Skydiving / Jump Operations

[Geico266]

Saturday I flew under 2 parachutes.
I had no idea there were jumpers in the air at my local airport.
Had I been in a high wing the jumpers would have had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Turns out the jump plane pilot was talking to ATC, but not the local CTAF. I was monitoring both, but the heavy radio traffic on CTAF kept the ATC info "covered up." Lster, the pilot ssid ATC does not "turn them lose" soon enough and they don't have time to announce meat bomb on CTAF.

Why is talking to ATC 15 miles away a priority over talking to the CTAF where the meat bombs are landing?

What do other jump plane pilots do in your area? Any FARS covering this?

 

[JHW]

it's been awhile since I flew jumpers in college, but I can't recall ever waiting for center to "turn me loose" before talking on local. The plane had 2 radios, it's not hard to flip back and forth and talk on each frequency while listening to both of them.

 

[Geico266]

it's been awhile since I flew jumpers in college, but I can't recall ever waiting for center to "turn me loose" before talking on local. The plane had 2 radios, it's not hard to flip back and forth and talk on each frequency while listening to both of them.

This seems to make sense, but why would ATC even need to be contacted? Why not talk to CAF as the primary freq? Remember "C" space is 15 miles away. I realize there could be traffic coming in and they would fly over the small airport to get to "C" space, but c!early the higher traffic is at the airport where the jumpers are landing.

 

[brian]]

I don't know, but this is one thing that scares the foo out of me.

There is one airport over by Tulsa that is very active. I found out after diverting there once and watched a jumper come in just after I climbed out of my airplane. Been over there a couple times since and man, you just don't know which direction to look (down for the jump plane) or where to listen (not bad with ATC, but ...)

Only option I know is to know where they are active and call / ask the locals.

(Just not something I have to think about around my little patch.)

 

[dmspilot]

The jump pilot at my airport talks on both CTAF and approach, the latter of which is 25nm away. I've never heard of skydiving ops not doing a countdown on CTAF.

 

[Geico266]

It makes the most sense to communicate with the traffic at the airport where the jumpers are landing. Several pilots at my airport have had "incidents" where the jumpers are landing or in the air as planes take off with no announcement from the jump plane because they are talking to ATC. That just doesn't make sense to me.

This is not a "bash jumpers" situation, I would just rather not kill one, or myself.

 

[jason]

14 CFR 105 requires ATC authorization when jumping into Class A, B, C, or D airspace. Prior to jumping into Class E and G airspace, the appropriate ATC facility must simply be notified beforehand.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I don't know, but this is one thing that scares the foo out of me.

There is one airport over by Tulsa that is very active. I found out after diverting there once and watched a jumper come in just after I climbed out of my airplane. Been over there a couple times since and man, you just don't know which direction to look (down for the jump plane) or where to listen (not bad with ATC, but ...)

Only option I know is to know where they are active and call / ask the locals.

(Just not something I have to think about around my little patch.)

I was talking with a jump pilot from that airport near Tulsa, just the other day. He told me that the jumpers can see the airplanes very well, and they have control of the parachutes. They "see and avoid" the airplanes. In describing how much control they have, he gave an example of a double amputee who would lay his crutches in an X on the ground, saying "This is where I will land," and then always land right next to them and walk away.

 

[flyingron]

We've got one operation just north of my home strip that is ROUTINELY late with their "jumpers away" notifications. Typically these meat bombs are under canopy by the time they do it. Second, the MORON pilot hasn't figured out he needs to PRESS the mic button...then talk...then release the mic button. He routinely clips off the name of the airport (and we have several jump operations in the area.

I know it's not ATC's fault nor the local jump frequency, because the other two operations in the area do NOT have the problem this MORON does.

 

[flyingron]

I was talking with a jump pilot from that airport near Tulsa, just the other day. He told me that the jumpers can see the airplanes very well, and they have control of the parachutes. They "see and avoid" the airplanes.

