Slowing down to Va in turbulent conditions

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josephades

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How turbulent does it need to get where you find it necessary to slow down to Va or lower?

In my case I fly a Piper Archer (PA28)

Usually when it is pretty light and it happens sporadically and infrequently I just ride through it below yellow line. When it becomes uncomfortable and when approaching the category of moderate turbulence, I slow it down to Va or lower. At that point, of course, the airspeed is fluctuating due to the severity of the turbulence, but I do my best.

Just wanted to make sure the habit is acceptable, or even necessary, to prevent structural damage.
 
When I start to frequently bang my head into the headliner, it's time to slow down. When you look like this :vomit: after that $100 burger, its time to slow down.
 
Your Archer will exceed the top of the green arc? ;)

Edit: ok, joking aside, yeah slowing to Va in bumps, its really a case of "you'll know when you need to". On the warrior Va is 111 at max gross, so its rare I need to do much slowing down, and it happens quick. I bet a Mooney or Bo flyer would have something more interesting to say.
 
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There’s been some good discussion of what Va really means on this board. That response doesn’t help you just thought I’d let folks know.

Slowing for moderate (objects in the cabin moving if not secured) is usually more about comfort than immediate structural concerns. Of course the real problem is that it can be difficult to see where the severe turbulence may be. Sometimes clouds give us a clue such as rotors, ‘confused air’, or clouds downwind of a mountain peak. I can count the times I’ve truly lost control of the aircraft (severe turbulence) on one hand in over 800 hours of flying. I’m based in Denver and have a fair bit of time amongst the rocks so that observation has some (limited) meaning. Of course there are many, many folks with many more hours in spam cans amongst the rocks than me and some of them post here.
 
Everyone has their comfort level. Some captains I fly with slow down at the smallest bump. Some ride it out until it gets pretty rough. I’m somewhere in the middle.
 
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jordane93 said:
Everyone has their comfort level. Some captains slow down at the smallest bump. Some ride it out until it gets pretty rough. I’m somewhere in the middle.
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I thought you were on the right?
 
I can't say I've ever encountered heavy turbulence but I've been in moderate. Getting vectored into a building cumulous or hitting clear air convection as the day warms up, I've had the wings rocked over pretty good and bumps hard and sudden enough to bite my tongue. Usually, I back off the throttle a tad in those cases. I don't think any of my encounters necessitated flying at Va, really it's more of a comfort thing. I really hate turbulence so when it gets bumpy, I'd rather be slow and comfortable.
 
Around 170 is VNO in my planes and I can't hit that in level flight, so light turb is fine. Mod or higher, I'll play it safe and go down to VA which is around 145.

In helos, none that I've seen have a VNO or VA but may have a turb penetration speed. If nothing is published, I'll still slow down in mod or greater to ease stress on the aircraft.
 
josephades said:
Usually when it is pretty light and it happens sporadically and infrequently I just ride through it below yellow line. When it becomes uncomfortable and when approaching the category of moderate turbulence, I slow it down to Va
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This is what I do.
 
Zeldman said:
Spinach and broccoli smoothie
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damn man, I hope you give that smoothie some help.
I've been on some juicing stints, and the only juice I absolutely could not take was broccoli.
I'll eat broccoli cooked any day, and raw with some sort of help...but I could never help the juice enough to stomach it.
 
Skyrys62 said:
damn man, I hope you give that smoothie some help.
I've been on some juicing stints, and the only juice I absolutely could not take was broccoli.
I'll eat broccoli cooked any day, and raw with some sort of help...but I could never help the juice enough to stomach it.
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I tried sneaking some vodka in it, but my wife found my stash....
 
I've often wondered this myself

I'd be curious what it would take to actually structurally fail a 1970s spam can. Rig up some remote control assembly and fly the planes over the desert in ever more aggressive maneuvers both at Va and above until destruction. Be interesting to see the real world results

I know of at least one pa28-181 that lost a wing in IMC and believe there are some other types, including a Cessna 210, etc. Infact, of GA planes isn't the Socata TB20 the only one without any inflght breakups?
 
