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I'm trying to figure out how I want to go about things after I have my CFI - I'd like to use it, but I'm not gonna do it full time - The money's just not there - so I don't know if I'd get enough time in the club alone to make it worthwhile, or if there's enough people out there with their own planes that need a BFR/IPC, or... :dunno:
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I don't know what you would consider enough time to make it worthwhile. I think a lot depends on how much free time you have or want to devote to it, and your location.
 
You gents pondering the CFI might do well to talk to Marty Bevill, or Marty B on the Red board. He's one of their moderators. He recently got his CFI and runs a small flight school at a little town called Wapakoneta.
 
It also depends on whether you are affiliated with a place which can rent airplanes or if you are depending on people who own their own. I will say that I did free-lance instruction for a few years and I seemed to have as much business as I wanted without going out to recruit people. On the other hand, I didn't want more than about one student at a time unless it was to do a FR or IPC since my other job was full time.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Typically, yes, up to the contract maximum.



It is time with the company, not time in grade, so to say. So if you upgrade in your 5th year, you .would enter the table at year 5
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Thank you, Greg.

flyingcheesehead said:
Also, many other seniority-based benefits like vacation start over at the bottom.
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Your vacation example is the same as I've experienced working in industry as an engineer the past 35 years. Each move results in starting over on vacation time. And, yes, that can be a factor in deciding whether or not to move.
 
Ghery said:
Your vacation example is the same as I've experienced working in industry as an engineer the past 35 years. Each move results in starting over on vacation time. And, yes, that can be a factor in deciding whether or not to move.
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But taking an airline pilot example, if someone is a 12 year B747 or B777 Captain for United they are making $190/hour which I interpret as a minimum of $159,600/year because of the 70 hour guarantee. Say United goes away (sorry Greg) and they get a job with American (presuming they were hiring but it says they have 1,890 pilot on furlough), they would start at $35/hour with a 73 hour guarantee which comes up to minimum of $30,660/year. I'm not sure what the contract maximum is but I'm pretty sure the Part 121 yearly maximum is 1,000 hours so that would be a maximum of $35,000/year.

That's a whole lot different than losing a few weeks of vacation time.

All figures were from here.
 
Everskyward said:
It also depends on whether you are affiliated with a place which can rent airplanes or if you are depending on people who own their own. I will say that I did free-lance instruction for a few years and I seemed to have as much business as I wanted without going out to recruit people. On the other hand, I didn't want more than about one student at a time unless it was to do a FR or IPC since my other job was full time.
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That's kind of what I don't really know. I would like to probably have one "rating" student at a time, but I would also like to do lots of BFR/IPC/aircraft checkout type of stuff to get exposed to as many pilots as possible.

There are quite a few places where I might be able to freelance or do part-time "employee" instruction - Timmerman, Capitol, Sylvania, Waukesha, etc. I'm not sure if I want to be "tied" to one of those or not, but I'm guessing it's pretty much impossible to do primary instruction otherwise.

I also don't know if I can justify the cost of insurance to freelance - Without being full-time, it gets awfully expensive. :frown2: As it turns out, our club's insurance doesn't cover an instructor EVEN IF that instructor is a member of the club and covered to fly the plane!
 
This is why my solution will never fly (pun intended)...the "currents" will not give up for the "futures".

What needs to happen is an INDUSTRY-WIDE seniority list, not company. Than you would be transferable. The unions could force this (and I would actually support them on it even though I am not an airline pilot) but the current rank and file would FREAK.
 
Everskyward said:
But taking an airline pilot example, if someone is a 12 year B747 or B777 Captain for United they are making $190/hour which I interpret as a minimum of $159,600/year because of the 70 hour guarantee. Say United goes away (sorry Greg) and they get a job with American (presuming they were hiring but it says they have 1,890 pilot on furlough), they would start at $35/hour with a 73 hour guarantee which comes up to minimum of $30,660/year. I'm not sure what the contract maximum is but I'm pretty sure the Part 121 yearly maximum is 1,000 hours so that would be a maximum of $35,000/year.

That's a whole lot different than losing a few weeks of vacation time.

All figures were from here.
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No question about that at all. In my work I have never changed companies for lower pay. But in my work pay isn't based on seniority with the company (non-union), but is based on what the employer and I agree I'm worth. If they offer enough, I take it. If they don't, I stay where I am. I've done both. Vacation seems to be about the only point where changing employers has meant going back to square one. That's one thing I would support the airline pilots unions on getting changed - transporting seniority from one airline to another. I know, a can of worms, but it sounds like a major issue for them.
 