Parachutes aren't the problem, it's the meat bombs in freefall that are the problem.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Parachutes aren't the problem, it's the meat bombs in freefall that are the problem.

Pilots are the problem. People been parachute jumping hundreds of years longer then they've been flying airplanes.

 

[Old Geek]

The jump pilot at my airport talks on both CTAF and approach, the latter of which is 25nm away. I've never heard of skydiving ops not doing a countdown on CTAF.

This. I fly out of an airport with a very busy jump school/facility. The pilots are meticulous about keeping everyone on CTAF informed. The bigger concern I have is their habit of landing on whichever runway that takes them closer to the jump school.

 

[James331]

Parachutes aren't the problem, it's the meat bombs in freefall that are the problem.

Uhhh, NO

You catch nylon your wing and or tail is comming off, and that's best case scenario, if you end up dragging a canopy you're dead, even a high performance 100sqft canopy.

Check your NOTAMs and do not overfly any area where this is parachute activity without talking to someone with knowledge of the ops first.

I've had a few times I almost punched a old dude out for nearly killing one of my friends when I was flying jumpers,

"You read NOTAMS?!"

"Uhh, uhh, [insert lame excuse]"

 

[MAKG1]

This seems to make sense, but why would ATC even need to be contacted? Why not talk to CAF as the primary freq? Remember "C" space is 15 miles away. I realize there could be traffic coming in and they would fly over the small airport to get to "C" space, but c!early the higher traffic is at the airport where the jumpers are landing.

My local airport dumps meat bombs from 12,000. There is a fair amount of transiting traffic below that altitude talking to Approach rather than CTAF. Approach is used for reasons other than Class C transitions. A lot of locals use it for flight following. And if you're on FF and it's busy, switching to every CTAF around is not helpful. For the most part, if you're 5000 feet above the airport, its local traffic is pretty much irrelevant. Except for meat bombs.

You need both.

 

[Henning]

Saturday I flew under 2 parachutes.
I had no idea there were jumpers in the air at my local airport.
Had I been in a high wing the jumpers would have had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Turns out the jump plane pilot was talking to ATC, but not the local CTAF. I was monitoring both, but the heavy radio traffic on CTAF kept the ATC info "covered up." Lster, the pilot ssid ATC does not "turn them lose" soon enough and they don't have time to announce meat bomb on CTAF.

Why is talking to ATC 15 miles away a priority over talking to the CTAF where the meat bombs are landing?

What do other jump plane pilots do in your area? Any FARS covering this?

Yes, the FARs cover this, and the jump pilot is acting in accordance.

 

[Henning]

This seems to make sense, but why would ATC even need to be contacted? Why not talk to CAF as the primary freq? Remember "C" space is 15 miles away. I realize there could be traffic coming in and they would fly over the small airport to get to "C" space, but c!early the higher traffic is at the airport where the jumpers are landing.

Because ATC controls IFR traffic which will cover the commercial operators. They aren't concerned with you if you aren't concerned with being on with them. I always get notified by ATC of jump ops and get an early, low impact (pun kinda intended) diversion to take me around.

That said, I always told ATC "going to CTAF to announce, back in a second" called "Jumpers in 15 seconds" on CTAF and flip back over to ATC and call my "Jumpers Away" to them.

 

[flyingron]

Uhhh, NO

I was countering the fact that skydivers were going to steer their canopies away from aircraft made by the previous poster. Still, skydiver's under canopy are a lot more visible and less than a problem to avoid by the pilot as well (which was the point I was trying to make, not that it was safer to strike a skydiver under canopy).

Your pictures and alleged example are not of an unrelated aircraft coming into contact with a skydiver. That was an incident in South Africa with a premature deployment as the jumper was exiting that aircraft. Hardly the same thing. Oh and by the way, that incident led to serious injuries of the jumper but no injuries to the pilot or the remaining passenger aboard.

