Slipping or Crabbing in a Crosswind?

Po-TAH-to, po-TAY-to. Whatever gets you on the ground safely. Personally, I find it easier to crab and enter a slip over the fence or just before flare to land upwind wing low. I just don't like holding and continuously adjusting a slip on final as the wind changes with altitude, and some passengers find slips discomfiting. I'm not exactly flying big iron, so it's nimble enough to make adjustments at the end of the approach. YMMV. Do what works.
 
455 Bravo Uniform said:
You mean crabbed?
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Yah sorry I got mixed up, yes crab, then they didn’t like slipping as well since we were “coming down weird “. These days I just try to take pax when it’s light and variable. Hard to find
 
Ryanb said:
I’ve never liked the idea of being uncoordinated and low to the ground at the same time.
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There is nothing inherently unsafe about slipping a plane properly, low to the ground or otherwise. You won't stall, spin, crash, and burn. Indeed, slipping is a maneuver that could save your bacon in a loss of power situation when you need to lose altitude pronto to make your emergency landing spot. If you are not confident with slips, have an instructor go up with you and discover this useful part of the flight envelope. Indeed when you kick out of that crosswind crab to land upwind wing low, you are slipping.

If you fly a vintage plane, slipping is the primary (only) means of adding drag on landing...no flaps. My primary instructor taught me slips in every aircraft model we flew in, and the vintage Tiger Moth I got to take a spin in with its owner worked the same way.

Grumman AA1x and AA5x planes will slip like no tomorrow. The 1A could lose altitude at a spectacular rate in a serious forward slip, and could handle bodacious crosswinds.
 
chemgeek said:
There is nothing inherently unsafe about slipping a plane properly, low to the ground or otherwise. You won't stall, spin, crash, and burn. Indeed, slipping is a maneuver that could save your bacon in a loss of power situation when you need to lose altitude pronto to make your emergency landing spot. If you are not confident with slips, have an instructor go up with you and discover this useful part of the flight envelope. Indeed when you kick out of that crosswind crab to land upwind wing low, you are slipping.

If you fly a vintage plane, slipping is the primary (only) means of adding drag on landing...no flaps. My primary instructor taught me slips in every aircraft model we flew in, and the vintage Tiger Moth I got to take a spin in with its owner worked the same way.

Grumman AA1x and AA5x planes will slip like no tomorrow. The 1A could lose altitude at a spectacular rate in a serious forward slip, and could handle bodacious crosswinds.
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This isn’t my first rodeo. I’m aware of all the ins and outs of slipping. I just prefer not to do it during a crosswind, so I crab dance it down final.
 
I used to always use the crab method but watched this YouTube video and tried the slip. Works good for me.

 
The one and only difference between the two methods is when you transition to aileron into the wind (with rudder to maintain alignment).

A POH may indicate a recommended (or limited) when. Passenger comfort may make a later when better than an earlier when. Other than that, the when is pretty much up to you.
 
I only slip while IMC to 0/0. And I am having castering wheels installed all around so all this slip/crab nonsense goes away.
 
I used to crab a lot when I flew Low wing pipers. But I don’t really do it in the 182 that much. And believe me it’s not a matter of always being great with my approaches, I do often get a bit high. Maybe this is something I should review with my CFI.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The one and only difference between the two methods is when you transition to aileron into the wind (with rudder to maintain alignment).

A POH may indicate a recommended (or limited) when. Passenger comfort may make a later when better than an earlier when. Other than that, the when is pretty much up to you.
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When did you say? o_O
 
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midlifeflyer said:
The one and only difference between the two methods is when you transition to aileron into the wind (with rudder to maintain alignment).
.
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Hmmm, I think it’s actually more like WHEN you apply RUDDER cross control:
- with “crab and kick” , aileron control to crab early on w rudder added only late to align nose;
- with cross control slip, both aileron and rudder control early on.
May be what you meant, but didn’t come across that way.
 
wrbix said:
Hmmm, I think it’s actually more like WHEN you apply RUDDER cross control:
- with “crab and kick” , aileron control to crab early on w rudder added only late to align nose;
- with cross control slip, both aileron and rudder control early on.
May be what you meant, but didn’t come across that way.
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I said exactly what I meant. A crab is an aileron neutral maneuver. You fly in a crab at altitude most of the time (all the time the wind is other than directly on your nose or tail). Same for the crab on approach to landing.

Aside from the "kick," the touchdown and rollout of a crosswind landing requires full aileron deflection. Try landing in a 20kt crosswind without putting aileron into the wind as you touch down. Wait. Better yet, don't. It's not pretty.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I said exactly what I meant. A crab is an aileron neutral maneuver. You fly in a crab at altitude most of the time (all the time the wind is other than directly on your nose or tail). Same for the crab on approach to landing.