If I hit the elevator or aileron stops, I slow down.
 
When you get into severe turbulence you’ll be convinced your airframe is being stressed beyond it’s safe limits and yours. Controlling your speed is a matter of pitching the airplane since there’s little else you can do, and that doesn’t always yield what you’d like as you climb at 3000 fpm at flight idle with the nose pointed down only to hit the other side of the draft, get pounded by a big invisible hammer, and go down at 3000 fpm while at full power in a Vx climb attitude with the ground getting closer and you having no control of it. That transition at the top will make you wonder when your wings are coming off, not if they’ll come off. Maybe some of you guys don’t mind that kind of flying but all I want to do is get the hell out of there. Flying away at Va in hard bumps as it gives way to moderate turbulence is a relief. At least I have some control.

When I get into anything more than light chop I slow the plane down. That’s for my comfort more than anything. I don't drive my truck fast on bumpy roads, I don't drive my boat fast in choppy water, and I don't fly my planes fast in rough air.
 
Stewartb said:
When you get into severe turbulence you’ll be convinced your airframe is being stressed beyond it’s safe limits and yours.
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I flew a C-210 into the prettiest, well actually, the knarliest level 4 + 5 embedded thunderstorms between Florida and Mississippi. I was convinced this was my last flight. I never went inverted but got close several times. No matter what airspeed I tried to hold, the stall warning was going off. I slowed to the top of the white arc because it was easier to see in all the bumps. ATC gave me a 2000 ft block of airspace. When I told them I am not able to hold that, they just asked me to stay above 3000 MSL. I was over open water and they wanted me to stay within gliding distance. My thoughts were how far will I glide without any wings.

I quit that job several times on that flight. Problem was I still had to fly home in that plane....
 
Stewartb said:
...............................I don't drive my truck fast on bumpy roads, I don't drive my boat fast in choppy water, and I don't fly my planes fast in rough air.
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Well put. Hope ya ain't got that copywrited, because I'm gonna be repeating it
 
vA in my 182 is 111kts, but I don't slow down unless it is really rough. I was flying to BNA last week and it got pretty bad, but it makes more sense to keep my speed up get it over with as long as I'm not with any lightweight pax.
 
Your Va is at gross. It's lower at lighter weights. Not that Va is the end-all for turbulence speeds. Your better target should be slower than Va.
 
I’m still trying to figure out why you all hate Virginia. I mean seriously. I could see you making a joke to slow down to West Virginia speeds, but Virginia? That’s just mean. :)
 
denverpilot said:
I’m still trying to figure out why you all hate Virginia. I mean seriously. I could see you making a joke to slow down to West Virginia speeds, but Virginia? That’s just mean. :)
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You HAVE to slow down in Virginia.....the roads are terrible!


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When the head meets the headliner- slow down. Happens.

Near as I can tell, loss of control and pulling the wings off is my biggest worry. (Later v tails have stronger wings so you pull the tail off instead.) hard to get in the yellow in level flight. Pitch down and then one needs to throttle back.

I hear the 33 (straight tail Bonanzas) haven’t come apart in flight. Of course some of them are full acro.
 
denverpilot said:
I’m still trying to figure out why you all hate Virginia. I mean seriously. I could see you making a joke to slow down to West Virginia speeds, but Virginia? That’s just mean. :)
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Well for starters, I hear that VA folks are just wannabe southeasterners just like those folks in that other state.

But on a serious note, I tend to slow the plane down when the turbulence is bad enough to cause those two remaining marbles in my head to smash together too hard.

Or to be even more serious, the minute the bumps become the least bit uncomfortable I figure it's time to slow down.
 
Skyrys62 said:
I'll eat broccoli cooked any day, and raw with some sort of help...but I could never help the juice enough to stomach it.
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I’m with ya. I can’t down raw broccoli to save my life. I can handle just about anything else.

SkyDog58 said:
I tend to slow the plane down when the turbulence is bad enough to cause those two remaining marbles in my head to smash together too hard.
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Must be nice to have two.. :crazy:
 
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