Everskyward said:
But taking an airline pilot example, if someone is a 12 year B747 or B777 Captain for United they are making $190/hour which I interpret as a minimum of $159,600/year because of the 70 hour guarantee. Say United goes away (sorry Greg) and they get a job with American (presuming they were hiring but it says they have 1,890 pilot on furlough), they would start at $35/hour with a 73 hour guarantee which comes up to minimum of $30,660/year. I'm not sure what the contract maximum is but I'm pretty sure the Part 121 yearly maximum is 1,000 hours so that would be a maximum of $35,000/year.

That's a whole lot different than losing a few weeks of vacation time.

All figures were from here.
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For clarification they have "trip and duty rigs" so the pay would not be limited by the Part 121 restriction of 1000 hours/year.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
For clarification they have "trip and duty rigs" so the pay would not be limited by the Part 121 restriction of 1000 hours/year.
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I'm guessing that means that if part of your minimum 70 (or whatever) hours is paid to you even though you did not fly that it wouldn't count against your 1,000 hours/year. Is that right?
 
Everskyward said:
That's why I never became an airline pilot. I would never be able to figure out what I should be getting paid. :idea:

Now what I understand is that you get paid for your flight hours plus the trip rig or duty rig, whichever is more?
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Throw in International overrides, night overrides, per diem (domestic and international) etc, etc and it can get fairly complex.
 
tdager said:
What needs to happen is an INDUSTRY-WIDE seniority list, not company. Than you would be transferable. The unions could force this (and I would actually support them on it even though I am not an airline pilot) but the current rank and file would FREAK.
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Problem is, that creates a whole different set of issues that are as bad or worse than the problems it supposedly solves. This is one rank and file union member that is opposed to the idea on philosophical grounds, if not practical ones.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Problem is, that creates a whole different set of issues that are as bad or worse than the problems it supposedly solves.
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I can see a whole bunch of logistical problems with trying to do a national seniority list. Does any industry have something similar? Besides, don't they have problems integrating two lists? How would that work with 20, or however many airlines there are?
 
Everskyward said:
Besides, don't they have problems integrating two lists?
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Well the problems would be greatly simplified in that regard if there WERE a national list because the "new" guys would fit in wherever their seniority number fit in. But then the REAL issues begin.

If I get furloughed from one company, would I be allowed to go right to work for another airline? Even if they are not hiring? Would I be able to bump someone off of that airline's seniority list? What about off of a piece of equipment?

What if I don't want to go to work for that particular airline? There are some with labor relations so bad that I wonder why anyone would want to apply to them.

These are just a few of the issues I can think of. A National List looks good at first glance, but when you dig into the details, it really is a solution fraught with landmines.
 
jesse said:
Actually, from the neck of the woods I grew up in, a truck driving job was a GOOD job. And from a financial perspective they're still doing better then most americans by far.
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I always wonder why we talk about salary without talking about spending... if your salary is $100K and you spend 95K a year and have another $35K in credit card debt on top of that, you're a lot worse off than the guy who makes $70K and spends $45K a year, and stashes the rest in his 401K, IRA, mattress...

Yes, there's a point where you're making $20K and can't even get by, I know.

But, within the salaries that most of the "middle class" make, there's a lot of ability to affect serious changes in Net Worth by making serious, calculated changes, in lifestyle.

When you stop chasing the Jones'... things can be really good. I'm always appalled at shopping malls. They just scream "debt" to me. Especially the parking lots full of new luxury cars.

To bring it back to this discussion -- I've met kids making that $20K/year, living in a crashpad, and *loving* it. And I've met more folks who were just completely annoyed, angry, or just "suffering through" it. Generally I don't think it's a fun lifestyle for the "average" person. But a few really don't mind it. They also tend to be the few that are happy in most any circumstance.

So... I'm not attempting to sway anyone either way on whether the pilot lifestyle is "good" or not. It's a very personal thing, how much you think you can live on "comfortably". Or maybe the better question is "Do you know how to live comfortably on very little?"

Expenses < Salary = Good.
Expenses = Salary = Gettin' scary.
Expenses > Salary = Not good.

