So, I Guess It's OK for an Aiport NOT to be on a Sectional

LauraE51

LauraE51

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Laura
Driving three hours yesterday to have Thanksgiving with my family near Middletown, CA, i lamented that there wasn't an airport closer to them than Lampson field, <1o2>, which is too far away. However, taking a different route home, i noticed an airfield about two miles north of town, along the highway. The SF sectional doesn't list it, but i could easily find it in Google maps. On the web, i found the business that operates there, which indicates it's a glider port.

However, while this is probably a private airstrip, i'm curious why it's not listed on the sectional and whether i might get permission to land there one day.
 
It's not listed because the owners probably don't want it listed. There is no requirement for it to be listed.

And you can land there if you get the owners' permission.

Your insurance company MAY have other ideas, however.
 
When you submit your "notice to construct" there's a checkbox on the form if you want the airport shown on sectionals. As Greg points out it's optional and can be changed my modifying the airport master record at any time (though it probably ends up taking about two full charting cycles to actually get the change done).
 
Look closely, and you'll find a LOT of private strips that aren't on the sectional.

Last time I went out for SAR training, I spotted one on a ridge top just southwest of Lake Berryessa. There are at least three between Mt. Hamilton and Los Banos.

Not rare.

Some of them are in the FAA database, but not in the A/FD. Look up 59CA, for instance.
 
Off the top of my head, I can think of several private strips In southeastern Michigan that are not on the charts.
 
MAKG1 said:
Look closely, and you'll find a LOT of private strips that aren't on the sectional.

Last time I went out for SAR training, I spotted one on a ridge top just southwest of Lake Berryessa. There are at least three between Mt. Hamilton and Los Banos.

Not rare.

Some of them are in the FAA database, but not in the A/FD. Look up 59CA, for instance.
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very interesting. Yes, by knowing the airport identifier, i could find 59CA in Skyvector, but not the AFD. This is crazy. Does anyone know if there is an unofficial directory of these ghost airports?
 
Why is it crazy? It is a free country if you don't want your airport charted fair enough.
 
bbridges51 said:
very interesting. Yes, by knowing the airport identifier, i could find 59CA in Skyvector, but not the AFD. This is crazy. Does anyone know if there is an unofficial directory of these ghost airports?
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Even the private airports that are charted don't show in the AF/D. You can look them up in the airport master records which is what generates the data that things like Airnav.com and Foreflight's directories use.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, should my engine quit someday, it would be nice to know if an airport, charted or uncharted, was nearby.
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Many of these aren't hard to spot with Mark I Eyeballs.

Since many are unlit and obstructed, if you aren't in day VFR conditions, a field may be just as good.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, should my engine quit someday, it would be nice to know if an airport, charted or uncharted, was nearby.
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Private airport owners don't owe you that. They don't owe you anything.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, should my engine quit someday, it would be nice to know if an airport, charted or uncharted, was nearby.
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Because if your engine should quit someday and you were without knowledge of a nearby airport you'd be stuck in the air?
 
roncachamp said:
Because if your engine should quit someday and you were without knowledge of a nearby airport you'd be stuck in the air?
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well, that might be nice, but given that i could glide to a private airport or take my chances on a field, i'd take the airport.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, that might be nice, but given that i could glide to a private airport or take my chances on a field, i'd take the airport.
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Given that you don't have NOTAM services to private uncharted airports, a field may very well be better. You may not be able to tell the runway condition until committed to it, and it would really suck if the owner was grazing his cattle at that particular time and place.
 
bbridges51 said:
.............. On the web, i found the business that operates there, which indicates it's a glider port.

However, while this is probably a private airstrip, i'm curious why it's not listed on the sectional and whether i might get permission to land there one day.
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There's a bunch of private airports that aren't federally designated and not on the charts. If you want to land on this one I'd suggest you call the owner and ask permission.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, that might be nice, but given that i could glide to a private airport or take my chances on a field, i'd take the airport.
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You're taking your chances either way. Think of the owner's decision not to have the strip charted as a form of warning. Of course if you have an emergency and spot the strip, and it looks like your best option, by all means take it. But one reason for not having it charted might be so that you don't go out of your way hunting for it in case of emergency.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, that might be nice, but given that i could glide to a private airport or take my chances on a field, i'd take the airport.
Click to expand...

There's not a lot of difference between a field and many of these uncharted airports.
 
MAKG1 said:
Given that you don't have NOTAM services to private uncharted airports, a field may very well be better. You may not be able to tell the runway condition until committed to it, and it would really suck if the owner was grazing his cattle at that particular time and place.
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Yeah, but that would apply to any field you chose to land in.
 
bbridges51 said:
well, should my engine quit someday, it would be nice to know if an airport, charted or uncharted, was nearby.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly why I had my private airport 2WY3 charted and put in the FAA database.... I would rather shake the hand of a fellow aviator who had problems, and help them fix his/her plane,, then meet the next of kin after finding the wreckage in the mountains......:sad:
 
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Greg Bockelman said:
Yeah, but that would apply to any field you chose to land in.
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Of course, which means there is no reason to favor a private airport over a field. If the OP gets a good look at what some of these are like, he'll opt for the fields.