In fact collisions between jumpers and aircraft are fairly uncommon and I can think of only one case I've ever heard of where it wasn't a plane involved in the skydiving operation. Either a case where a jumper or his gear collided with the plane he was jumping from or as in the case we had here a couple of years back where a jump plane and a landing jumper came together near the runway.

I've had a few times I almost punched a old dude out for nearly killing one of my friends when I was flying jumpers,

You're the reason jump operations get a bad name.

"You read NOTAMS?!"

"Uhh, uhh, [insert lame excuse]"

A NOTAM is not carte blanche to ignore the FAA regulations and operate in an unsafe manner. I've jumped. I've operated at fields and adjacent fields with professional and safe jump operations that meld well with the other users of the airspace and the facility. My complaints are with a few cowboys who either don't care or intentionally operate unsafely.

 

[Richard]

This is prime example of the AF/D being a good read. Even if you don't use the green book, the sectional chart has the jumpers symbol. Finally, if you are in the area why not monitor center?

I know how frightening it can be to fly through jumpers. In that case it was the diver driver who screwed up royally.

 

[James331]

I was countering the fact that skydivers were going to steer their canopies away from aircraft made by the previous poster. Still, skydiver's under canopy are a lot more visible and less than a problem to avoid by the pilot as well (which was the point I was trying to make, not that it was safer to strike a skydiver under canopy).

Your pictures and alleged example are not of an unrelated aircraft coming into contact with a skydiver. That was an incident in South Africa with a premature deployment as the jumper was exiting that aircraft. Hardly the same thing. Oh and by the way, that incident led to serious injuries of the jumper but no injuries to the pilot or the remaining passenger aboard.

In fact collisions between jumpers and aircraft are fairly uncommon and I can think of only one case I've ever heard of where it wasn't a plane involved in the skydiving operation. Either a case where a jumper or his gear collided with the plane he was jumping from or as in the case we had here a couple of years back where a jump plane and a landing jumper came together near the runway.


You're the reason jump operations get a bad name.

A NOTAM is not carte blanche to ignore the FAA regulations and operate in an unsafe manner. I've jumped. I've operated at fields and adjacent fields with professional and safe jump operations that meld well with the other users of the airspace and the facility. My complaints are with a few cowboys who either don't care or intentionally operate unsafely.

Lol, steer away, well presuming they see you, secondly forward speed 30ish MPH, they can dive on from risers, but still often by the time they know you're there, there isn't time

AGAIN, if you read and comprehend the NOTAM this should never be a issue.

Well catching a canopy on your wing or tail tends to turn out the same ether way, and yeah I know where that post came from, infact it was a earlier post of it that I made which is probably the reason you know about it.

Second you fly inside a parachute NOTAM without talking to someone about it, your asking for a problem, it ain't that hard to call the DZ up and ask where they give them the cut, where their landing area is, recommended entry etc.

I'm giving skydiving a bad name, boy you're off base. I flew for a very large turbine DZ, did just fine, no one gut hurt, no metal bent, no FARs broken, when I was a skydive pilot / USPA licensed junper I did what was sposed to do. Made my calls on CTAF and with ATC, monitored both all the time, checked for traffic, winds etc.

Now the old morons who would fly right over the landing area playing WWII ace in their little RVs and what not, that's you're problem.

Not one of the rookies that I had that chat with ever did it again.

Again,
DONT FLY INTO A NOTAM UNLESS YOU 100% UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE IT.

 

[eetrojan]

*** it ain't that hard to call the DZ up and ask where they give them the cut, where their landing area is, recommended entry etc.

***

Again,
DONT FLY INTO A NOTAM UNLESS YOU 100% UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING INSIDE IT.

Hi James - I once called the jump operation at Lake Elsinore, CA, specifically to make some inquiries like that, and while the nice young lady took my message, they didn't return my call. I was hoping to circumnavigate the lake with my uncle who lives nearby, and wanted to do it as safely as possible with their guidance.

Given their lack of response, what should I understand from the NOTAM?

This is a sincere question.