The salary isn't the only variable in those equations. Or as my Great Depression era grandfather used to say: "Get out your calculator." He was a farmer, and a truck driver, and a restauranteur, and a civic worker, and a gas-station attendant, and a technical worker at a porcelain-firing plant.

Nothing fancy, but he never truly wanted for anything. He didn't need the newest or the best of anything.

I had a similar decision to make 2.5-3 years into an Aviation Degree many years ago...

I had three part-time jobs, grants, loans and all that to make ends meet. I had my PP-ASEL, and wasn't progressing very quickly working 3 jobs.

One of the jobs eventually morphed into a decent but not high-paying full-time job due to hard work and taking every opportunity given. That led to more focus on the job and less on school.

Then the opportunity bell rang again... a travel job that was a decent lower-middle-class salaried position as a "Field Engineer" in telecom. I bit. The school suffered, I dropped out and flew for fun, but not very often, until May of 1999.

Then my responsibilities and home life took priority -- and there's not a single hour in the logbook again until March of 2007. I started flying again and half-heartedly chasing an Instrument Rating, and really screwed up a bit there. I didn't want to sit in a simulator, and that's (of course) where we started spending our time, my CFI and I. At odd hours, because of my work schedule, too.

What I realized later was that what I really wanted was just to go flying.

Having messed with my own head, spending too much time in the sim and not enough re-capturing the flying bug, I didn't fly at all in 2008.

Then, what saved me... in 2009 the "deal you can't refuse" on 1/3 ownership in a 1975 C-182P fell into my lap through friends of my Dad. The things I hated, they didn't have... scheduling through a club with a big roster, not having any control or say in maintenance, etc etc... ownership was different. I liked what I saw.

They started "working on me" at a Christmas party in 2008, and by February of 2009, I was back at the club, putting on a few more hours to meet the "time in type" requirements of the insurance, and May of 2009... I went "all-in", hook, line, and sinker.

By December of 2010 I have not only gotten "all the way back" into Aviation, including various lifestyle changes and removing other commitments that were in the way of going to the airport every weekend, but had even started an Aviation-themed podcast with three virtually unknown-to-me people who were pilots from Twitter. (And that's been amazingly fun! And I have more than three new GREAT friends because of it.)

That led to a trip to Oshkosh last summer for my first time... and what a great way to start... Sloshkosh 2010! Awesome. (And there I met Kent, and gained another new friend.)

Now... at the beginning of 2011... it's rare that I don't fly at least once a week (only weather really stops me) and I'm seriously committed to the Instrument Rating again. Written test tomorrow... this'll be the third time I've taken it (and passed). This time, it's getting done.

Expenses vs. Salary for me... My budget as an official "old-fart" in telecom, since I started when I was not old enough to rent a car, but was in a travel job that required it every week (that was fun... "I'm tellin' you lady, the company carries my insurance... and this case here has tools and test gear in it that is worth more than the whole car, and they trust me with that! Here's my bosses phone number, give him a call. And here's the self-insurance papers from the company Legal department and a letter from your company..."), I eventually made it up to where the 182 is the "perfect" expense.

I see that now.

But a couple of years ago, I fretted and worried over that decision far more than my wife, trying to "protect" her.

After another worry/fretting session out-loud at my computer, looking at Quicken and things... my wife, the most wonderful person in the world said...

"Just go do it already. We can afford it. I have no idea what you're worried about."

01 Feb 2011 will be the 20th anniversary of my first flight lesson, in N75839, a Skyhawk.

I'm taking that darn Instrument written before the 20th Anniversary of that.

On May 19th, 1992 I became a Private Pilot.

And I intend to be Instrument rated before May 19th, 2011. We'll call it my not-quite 20th Anniversary rating.

So... I chose NOT to fly professionally, and for me... it has worked out great. I'm having more fun than a barrel of monkeys right now, and had plenty of fun in those years I didn't fly too. But way more now that I'm flying again!

Who knows... Commercial in 2012, CFI in 2013? Maybe a multi-engine rating? The sky's the limit, and that's no joke!
 
mikea said:
Wait,wait! Capt. Whiner OP says "duty time" is "unpaid hours!"
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Depends on how good the contract is. Those kinds of duty rigs are an attempt by the Union to get the company to schedule the pilots so they fly more and sit around less.

Problem is, Companies tend to look at productivity different than pilots. To the Company, productivity is having a pilot on duty as long as possible so in the event that they need to reassign pilots, they have the flexibility to do so.

