So, student pilots.. Who are we and where do we stand?

@onezuludelta I know how you feel. I was right where you were 12 years ago (sorry if this depresses you more) when a few deaths in the family, a bankrupt FBO/flight school, CPA exams and other things just completely blew up my training. I had to put my dream on hold a long time. Now I'm back in the air and just hours away from the checkride. Keep the faith. We're pulling for you. It won't be a 12 year drought for you I'm sure.
 
As of today, at around 12:30 PM local time (right after the blue angels TFR listed so we could come back to our airport), the DPE jumped out of the plane and said "let's go print your temporary certificate"!

I said "no way", cracked a big grin, and tapped him on the shoulder. I wasn't really sure I'd passed and we'd agreed before the start of the flight that he wouldn't tell me if I failed until the end so that I could get as far through it as possible.

83 hours, training out of a busy class D for 11 months, with four instructors. Afraid to total the actual costs, as we fly G1000 172.

After the exam was complete, DPE gave me some helpful tips on things to do going forward. Said I had a very strong oral, good flying skills, but had a few things I could do better WRT my flows and procedures (things like getting the G1000 to automatically put in the freq's instead hand dialing them in.

Now off to continue learning, especially at uncontrolled fields. Also want to plan a couple of quick weekend trips to exercise this new piece of paper sitting on my desk.
 
MIFlyer said:
<snip>
Now off to continue learning, especially at uncontrolled fields. Also want to plan a couple of quick weekend trips to exercise this new piece of paper sitting on my desk.
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That is so funny. I should do my checkride by the end of the month, and I am excited to do a lot more work at towered fields. All the freq changes, repeats, and other traffic is a pain, but uncontrolled are second nature. Get the weather, pick a runway, and keep everyone informed while watching for traffic that might not have a radio. Nothing to it.

In six months we will both think there is nothing to either one of them would be my best guess.
 
onezuludelta said:
And, I know the longer it takes me to get back in the plane, the longer it will take me to get to the checkride-ready point again, and the more it will cost.

I miss flying, so I read and watch everything I can about it, which only makes me miss it more. .
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I was stationed in Korea and had about 35 hours but didn't finish over there unfortunately as I moved back to the states. After I returned to the states, we had a kid (well wife did, I watched) and money was very tight. We couldn't even go to McDonalds broke. After about a year or so we got in better financial shape and I was able to start flying again. This time I got 'er done but as you suspect, I basically started almost from scratch again as a year + layoff will affect everything you learned before, and in my case I almost started from the beginning. Keep the faith, get your finances under control, take care of your new bride, and then get back to it. You're not the only one who has been thru similar deals. You'll get there.
 
So I found out how to check the pucker factor on my CFI today. First time up together in about a month, and she decides we should do a soft field takeoff. I set the plane up and we started down the runway. As the speed was coming up I felt the front wheel start to get lite, and just then realized I was not putting quite enough muscle into pulling back.

Give the yoke a good pull, and suddenly it jumps back another inch and a half. The plane jumps off the runway with the stall horn screaming and she about comes out of the seat to help make sure I have control over everything, I am pretty impressed that the lesson continued from that point, but she is a real trooper that has seen it all at this point in her career.

One more lesson with her to work on short and soft takeoffs and landings and I the next time I see her it will be for the checkride.
 
Today was basically a lesson my instructor said I could do anything I wanted but he suggested going through the pre-solo check stuff. Again, it's a Part 61 outfit that works like a 141 so they follow a syllabus with stage checks.

Started with some IR maneuvers on our way out to the practice area, did recovery from unusual attitudes while under the hood, steep turns, then into power on/off stalls, did a simulated engine out, turns around a point, s turns, slow flight, etc. Basically all the maneuvers.

Then we went back to airport and did a regular pattern and landing and greased it on beautifully. Next landing was simulated engine out with a spot landing and again, NAILED IT. My instructor thought I was going to be way long but I hit my spot perfectly and greased it on. Only problem on either landing was I didn't get enough right rudder in as I added power for the go part of the touch-n-go. Did a go around as well and then a final full stop landing. The full stop was the worst of the day, I dropped it from about 6 inches, perfectly safe just not as good as the first two.

1.1 hours for a total of 12.2

Next lesson is a ride with another instructor for my official solo check. My current instructor said I was ready after last lesson but he has to follow the syllabus. No worries, having a blast and enjoying every minute. Today was really nice because I really felt like I was starting to master parts of the plane and didn't have to think about things, just did them.
 
