So you got busted by the five-oh.... how do you tell the FAA?

Art VanDelay said:
I've always found the "Good Moral Character" clause a bit humorous. With just over twenty years of airline experience I can honestly say if the feds ever REALLY pushed this we would find that part 121 air travel would effectively ground to a halt !
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It's a tool in the toolbox if they want to get you.
 
Ron Levy said:
Some arrests are reportable even if they do not result in convictions. See my post above and block 18v on the medical application.
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I'm quite familiaer with 18V and your post and if you read mine, you would see that I am still right. An ARREST is ****NOT**** required to be reportable. A subsequent ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION (and I enumerated things that fall into this category) is but the arrest itself is NOT an ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION.

An administrative action would be things like the DMV suspending your license even for a challengeable (successful or not) prima facie test violation, a reduction of charge to a non-DUI charge or dismissal in exchange for driving school or other programs, etc..

It is the conviction or administrative action that is reportable not the arrest.

However if you appear intoxicated to a cop, they throw you in the back of the police car, haul you down to the police station, perhaps even administer the breath test, provided that doesn't either lead to charges or administrative actions, *IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED*.

Your statement that the ARREST itself is not reportable either on 18v, 18w, or under 61.15 is WRONG. You can keep shouting over people, but that doesn't make your exaggerated statements correct.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
Must be another one of those "secret memos" that only Ron has access to.......:rolleyes:

:rofl:
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Well, true or not, the thought of US Marshals being dispatched to repossess someone's medical certificate is pretty funny. I'd think that one would need to p!ss-off their superiors really badly to be assigned that sort of "errand boy" duty.
 
timwinters said:
Well, true or not, the thought of US Marshals being dispatched to repossess someone's medical certificate is pretty funny. I'd think that one would need to p!ss-off their superiors really badly to be assigned that sort of "errand boy" duty.
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I've never heard of it happening. I personally know of one pilot (ATP) that had his certificate revoked and he never turned it in, and the FAA didn't ask the federal marshals to retrieve it.

But the US Marshal bit does add "flair" to the tale. :rolleyes:
 
bullwinkle said:
For those of us without medicals, are we not required to report any of this? I thought we had to report arrests, DUI, etc.
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This is what I thought. Medical has nothing to do with it.

Just maybe if John would have had someone with him, they could have switched the fuel tank for him and not him trying to reach something that had been moved. He was told do not try and reach that fuel lever for you will flip the airplane over from pushing on the rudder pedal. Both pilots who flew that airplane told him this.
I know a couple people who saw this. They said it happened really fast.

Back to regular programming.

Tony
 
flyingron said:
I'm quite familiaer with 18V and your post and if you read mine, you would see that I am still right. An ARREST is ****NOT**** required to be reportable. A subsequent ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION (and I enumerated things that fall into this category) is but the arrest itself is NOT an ADMINISTRATIVE ACTION.
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You said an arrest is not reportable, period. That's not true. Some arrests are reportable even if they do not result in an administrative action. I suggest reading again the actual language for block 18v.

It is the conviction or administrative action that is reportable not the arrest.
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One more time, read 18v again, especially item 1. The arrest itself requires reporting on your next medical application if it "involves driving while intoxicated by, driving while impaired by, or under the influence of alcohol or a drug" regardless of whatever else happens or doesn't happen. Note that the drug doesn't have to be illegal, either -- an arrest involving driving while zonked on a legally prescribed drug also must be reported. It is item 2 under that question which covers administrative actions. However, either one requires a report, not just an administrative action.

However if you appear intoxicated to a cop, they throw you in the back of the police car, haul you down to the police station, perhaps even administer the breath test, provided that doesn't either lead to charges or administrative actions, *IT IS NOT REQUIRED TO BE REPORTED*.
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Wrong. If the arrest was for DWI/DUI, it most be reported even if there is no further action. Read the question completely, please.