To the pilot, they want to fly as many hours as legally possible in the shortest amount of duty time.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
To the pilot, they want to fly as many hours as legally possible in the shortest amount of duty time.
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Interesting how someone's pay scheme has a big influence over what they see as favorable. Pilots who get paid a salary would not see this as a desirable situation. How did the whole hourly scheme come about? It seems that in other parts of aviation pilots are not paid that way.
 
Everskyward said:
Interesting how someone's pay scheme has a big influence over what they see as favorable. Pilots who get paid a salary would not see this as a desirable situation. How did the whole hourly scheme come about? It seems that in other parts of aviation pilots are not paid that way.
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Well, if we were salaried, the company would schedule us 3 hours a day, 6 days a week. Not sure I like the idea of salary.

Even if we WERE salaried, we would still want to fly the most hours in the shortest duty time possible.
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
Well, if we were salaried, the company would schedule us 3 hours a day, 6 days a week. Not sure I like the idea of salary.

Even if we WERE salaried, we would still want to fly the most hours in the shortest duty time possible.
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Or the least amount of hours in the shortest duty time as possible.
 
jesse said:
Or the least amount of hours in the shortest duty time as possible.
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Well yeah, but Management would never let that happen. So it is best to get to the FAR maximum in the shortest amount of duty time.
 
jesse said:
Or the least amount of hours in the shortest duty time as possible.
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There you go. :thumbsup:

Just kidding, to a point. Even salaried pilots realize that they need to be flying enough to make it profitable for the company or else they will not be flying at all, or getting paid for that matter. That said I have never heard anyone say they want to fly the FAA maximum, unless perhaps they are still in the building as much time as possible, quickly, mode.

Suppose the salary was X amount for flying (or being available) X number of days per month? You still would not be able to fly more than the FAA maximum.

I read an article a little while back which was addressing some safety issues dealing with how pilots are paid. The point the author was making was that if you pay someone per hour it might color their decision-making and they may be more likely to take a questionable flight because their income depends on it. This may not apply to the airlines so much because it seems to me that they have some kind of trip guarantee if it cancels. Or maybe that's another thing which depends on the contract.
 
mikea said:
I dunno....Adam, Spike? It's supposed to be a top law school.
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Sorry, missed this.

I assume Michigan's a good law school. My nephew, who is about to graduate from NYU Law, has a job offer for a Very Large Sum - more than I am paying myself after 18 years in practice. Of course, that's for working in NYC (or LA, his choice).

Last time we went to hire new lawyer (last year), we had a helluva time getting decent applicants. Maybe business is a lot better here?
 
jesse said:
There are plenty of worse jobs out there. There are certainly better ones. I feel bad for those that get screwed, lose their seniority, and end up without a job with no skills...But you can't say that the possibility of that occurring hasn't been known since they started their career.
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Big rewards require high risk. There are "venturists" (those who accept higher degree of risk in hopes of achieving big) in every field and they are somewhat rare. Yet in commercial avaition, that high risk attitude has somehow permeated into the masses which then creates the condition that pushing for the big reward has almost become the status quo. Then those lesser persons who were dragged along into that attitude formerly reserved to the "venturists" cannot stand the pressures or see they won't make the top start crying and bitching and moaning. Woe to them.

To summit requires the juxtaposition of so many natural factors to act favorably in our behalf. Then there is simple dumb luck. Truly the journey, not the destination, is the reward. One's attitude either promotes or prohibits realizing that distinction.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I also don't know if I can justify the cost of insurance to freelance - Without being full-time, it gets awfully expensive. :frown2: As it turns out, our club's insurance doesn't cover an instructor EVEN IF that instructor is a member of the club and covered to fly the plane!
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Are there enough people in the club who'd like to have you as an instructor, who'd pay the difference to get better insurance that includes a no-subrogation clause for the CFI?

Our insurance on our 182 will fully cover anyone that's a named-insured on the policy, period... no subrogation. But we're not a flight club, and commercial activity in the aircraft, is forbidden.

One flight club here in the area has always had 10% higher rates than all the others on the field, but after you learn the fine-print, you find out that they carry a non-subrogation insurance policy for ALL members. It's worth it to spread that out over all the members, vs. having everyone who has half a brain cell, buying renter's coverage.