The one he pointed out could well have a glider stopped in the middle of the runway, or worse, on short final. It's a glider port. While an airplane in distress has the right of way over a glider, there's not much a glider can do.

Some of the private airports are nice, but most of the uncharted ones are little more than a dirt road or an open field, that may have been disused as an airport for many years.
 
peerlesscowboy said:
There's a bunch of private airports that aren't federally designated and not on the charts. If you want to land on this one I'd suggest you call the owner and ask permission.
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If they don't have a federal designation they're probably illegal. The FAA will issue you an identifier as soon as you file the required intent to construct. As pointed out, private use fields do not show in the A/FD and the owner has the option as to whether they are charted or not.
 
Or I could be out there mowing the grass. Or we could have dug a giant hole in the middle of the field but since it's not open there won't be a NOTAM.
 
flyingron said:
If they don't have a federal designation they're probably illegal. The FAA will issue you an identifier as soon as you file the required intent to construct. As pointed out, private use fields do not show in the A/FD and the owner has the option as to whether they are charted or not.
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They is no such thing as an illegal private airport.
 
flyingron said:
If they don't have a federal designation they're probably illegal. The FAA will issue you an identifier as soon as you file the required intent to construct. As pointed out, private use fields do not show in the A/FD and the owner has the option as to whether they are charted or not.
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What law would be violated?
 
N801BH said:
Which is exactly why I had my private airport 2YW3 charted and put in the FAA database.... I would rather shake the hand of a fellow aviator who had problems, and help them fix his/her plane,, then meet the next of kin after finding the wreckage in the mountains......:sad:
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I agree
 
And this is why i LOVE PoA. I'm always learning something new here.
 
N801BH said:
Which is exactly why I had my private airport 2YW3 charted and put in the FAA database.... I would rather shake the hand of a fellow aviator who had problems, and help them fix his/her plane,, then meet the next of kin after finding the wreckage in the mountains......:sad:
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Funny, it isn't listed on Airnav.com
 
I over-fly private airstrips all over Texas that aren't listed on the sectional. I look down and see what appears to be a landing strip, check the sectional, and see nothing. Then I think, "Lucky SOB - got his own runway."
 
My dad's ag strip was in continuous use for some 40 years. It never was registered or listed anywhere. There are a number of unmarked private fields around here as well.


Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
 
The airport I fly from for work is not in anyones database. There was no notice provided to anyone for intent to construct, build or anything else to my knowledge. Why does it seem everyone assumes the government has to give us permission to do things?? It is supposed to be the other way around.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The airport I fly from for work is not in anyones database. There was no notice provided to anyone for intent to construct, build or anything else to my knowledge. Why does it seem everyone assumes the government has to give us permission to do things?? It is supposed to be the other way around.
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Thank you.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
The airport I fly from for work is not in anyones database. There was no notice provided to anyone for intent to construct, build or anything else to my knowledge. Why does it seem everyone assumes the government has to give us permission to do things?? It is supposed to be the other way around.
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You don't need PERMISSION.

You must file NOTICE TO CONSTRUCT. That's the law.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Funny, it isn't listed on Airnav.com
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It is listed, but it's 2WY3 not 2YW3. 2YW3 isn't a legal identifier.
2WY3 is register to Ben Haas which I have a strong feeling is the same person who owns 801BH.
 
bbridges51 said:
Driving three hours yesterday to have Thanksgiving with my family near Middletown, CA, i lamented that there wasn't an airport closer to them than Lampson field, <1o2>, which is too far away. However, taking a different route home, i noticed an airfield about two miles north of town, along the highway. The SF sectional doesn't list it, but i could easily find it in Google maps. On the web, i found the business that operates there, which indicates it's a glider port.

However, while this is probably a private airstrip, i'm curious why it's not listed on the sectional and whether i might get permission to land there one day.
Click to expand...

Some private airfields are not listed if the owner doesn't want to be listed
 
This thread makes me wonder, why do they continue to mark Hamilton Field on the SF sectional as a closed airport when there is no airport there at all anymore, but open, functioning ones like the OP discovered are not? :dunno:
 
flyingron said:
You don't need PERMISSION.

You must file NOTICE TO CONSTRUCT. That's the law.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I wonder if that ever happened here.....Might have. They know where we are regardless. FAA guy comes here to do our ops inspection on a regular basis. When did that requirement come about? The runway has been around for over 30 years.

Not that it really matters. Just curious.
 
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