Your statement that the ARREST itself is not reportable either on 18v, 18w, or under 61.15 is WRONG.
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I'm not the one who said it is not reportable -- you are. I said it is, because the language of 18v was changed in 2009 includes a mere arrest involving any of those offenses. The FAA made that change because people were getting deals to turn it into reckless driving or some such without mention of the alcohol involvement in order to avoid the results of an alcohol-related driving offense. They decided to require reporting even an arrest so people couldn't sneak one past them. Bruce Chien has more details on how that came to pass.
 
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RotorAndWing said:
I've read the full report and I don't see what you are referring to either. :dunno:
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Then maybe I was told that by someone inside 800 Independence Ave. In any event, as you should know, FAA Order 8900.1 contains the provisions for Inspectors to involve Federal law enforcement on such missions.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
61.15 - offenses involving alcohol or drugs applies to all.
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61.15 says nothing about arrests, only convictions and motor vehicle actions which are defined as cancellations, suspensions, or revocations of licenses for cause of operating under the influence. If they take your license when you're arrested THAT is the thing that needs to be reported, but arrests in general are not.
 
Ron Levy said:
Then maybe I was told that by someone inside 800 Independence Ave.
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During AAI (aircraft accident investigation) at the TSI (transportation safety institute) at the MMAC (mike monroney aeronautical center) this case gets discussed along with all of the pertinent details. There was never any mention of what you are alluding to.


Ron Levy said:
In any event, as you should know, FAA Order 8900.1 contains the provisions for Inspectors to involve Federal law enforcement on such missions.
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Yes I do, which further indicates you are, once again, blowing smoke. The FAA does not dispatch the USMS to "pick up certificates".

Give it up Ron. :rolleyes2:
 
Ron Levy said:
You said an arrest is not reportable, period. That's not true. Some arrests are reportable even if they do not result in an administrative action. I suggest reading again the actual language for block 18v.
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But 18v was just written by "god knows who" at the FAA. Isn't it true that we can safely ignore it because it's not supported by clear language in the regulations and, of course, only if those regulations have been formally interpreted by the FAA's chief counsel?:wink2:
 
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register@teamandras.com said:
But 18v was just written by "god knows who" at the FAA. Isn't it true that we can safely ignore it because it's not supported by clear language in the regulations and, of course, only if those regulations have been formally interpreted by the FAA's chief counsel?:wink2:
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Nice thought. However, the Chief Counsel is permitted to advance an interpretation for the first time as part of an enforcement action. Note that this is not considered a violation of the Constitutional prohibition against Congress passing an ex post facto law since the empowering legislation is already on the books. Note also that Bruce Chien has several times written about people reporting things that need not have been reported, and the result was always that nothing happens. OTOH, when the FAA catches you failing to report something they say must be reported, it's invariably the FAA equivalent of the death penalty. So, if you choose not to report a citation for possession of marijuana and the FAA finds out about it, it's possible the Chief Counsel would come down the way FRon says, but I wouldn't bet my ticket on that; I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 
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So I date some chick for a few months and the breakup goes badly. Her brother the cop thinks I'm the bad guy in the deal, and decided to jerk me around for payback and happens to pull me over every Friday night after I'm done playing golf, and determines that I'm driving under the influence, even though I've had no narcotics, alcohol, or anything in my system all week, and arrests me every Friday evening.

Because he's also in real good with his boss and is poker buddies with a few people in the court system, me getting this to stop is never going to happen. I have to report the next 17 arrests even though they get dismissed with no administrative action, no record on my license, no court costs, no nothing? Somehow I think that can't be the case.
 
EdFred said:
So I date some chick for a few months and the breakup goes badly. Her brother the cop thinks I'm the bad guy in the deal, and decided to jerk me around for payback and happens to pull me over every Friday night after I'm done playing golf, and determines that I'm driving under the influence, even though I've had no narcotics, alcohol, or anything in my system all week, and arrests me every Friday evening.