Blindrage said:
Give the yoke a good pull, and suddenly it jumps back another inch and a half. The plane jumps off the runway with the stall horn screaming and she about comes out of the seat to help make sure I have control over everything, I am pretty impressed that the lesson continued from that point, but she is a real trooper that has seen it all at this point in her career.
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Stop waking up the instructor. She's tired and had a night cross country student last night.

Hahahaha.

Why would you be surprised the lesson continued? It'll definitely continue the day you do it without her and scare yourself on a gusty day someday in the future... And she's not there to help. ;)

She has to sit there and let you fix it... So you learn...

T-tails are notorious for doing what you just described. Less air moving over them from the prop so they have to reach flying speed to be effective and all of a sudden the nose pops off the ground.

Kinda annoying if you're used to something with some air moving over the tail as soon as the engine power is in, and you use the propwash to get the nose light for a short field... Doesn't work on the t-tail and instead you'll hold it back and it'll rotate real quick as soon as you're moving fast enough to create airflow.

Anyway... You owe the instructor a nap. Hahaha.
 
Today was (is) a beautiful day in the Midwest to solo an airplane. I soloed 13 years ago so it's my second first. :) So now I can go putter around the local area whenever I want (staying within solo minimums of course). Got about 6 hours of solo time left (including long xc), an hour of instrument and then checkride.

Also, coming back to my Class C airport I was #3 behind Fifi. Wasn't expecting to ever be so close to a B-29. Wish I got pics. Poor Cirrus behind her had to go around because they landed long. Pilot seemed a little annoyed on the radio.
 
Yesterday I took my plane out and flew around. It was weird. Now that I'm signed off to solo, I actually have to pick what I want to do. What a novel idea! I decided to fly around the area and look around. The past few months it's always the practice area or the pattern. I had never been on the other side of the river! So I went and flew around, over the foundry I used to work at, over a few towns on the "other" side of the river and then over my current place of work. Fun times. Then had a long straight in to the runway (gotta get used to this Class C now instead of the uncontrolled) and put her down nice. Felt like a real pilot. I made all the decisions and didn't have to ask permission from anyone. When my instructor is back from vacation it will be long XC prep, do it and then checkride. So close.
 
I finally got my medical - started this process last summer with Dr. Bruce (info gathering, records) - had all the required evaluations in November, and actually saw Dr. B in March. FAA had the completed file since the start of April. So - 5 months for a complex case. But, I'm 100% legit, legal, and no restrictions (other than I wear glasses) or SI. I have to add up the last page in my logbook, but I bet I have 30+ hours now. Time to go solo as soon as we get good weather!
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Yesterday I took my plane out and flew around. It was weird. Now that I'm signed off to solo, I actually have to pick what I want to do. What a novel idea! I decided to fly around the area and look around. The past few months it's always the practice area or the pattern. I had never been on the other side of the river! So I went and flew around, over the foundry I used to work at, over a few towns on the "other" side of the river and then over my current place of work. Fun times. Then had a long straight in to the runway (gotta get used to this Class C now instead of the uncontrolled) and put her down nice. Felt like a real pilot. I made all the decisions and didn't have to ask permission from anyone. When my instructor is back from vacation it will be long XC prep, do it and then checkride. So close.
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That must've felt great! It IS so weird at first to not have someone giving you a set of tasks from the right seat. Congrats and good luck on the rest of your training!
 
Checked off another requirement today. Got my third solo towered landing in. Also hopped over to a new (to me) field and did some landings. That airport has some cool planes at it. And the cheapest 100LL. Counting down the days until my instructor gets back from vacation so I can do my long solo XC.
 
Got back in the air today after a month off. Didn't feel rusty, I thought I might. Last flight before today was long XC. Today did some dual for check ride prep, worked on short/soft takeoffs/landings. Accelerated stalls(those were interesting), turning approach to landing(power off) stalls, emergency landing. Felt pretty good, CFI said I did well.
 
So at the end of my last post I mentioned I'd be doing a pre solo check. Well weather cancelled that lesson so my Instructor and I started on short and soft field takeoffs and landings.

And I sucked at both landing techniques. Mainly just kept struggling with the flare and on soft field I struggled keeping the nose off. I'm sure it's common with new landing techniques so I'll work on them when I can.

I did pretty good with the takeoffs, the soft field is interesting.

1.2 hours for a total of 13.4

Now to try and reschedule the solo pre check
 
Took my PPSEL checkride today. The first our school has had under the new ACS.

My DPE is well known in the community and been around for AGES. I think it was evident to him in the first hour that I knew my stuff, came super prepared, and had studied hard from the beginning. The upside of the ACS structure is that it was a bit more conversational and allowed him to understand my though process and decision making while also testing my knowledge.