Joe

 

[GMascelli]

At my new home airport KOXB, Ocean City MD the jump plane does a great job of calling out time until jumpers away and when he drops the meat missiles and then chutes open. I think he calls Patuxent approach too, I know I've heard him while I was inbound.

its only a few minutes delay when they are out of the plane so circle and enjoy the view of the ocean or count chutes.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

At my new home airport KOXB, Ocean City MD the jump plane does a great job of calling out time until jumpers away and when he drops the meat missiles and then chutes open. I think he calls Patuxent approach too, I know I've heard him while I was inbound.

its only a few minutes delay when they are out of the plane so circle and enjoy the view of the ocean or count chutes.

*meat bombs. Feel free to look up "meat missiles."

Back on topic, I don't like jumpers. I never have and I never will. They render the airspace and airport almost completely useless you know first hand on how everything operates. They're just a PITA.

 

[ClimbnSink]

*meat bombs. Feel free to look up "meat missiles."

Back on topic, I don't like jumpers. I never have and I never will. They render the airspace and airport almost completely useless you know first hand on how everything operates. They're just a PITA.

Skydiving is the only vibrant section of GA.

 

[jesse]

Saturday I flew under 2 parachutes.
I had no idea there were jumpers in the air at my local airport.
Had I been in a high wing the jumpers would have had to take evasive action to avoid a collision.

Turns out the jump plane pilot was talking to ATC, but not the local CTAF. I was monitoring both, but the heavy radio traffic on CTAF kept the ATC info "covered up." Lster, the pilot ssid ATC does not "turn them lose" soon enough and they don't have time to announce meat bomb on CTAF.

Why is talking to ATC 15 miles away a priority over talking to the CTAF where the meat bombs are landing?

What do other jump plane pilots do in your area? Any FARS covering this?

Larry. The LoA from the FSDO for the jump zone requires they be communicating with LNK ATC. They must notify ATC 1 minute prior and when the jumpers are away. The airplane is equipped with a single COM radio so they have no way to talk on both.

Since I did fly jumpers at Crete at one time I'll give my two cents...When I flew there I did the following:

CTAF (me): "Crete traffic, Skydive XXX departing runway 18, climbing on X side of airport (I'd pick a side unlikely to interfere with VFR traffic). Jump run at 3,500 and 10,500."

After about 30 seconds, switch to LNK Approach.

APR FREQ (me): "Omaha Approach, Skydive XXX departed Crete climbing through 3,000. Jump run at 10,500"

APR FREQ (atc): "Skydive XXX, squawk 3211"

APR FREQ (me): "3211, XXX"

APR FREQ (atc): "Skydive XXX, radar contract 3 miles south of Crete, altimeter 30.02, advise 1 minute prior to jump"

APR FREQ (me): "3002, advise 1 prior, XXX"

1 minute to jump, I would switch to CTAF, and transmit the following clearly and slowly and then immediately switch back, didn't have time to listen for a response

CTAF (me): "Crete traffic, Skydive XXX, 10,500 above crete 1 minute to jumpers away, 1 minute to jumpers away over crete"

Immediately switch back to Appr freq

APR FREQ (me): "Omaha Approach, Skydive XXX is 1 minute to jumpers away at crete"

APR FREQ (atc): "Skydive, XXX, roger"

APR FREQ (ATC would broadcast this): "Attention all aircraft, skydive operations occurring at crete, 1 minute to jumpers away"

Right about when the jumpers are about to go, I would switch to CTAF again and would transmit 1 more warning but had to switch back to ATC immediately and couldn't wait for a response

CTAF (me) : "Crete traffic, jumpers away at 10,500 over crete. Jumpers away over crete"

Switch back to ATC

APR FREQ (me): "Approach, Skydive XXX is jumpers away over Crete, we're starting our descent"
APR FREQ (atc): "Roger"

At that point I would bring the MP back to the bottom of the green along with the prop, close the cowl flaps, go into a steep bank, stomp the rudder so I can get the door closed, VSI pegged downwards. My eyes are always outside the airplane scanning everywhere in the pattern and trying to keep track of the skydivers so I don't hit them myself. I always count canopies and if I can't find them all I turn away immediately.