I assume your members are under a non-subrogation clause. Just not the CFIs? That's wonky. Gotta love insurance companies.

There's a lot of types of insurance out there, and perhaps you could make a serious business case for, "Hey, if our own CFIs in the club have to carry additional insurance, they get no benefit from doing the majority of their flying in the club, and will be out flying other aircraft just as often... if we want to give them an incentive to be club members, we should make sure they're well-covered as well, so we can use them for our pilots."

You might find with some insurance companies that they'd limit this non-subrogation clause to NON-primary students, which seriously seriously sucks, to get it at a low enough price to keep it affordable, though.

Just a thought or two... good luck with it. I bet you'd stay pretty busy teaching within your club (especially if the economy would slowly come back up, which is anyone's guess... we have a lot of debt to deal with as a nation, and inflation might whallop a good recovery over the top of the head...)... certainly enough to do it part-time, all the time, so to speak... but with you not covered, you'd have to pass along your insurance rates in your rates charged to customers. Spread that insurance rate out over the club as a whole so they have a continued "pool of CFIs in the club" and that makes your scenario more pleasing to all, I would hope.
 
denverpilot said:
Are there enough people in the club who'd like to have you as an instructor, who'd pay the difference to get better insurance that includes a no-subrogation clause for the CFI?
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The club might do that anyway, just to encourage CFI's to join. We have no CFI's in the club right now.

Our insurance on our 182 will fully cover anyone that's a named-insured on the policy, period... no subrogation. But we're not a flight club, and commercial activity in the aircraft, is forbidden.
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Commercial activity is forbidden for us, too, but the policy specifically allows for flight instruction to occur in the planes. It'd be kind of hard to get checked out in them otherwise. ;)

Also, for us it's not a matter of subrogation. Our policy covers all club members as named insured. Deductible's only $500 too.

I assume your members are under a non-subrogation clause. Just not the CFIs? That's wonky. Gotta love insurance companies.
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That's the funny part. Again, members are covered as NAMED INSURED! But if a member is a CFI, they are specifically excepted from coverage if giving dual in the airplane, even to another club member - So, both pilot and CFI being named insured, they still won't cover the CFI in a dual instruction scenario. :incazzato:

There's a lot of types of insurance out there, and perhaps you could make a serious business case for, "Hey, if our own CFIs in the club have to carry additional insurance, they get no benefit from doing the majority of their flying in the club, and will be out flying other aircraft just as often... if we want to give them an incentive to be club members, we should make sure they're well-covered as well, so we can use them for our pilots."
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Well, the case should actually be made to the insurance company that a member CFI is going to have a lot more time in the club planes and be able to give better instruction. There are no rental 182's in our area, and no other DA40's at all. So, the CFI's tend to not have as much time in type as a club member would. For example, I have over 400 hours in the 182. *OUR* 182, not any old 182. I also have 58 hours of DA40 time even though we just picked it up in October. I'm pretty sure that on both counts I have more time than any CFI at the FBO, at least the full-timers. So, who is going to give the rest of the members better quality instruction? Seems that the insurance company is kind of shooting themselves in the foot with this rule.

but with you not covered, you'd have to pass along your insurance rates in your rates charged to customers.
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Yup. To get a CFI policy that covers me roughly the same way the club policy does would cost $1865/year. I'm not going to be full time, and I don't expect to give more than maybe 100 hours of dual per year in the club. That means I would have to charge $19/hr just for the insurance. I need to charge at least $20/hr for myself just to cover expenses... And we pay $42/hr at the local FBO, so there goes any hope of giving a good deal to club members. :frown2:
 
It's a hard call... back when I was on the Board of a non-profit flight club, they had bit the bullet and figured out some way to have CFIs covered before I got there.

It was a draw for CFIs beyond just checking people out in the aircraft. The trade off for the CFI was their dues weren't free... they paid dues into the club just like everyone else. The Board had a discussion about that, and decided it weeded out those who weren't "serious" about the club. Made sense, but lots of things about that club didn't...

They had over 100 dues-paying members, and getting to see the real numbers was shocking -- easily 70 of those never flew and weren't current. It was so odd that people would send money for something they weren't using, year after year. Whether it was to keep a "dream alive" or what, I never figured it out. Only about 25 people used the three aircraft on any regular basis, and I found that just odd. (The club had a C-172, C-172RG, and a Mooney M20C. No one really flew the Mooney either, but I did, and the Doc who owned it and put it in on a leaseback was a really nice guy.)