The downside is that the oral portion took 7 HOURS to complete. This was with me nailing every section and not having to take too much time to look stuff up at all. I only missed 4 questions total on the knowledge test so its not like we had to cover a lot of that remedial stuff either.

There are just so many sections and subsections to cover that it is like a marathon. It took so long that we did not even have time to get in the plane and had to discontinue and do the flight portion another day. Super disappointing and disheartening for a student that is dying to finally get his ticket. It was bittersweet to hear the DPE say that I did extremely well but that we would have to discontinue for another day.

My DPE is definitely a stickler for the rules. To his great credit he was super prepared as well, and had everything well organized and laid out. He was not going to cut any corners however, so we went through every section and subsection in the ACS. I can't see how it could be done much faster really, and I'm concerned for some of the other students who are coming up not quite as prepared as I am.

This is really an impediment to new students and GA in general. To those people who say the ACS will not take any longer, they are simply wrong in practice. If you have an ACS checkride coming up be prepared for an all day event or to discontinue at some point and pick up another day. I can only imagine that DPE fees are goingup as a result of the much greater time commitment as well.

Anyone else taken a ride in the last few weeks? What was your experience?
 
El Reverendo said:
Took my PPSEL checkride today. The first our school has had under the new ACS.

My DPE is well known in the community and been around for AGES. I think it was evident to him in the first hour that I knew my stuff, came super prepared, and had studied hard from the beginning. The upside of the ACS structure is that it was a bit more conversational and allowed him to understand my though process and decision making while also testing my knowledge.

The downside is that the oral portion took 7 HOURS to complete. This was with me nailing every section and not having to take too much time to look stuff up at all. I only missed 4 questions total on the knowledge test so its not like we had to cover a lot of that remedial stuff either.

There are just so many sections and subsections to cover that it is like a marathon. It took so long that we did not even have time to get in the plane and had to discontinue and do the flight portion another day. Super disappointing and disheartening for a student that is dying to finally get his ticket. It was bittersweet to hear the DPE say that I did extremely well but that we would have to discontinue for another day.

My DPE is definitely a stickler for the rules. To his great credit he was super prepared as well, and had everything well organized and laid out. He was not going to cut any corners however, so we went through every section and subsection in the ACS. I can't see how it could be done much faster really, and I'm concerned for some of the other students who are coming up not quite as prepared as I am.

This is really an impediment to new students and GA in general. To those people who say the ACS will not take any longer, they are simply wrong in practice. If you have an ACS checkride coming up be prepared for an all day event or to discontinue at some point and pick up another day. I can only imagine that DPE fees are goingup as a result of the much greater time commitment as well.

Anyone else taken a ride in the last few weeks? What was your experience?
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You should chat with the DPE to attend the recent FAA online seminars being done out of OKC on the ACS. He was NOT required to cover "every section and subsection" if you're saying he went over every item in each. That is flat WRONG per FAA OKC.

He's required to cover two questions from each, essentially, and they're supposed to be integrated into scenarios which can cover more than one question at a time. There's also requirements to cover any written test items you missed, as you pointed out.

Here's my summary of the ACS webinar that the OKC folks are giving via FAASTeam to anyone who signs up.

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/pts-vs-acs.96352/#post-2099031

They appear (judging by my email alerts on safety seminars I might be interested INF) to be doing at least one per week, and the webinar format can handle a boatload of people per each one.

Here's screenshots of the email announcement I received literally an hour ago, which says they can handle up to 1000 people.

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5da3efb5c4c16c2301dd928c179a0ace.jpg


20acb363ebb8e1b6391e41406e23e54f.jpg


If anyone can't find these seminars on the FAASTeam website and would like me to forward you a copy of the email announcement so you can click on the links, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it.

If he hasn't attended one, it may help him figure out the intent, which was not to make the checkride longer, but was intended to cover a wider array of items via scenarios. The OKC based FAA presenter in my class was adamant that the list of tasks is NOT intended to be gone through like a Q&A or quiz of each item. A scenario should cover it, like perhaps the old usual thing...

"Plan me a cross-country from here to X."

The act of doing that and reviewing it covers a BUNCH of item codes in the 55 or so sub-sections. The DPE just documents when they create their scenarios what item codes their methodology covers and those items are done.

Feel free to show him my summary, but better yet, just attending one of the seminars online directly will straighten out any misconceptions and he can also ask any questions that it brings up for him and they promise to respond quickly as well as provide contact info for after the presentation if needed. They had a list of questions asked during my seminar turned around and sent back out within a week. Many of those ended up in the FAQ document they provide a link to, also.

Well worth the price of admission.
 
Hey Nate! Thanks so much for the reply and for the info!
I will check out the seminar.