Aside from the "kick," the touchdown and rollout of a crosswind landing requires full aileron deflection. Try landing in a 20kt crosswind without putting aileron into the wind as you touch down. Wait. Better yet, don't. It's not pretty.
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OK, maybe it’s another one of many terminology issues.
Correct me please if I’m wrong, but the Crab and Kick is essentially a coordinated crab into the wind early in lining up with neutralization of aileron thereafter until in the flair when opposite rudder is applied. Thus, what I meant by the difference in techniques being WHEN the RUDDER cross control is added.
 
wrbix said:
OK, maybe it’s another one of many terminology issues.
Correct me please if I’m wrong, but the Crab and Kick is essentially a coordinated crab into the wind early in lining up with neutralization of aileron thereafter until in the flair when opposite rudder is applied. Thus, what I meant by the difference in techniques being WHEN the RUDDER cross control is added.
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Egg-zackly. If you don't enter a slip at some point your nose isn't pointing down the runway in a crosswind. You can start on final (poTAYto) or immediately before touching down (poTAHto).
 
Whatever works. I’m a definite crabber until I begin the flare, then I align the nose with the centerline and bank as much o r little as necessary to remain tracking over the centerline, I should be clear, while I’m doing the straighten out/arrest the drift thing I arrest the sinkrate, (with power) and only when I’be got all that together will I let the airplane land. Any tail wheel pilot will tell you that’s when the entertainment begins.
 
Crab all the way and then kick it out, it’s the way I was taught
 
Sadly, the max xwind component I’ve had to deal with is 1-2 knots. Generally the winds are either benign or heck no a 172 isn’t going up in that. I hope one day to find a way to get some actual decent xwind training with a cfi.
 
woodchucker said:
Sadly, the max xwind component I’ve had to deal with is 1-2 knots. Generally the winds are either benign or heck no a 172 isn’t going up in that. I hope one day to find a way to get some actual decent xwind training with a cfi.
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Please do! 2 knots isn’t even really a cross wind. That’s just the margin of error on the wind sock vs the flag. :) :) :)
 
Being out for over 20 years until this past March, real crosswind training was a distant memory until this week. I am working on my TW endorsement in a Super Cub and the last session was 12G21 across the runway and occasionally behind us. Needless to say, it was valuable experience (exciting at times) and 105 degrees to boot...FWIW, my preference is crab/kick/slip on short final or over the threshold.

As others have said, whatever it takes. On days with strong and gusty crosswinds, you may want to slip a mile out to see if you have enough control to even try to land.
 
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Clip4 said:
Both. You should crab until short final, then side slip for the landing. just kicking the rudder will not keep you in the center of the runway
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x2

You can slip all the way down final but that is just wasted leg energy.
 
denverpilot said:
Please do! 2 knots isn’t even really a cross wind. That’s just the margin of error on the wind sock vs the flag. :) :) :)
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I know! It’s just that winds here are so predictable and consistent. But it’s a big limitation for me until I get that additional training/experience. o_O <— wind blown emoji
 
woodchucker said:
I know! It’s just that winds here are so predictable and consistent. But it’s a big limitation for me until I get that additional training/experience. o_O <— wind blown emoji
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I hear ya. You may have to go elsewhere to find some wind to play in. It’s worth the trip. Sooner or later one returns from going somewhere and the wind is howling across the runway and wasn’t forecast to do so.

Loss of control on the ground are the type accidents and incidents which are currently increasing vs all others, according to local DPEs who were lectured on it by FAA doing a national tour on said problem, as their hot button topic these days.
 
wrbix said:
OK, maybe it’s another one of many terminology issues.
Correct me please if I’m wrong, but the Crab and Kick is essentially a coordinated crab into the wind early in lining up with neutralization of aileron thereafter until in the flair when opposite rudder is applied. Thus, what I meant by the difference in techniques being WHEN the RUDDER cross control is added.
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Which is exactly what I said. Our difference is that you seem to be neglecting that essential opposite aileron to prevent the wind from blowing you across and off the runway as you touch down. You are treating it as a rudder only change. I am treating it as a rudder and aileron cross-control maneuver, even if your timing is so great that you do it 0.1 second before touchdown.
 
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woodchucker said:
Sadly, the max xwind component I’ve had to deal with is 1-2 knots. Generally the winds are either benign or heck no a 172 isn’t going up in that. I hope one day to find a way to get some actual decent xwind training with a cfi.
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One of the great things where I taught in Colorado were the winds. The runway was North-South but the winds would vary from generally light southeasterly in the morning, rotating clockwise through the day, and increasing in intensity as the moved westerly in the afternoon. We were able to schedule lessons to take advantage of it. Light and benign in the morning for newer students; significant and challenging in the pm as they advanced. Some schools wouldn't authorize solos away until the student could handle a 10 kt crosswind.

You should be able to find that happy medium. And remember that one person's "heck no!" might be a particular instructor's "this is fun!" (even staying within the demonstrated crosswind component).
 
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