Because he's also in real good with his boss and is poker buddies with a few people in the court system, me getting this to stop is never going to happen. I have to report the next 17 arrests even though they get dismissed with no administrative action, no record on my license, no court costs, no nothing? Somehow I think that can't be the case.
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Oh but it is! The best thing is for all of us is to turn in our tickets today before a SWAT team, USMS, or even SEAL Team 6 kicks in our door one night and takes it by force. 1000's of pilots that forgot to list medications, committed misdemeanors, or had a beer are now doing a dime in GITMO locked up with the remaining few Al Qaeda. The "administrator" makes Stalin look like a Girl Scout. :yes::lol:
 
EdFred said:
So I date some chick for a few months and the breakup goes badly. Her brother the cop thinks I'm the bad guy in the deal, and decided to jerk me around for payback and happens to pull me over every Friday night after I'm done playing golf, and determines that I'm driving under the influence, even though I've had no narcotics, alcohol, or anything in my system all week, and arrests me every Friday evening.

Because he's also in real good with his boss and is poker buddies with a few people in the court system, me getting this to stop is never going to happen. I have to report the next 17 arrests even though they get dismissed with no administrative action, no record on my license, no court costs, no nothing? Somehow I think that can't be the case.
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Possible FAA reporting requirements notwithstanding, you might want to consider moving for other reasons....
 
Sac Arrow said:
Possible FAA reporting requirements notwithstanding, you might want to consider moving for other reasons....
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Actually, the problem with never arise with me, because I'm not the type of guy any female would want to be seen in public with. And I'm not the kind of guy that checks out other dudes in the steam room at the gym.
 
EdFred said:
Actually, the problem with never arise with me, because I'm not the type of guy any female would want to be seen in public with. And I'm not the kind of guy that checks out other dudes in the steam room at the gym.
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How is it that you're ALWAYS right?
 
bullwinkle said:
That's what I thought...what about general arrests not involving substances?
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Near as I can figger out, no medical = no reporting arrests on a medical form.

It appears that the FAA is OK with you working for a drug cartel as long as you restrict your activities to murdering judges and police - it's only when you are a mule that it becomes an issue.
 
EdFred said:
So I date some chick for a few months and the breakup goes badly. Her brother the cop thinks I'm the bad guy in the deal, and decided to jerk me around for payback and happens to pull me over every Friday night after I'm done playing golf, and determines that I'm driving under the influence, even though I've had no narcotics, alcohol, or anything in my system all week, and arrests me every Friday evening.

Because he's also in real good with his boss and is poker buddies with a few people in the court system, me getting this to stop is never going to happen. I have to report the next 17 arrests even though they get dismissed with no administrative action, no record on my license, no court costs, no nothing? Somehow I think that can't be the case.
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I would start driving home with my attorney in the right seat.
 
EdFred said:
So I date some chick for a few months and the breakup goes badly. Her brother the cop thinks I'm the bad guy in the deal, and decided to jerk me around for payback and happens to pull me over every Friday night after I'm done playing golf, and determines that I'm driving under the influence, even though I've had no narcotics, alcohol, or anything in my system all week, and arrests me every Friday evening.

Because he's also in real good with his boss and is poker buddies with a few people in the court system, me getting this to stop is never going to happen. I have to report the next 17 arrests even though they get dismissed with no administrative action, no record on my license, no court costs, no nothing? Somehow I think that can't be the case.
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You can come back from Fantasyland now, Ed.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Near as I can figger out, no medical = no reporting arrests on a medical form.
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Correct.

It appears that the FAA is OK with you working for a drug cartel as long as you restrict your activities to murdering judges and police - it's only when you are a mule that it becomes an issue.
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I'm not sure I would necessarily draw the same conclusion, but it appears that by the FAA's rules, you would not have to report those things to the FAA if you didn't apply for a medical.
 
Ron Levy said:
You can come back from Fantasyland now, Ed.
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Which part is fantasyland, the me dating someone or the getting arrested for DUI with no alcohol or any other drugs in my system? Because the latter happened to the nephew of a friend. Got really nervous around the cop, threw up, was jittery, the cop arrested him for DUI, without the breathalyzer. Just based on the eye test. So it happens - except in your world where every authority figure is a perfect deity that's to be sucked up to.
 
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