To clarify we did not cover every item in every section, but we did cover multiple items in the knowledge section and the risks section for each and every area. Also talked through expectations for some of the skills under each subject area. Much was presented as scenarios and took time to discuss.

I did get credit for the items I knocked out on my XC plan and the related prep and briefing. Still took 7 hours though. I can see how it could be reduced to 5 but not really much less than that?

Really nice of you to forward that info and I intend to check it out ASAP.
 
El Reverendo said:
To clarify we did not cover every item in every section, but we did cover multiple items in the knowledge section and the risks section for each and every area. Also talked through expectations for some of the skills under each subject area. Much was presented as scenarios and took time to discuss.
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Yeah that's "optional" of course, the DPE can cover extra stuff if they like, but it's not required. One of each type in each of the 51 topics is all that's required and even that's a bit nuts. Seven hours on a Private ride is a bit ridiculous.

Or as one local CFI put it:

"I don't need [seven] hours with a pilot to tell if they know what they're doing. I seriously doubt any DPE would."

;)
 
This is the kind of stuff that freaks me out. 7 hours??? I hope the DPEs around here don't do that to me. Checkride in about a month for me...
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
This is the kind of stuff that freaks me out. 7 hours??? I hope the DPEs around here don't do that to me. Checkride in about a month for me...
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Me too, anyone with a less lengthy ACS private pilot checkride to report? 7 hours and not getting into the plane yet, yikes.
 
Good god... I thought the average checkride was about 4-5 hours total! I can't fathom an entire day... Is this what we are all looking at now? I'm hoping to get to checkride this fall...
 
I will let you know how long mine took in the next few weeks. Just got sign-off for the checkride this afternoon. Now for a little more brushing up and get this done.
 
Just finished my pre solo check and it went well.

Started with some preflight quizzing on airspace, solo regulations, emergency procedures, and weight and balance.

Then we went to fly. I made a minor mistake on the run-up in that I didn't quite get clear of the taxiway and someone doing taxi backs got stuck behind me so the instructor did a quick turn around to get out of the way. Run-up indicated dirty plugs so leaned it out and let it burn off, mag check went perfect after that.

And we were off. Flew out to the practice area where we did slow flight. This instructor wanted me to do it with the stall horn going, slower than my normal instructor so it took me a little bit to get it that slow. He did help and I think it was beneficial to do it at that speed. I definitely think it's a mistake the way the ACS has slow flight now.

Then we did a couple stalls and two engine outs. The first one, I did not make my field. I was right over a good one at about 2500 and should have circled down to it but I picked one off the nose and would have just come up short. So we did another and I did fine there.

Then we went back to the airport and did a couple landings. The instructor gave me some excellent advice in the pattern that I think will help my landings a lot. I had a tendency to raise the nose when slowing down on downwind and base which left me nose high on final. This lead to me landing a little firmly. He showed me how to keep the nose down and it gives a little more elevator authority or room for the flare to happen naturally and just settle down.

Overall it was a great experience. The instructor said I was doing very well for my hours and he said that with some good studying I could finish up right around 40 hours. My instructor and the lead instructor have all said the same as well but I'm in no rush.

1.1 for a total of 14.5

Talked to my normal instructor after the lesson and i should solo Wednesday provided I don't do something silly (like break a nose wheel) when we go up.
 
Today was my check ride; Discontinuance due to weather. Will fly tomorrow. Knocked out the whole IACRA, qualification check, and oral in 2:15 (I am not special, that's how long they're taking for others around here).

I started my first flight July 2015. In April 2016, I was a couple weeks away from being check-ride ready. I made a trip to Honduras for a week at that time and what I saw there had me recontemplating life...how much we (I) have and how spoiled we (I) can be. I lost interest in pursuing my cert until about a month ago. Interesting that 3 months off I was worried about forgetting a lot. Turns out, I was a little rusty, but still had it, which was surprising...like riding a bike...maybe a little. The part that really degraded was my book knowledge (airspace, inspections, memory items).
 
I said I would update on my checkride times for comparsion. Here is my Facebook (YUCK!!!) posting that I am forced to use because of my extended family:

About 1 year of my life, hundreds of hours studying, 50.7 hours behind the yoke of an airplane, and a 5 hour verbal and practical test finally resulted in a new pilot being introduced to the world.

Lo, the angels in the heavens wept as another mere human took to the skies with a pair of tin wings to invade what was rightfully their domain.

So unless someone else passed their checkride in the last 20 minutes... I am the newest certified pilot in the whole world!
 