One other difference in that club... everything was "high time" pilots (high, being a relative term). There was no primary instruction going on, ever... and the insurance required 100 hours minimum total time to fly the RG and the Mooney, plus 5 hours in type, and the Skyhawk was 10 hours in type. Do you guys do primary instruction in any of your birds? Just curious.

Some CFIs will fly anything, anytime, anywhere, and to heck with the insurance... and the maintenance... but they're usually not the conscientious CFIs you really want doing checkouts. :(

Your last sentence there intrigues me, are you guys really paying $42/hr for the FBOs CFIs? That's way lower than around here. I wonder if they're working for peanuts on that price, just like you would -- or just not carrying insurance for themselves. Scary. :(

Typical CFI rates are about $15-$20 more per hour around here, depending on who you want (experience)/and where you find them (club, or freelance), and the rates go up for "advanced" training. (read: everything above PP-ASEL.)

Sure there are some instructors working freelance for way less who want hours, just like anywhere... but $42/hr seems low. Just a sign of the economy? I don't know any CFIs that are really making it well right now, and the few I know who are full-time "not going to the airlines, I like to teach" folks are always hunting for advanced students, and filling in with a primary student or two.

Some places around here have toyed with a "split" hourly rate... higher in the aircraft, lower on the ground, but it's never really taken off. (No pun intended.)
 
denverpilot said:
Sure there are some instructors working freelance for way less who want hours, just like anywhere... but $42/hr seems low. Just a sign of the economy? I don't know any CFIs that are really making it well right now, and the few I know who are full-time "not going to the airlines, I like to teach" folks are always hunting for advanced students, and filling in with a primary student or two.

Some places around here have toyed with a "split" hourly rate... higher in the aircraft, lower on the ground, but it's never really taken off. (No pun intended.)
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The club I fly at has $44/hr for primary, going up to $51/hr for helicopter, ATP, multi and the like. It's gone up about $5/hr, IIRC, during the 8 years I've been flying with them.
 
denverpilot said:
They had over 100 dues-paying members, and getting to see the real numbers was shocking -- easily 70 of those never flew and weren't current. It was so odd that people would send money for something they weren't using, year after year. Whether it was to keep a "dream alive" or what, I never figured it out. Only about 25 people used the three aircraft on any regular basis, and I found that just odd.
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That's fairly common, actually. Odder still is the people who own their own airplane and fly less than 10 hours a year. :(

Do you guys do primary instruction in any of your birds? Just curious.
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Kind of, in theory, but not really. To fly the club planes at all you must have at least soloed and have 25 hours. At that point, you can fly the Archer - The 182 and DA40 both require 10 hours of dual, or 5 hours of dual and 100 TT.

We only started the student-pilots-with-25-hours thing a few years ago, and only one person has ever taken advantage of it.

Your last sentence there intrigues me, are you guys really paying $42/hr for the FBOs CFIs? That's way lower than around here. I wonder if they're working for peanuts on that price, just like you would -- or just not carrying insurance for themselves. Scary. :(
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They're insured through the FBO. And yeah, they're not getting great money hourly, but they do get a few peanuts for a base salary if they're full-time, which helps even things out. They do keep fairly busy, too.

The regular rates are $39/hr for Primary, $45/hr for Advanced, and $49/hr for Professional (And anything multi, glass-panel, etc. is automatically considered "professional"). The $42/hr (or was it $46? Hmmm...) is a special discounted rate that the club negotiated for getting our DA40 checkouts and G1000 ground school done there - Though I think it only applies to the checkouts themselves. I don't know, I didn't have to get checked out. :D
 
Henning said:
Waaaayyyyyy down the line in your career.... you make make a combined $100,000k in your first 7 years, pre tax.
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I've been flying for the "regionals" for 5 years. In those 5 years I averaged just over 30,000 a year. Pretty pathetic. I did change airlines so I had two years or 40% of those 5 years on first year FO pay. I just upgraded and my salary (if you call it that) based on minimum guarantee every year is just over $60,000. I will more than likely fly about 10 hours per month over guarantee making my projected earnings in 2011 to be a little over $70,000. I could fly even more but it's based on many things that I can't always control.

So your numbers weren't exactly right but could be close depending on where you worked. No single number covers every airline because pay rates and work rules differ with each carrier.
 
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