Blindrage said:
I said I would update on my checkride times for comparsion. Here is my Facebook (YUCK!!!) posting that I am forced to use because of my extended family:

About 1 year of my life, hundreds of hours studying, 50.7 hours behind the yoke of an airplane, and a 5 hour verbal and practical test finally resulted in a new pilot being introduced to the world.

Lo, the angels in the heavens wept as another mere human took to the skies with a pair of tin wings to invade what was rightfully their domain.

So unless someone else passed their checkride in the last 20 minutes... I am the newest certified pilot in the whole world!
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The FB link didn't show up.
 
exncsurfer said:
The FB link didn't show up.
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Everything between the first line and last comment is what I posted on my FB account. I have more respect for most people on POA than to drag them into the morass that is FB for a simple comment. :D

The link is a non-factor.
 
Blindrage said:
Everything between the first line and last comment is what I posted on my FB account. I have more respect for most people on POA than to drag them into the morass that is FB for a simple comment. :D

The link is a non-factor.
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Ah, ok cool. So 5 hour total, not bad I suppose, that one 7 hour oral post had me worried, I'll hope for a DPE like yours.

Congrats!
 
The time breakdown was about 2.5 on the oral, and about 1.2 in the air. The other time was a short break between the two, and needing to grab some tools during the pre-flight since the plane had just had an oil change and the mechanic decided to ape the dip stick down.

I can not guarantee what your DPE might cover on the oral, but here were a few things that threw me a bit:

I was asked about the time between scuba diving and flying, and I would have had no idea except I got a heads up to know this. Seems a bit like trivia in most cases, but 12 hours after uncontrolled ascent; 24 after controlled ascent.

How does the airplane act if you are operating outside the CG envelope? I had just assumed the answer would be to never fly outside the envelope. Put some thought into how the airplane might react when nose or tail heavy, and how you might overcome these situations using unconventional control inputs.

Other big topics that you should already be prepared for:

Know the airspaces cold of course. Lots of questions for both your flight plan and in general on what kind of airspace you would be in when given an altitude while reviewing a sectional. What equipment is needed in different airspaces (including different altitudes like over 10k and over 18k), what permissions are needed for different airspaces, when and who is oxygen required for?

Required equipment for day/night, required documents for yourself and the plane, and what you do when equipment goes INOP. If required equipment does go inop what do you need to fly the plane, and who do you get that document from.

IMSAFE, PAVE, and the alcohol stuff of course. FAA has put special emphasis on ADM.

Lots more, but those were some of the major stuff I seemed to get hit on multiple times.
 
My lesson today was definitely unconventional:

My wife wanted to go up with my instructor and I to see what it was all about. She has been in small planes before but wanted to meet my instructor. So we went out to preflight and as we're walking up I see a puddle under the right wheel. I asked my instructor if it was brake fluid or water as I was walking over to the left door to open and drop the flaps for preflight. "Brake fluid!". DAMN.

Luckily it was a very slow day and the other C172 is sitting right next to us is available. So I walk over to start preflight while the instructor runs in to get the book and keys. The doors were locked so I started with the prop, cowl, and oil. Then climb the wing to visually check fuel and find that it's so full that it spills out from my weight on the strut lowering that wing. Check the right wing and find it's full too. Crap. Are we going to be over gross? We run inside to check W&B and find we're 10lbs under gross. WOOHOO! Let's go flying.

Everything else goes normally. I decide that I'm not going to do any maneuvers with my wife on-board. So we went to visit the 727 parked in the field, look in my post history for an image, and do a turn around a point to view it (good situational practice right?). Head back to the airport and do one touch and go and a full stop and taxi to the FBO. Go inside, instructor signs my logbook solo endorsement and into the plane I go.

The instructor grabs a golf cart, my wife, and one of the maintenance guys while I'm starting up and they ride over to the grass to take pics and video.

First takeoff: HOLY CLIMB RATE BATMAN! Pattern altitude reached during the upwind to base turn nearly.
First landing: Get a "NICE ONE!" from my instructor on the radio.
Second takeoff: Still surprised by the climb rate.
Second "landing": Have to dodge a bird on final, winds shifted to a stronger crosswind, and I ballooned from a gust. Go Around. "Good job" on the radio.
Second real landing: A little rough.
Third landing: Much better than second but not as good as the first.

Overall: 1.2 hours for a total of 15.7

Some other thoughts. Winds were a little stronger than I was hoping for: 11kts from 070 when we first went up. Runways 04-22 and 18-36 so 04 is the best choice but it was a decent crosswind. It changed to 11kts from 080 while in the pattern for my second landing. That change plus the bird plus the balloon lead to the go around. Fun!
 
Just got a new temporary that I'm rather proud of. ATP with E170/190 types.
 
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