APR FREQ (me): "Approach, Skydive XXX request frequency change"
APR FREQ (atc): "Skydive XXX, freq change approved, keep the squawk code, see you in a bit"

Then I would switch frequencies again to CTAF and broadcast the fact that I'm coming down like a brick into the pattern.

A couple of things:

1.) There is no legal requirement that I'm aware of for them to transmit on CTAF although I think it's a REALLY GOOD IDEA. The training they provided me when I started flying jumpers for them years back did not include talking on CTAF what so ever other than takeoff and landing.

2.) I suggested on many occasions that things would be dramatically safer with two radios but spending money isn't something that is typically done unless legally required.

3.) The jump pilot can be incredibly busy and might not be talking. Keep your EYES OPEN around Crete. The moment you get complacent is the moment you run into someone's chute.

4.) I did at one point offer to build a training curriculum for them and teach it but wasn't really taken up on it. I also got really busy around that time and haven't been involved with flying jumpers there in probably two years. Part of this was telling them how important it is to train people to talk on CTAF even if the FAA doesn't require it. It's ridiculous to kick jumpers out at Crete while talking to Omaha Approach who isn't talking to any of the planes in the pattern. To the best of my knowledge the majority of the pilots there do not transmit the jump run or jumpers away on CTAF.

I never asked ATC for permission to change frequency, I just did it, so quickly it wouldn't matter if I were gone for 10 seconds.

5.) I did my best to look for aircraft in the pattern or approaching the pattern but at 10,500 that's incredibly difficult to do because you can't see down at all from the pilots seat. I would lean out of the plane and look down. I aborted jump runs and held divers in the plane more than once when I spotted traffic.

Some of the jumpers would tell me if they spotted traffic and would get my opinion as to if they thought there would be a conflict before they leaped out.

6.) They are a really great group of people there and they do their best to be safe. But you don't know what you don't know and there is always room for improvement.



One tip:

If you see their hangar door open and you don't see their airplane on the ramp it's most likely in the sky with skydivers.

 

[brian]]

I was talking with a jump pilot from that airport near Tulsa, just the other day. He told me that the jumpers can see the airplanes very well, and they have control of the parachutes. They "see and avoid" the airplanes. In describing how much control they have, he gave an example of a double amputee who would lay his crutches in an X on the ground, saying "This is where I will land," and then always land right next to them and walk away.

Good to know. SKIATOOK (2F6) is where I'm talking about - for the rest of you to keep an eye out for. Marked on the VFR sectional with a chute - and they are active over there!!

One time I heard ATC ripping a pilot that was on flight following about not responding when over that airport. Meanwhile, I was out there plowing along and listening - luckily. LATER, I forgot where I was and YEOW! Where's the jump plane!! Oh C**P.. (Nothing happened, but I was scared. So was the CFI I was working with.)

Looks like they have a lot of fun over there, but I don't think I've ever heard them on CTAF - only with Tulsa Approach. But I could be wrong.

I'm with the rest of you: It would be nice to hear the airport name a bunch. I'll assume everything under 12K will be affected, but I really hate it when I hear jumpers away and all I make out is the altitude !! (Happens a lot around here - I would give the airport name, but I seriously have not been able to make it out.)

 

[jesse]

As to someone under canopy avoiding airplanes. Yeah they could try, if they see them, which they doesn't always happen. You can only avoid something so much when you're doing 15 mph and the object that's headed towards you is going ten times faster.

 

[N801BH]

This year was first time for jumpers here and the jump plane used that exact verbage...... I,.... and the rest of us here were TOTALLY comfortable with that operation........

 

[Tristar]

Okay so we don't have this go any further, I was the jump pilot. Geico, I did appologise and still do. Everything Jesse said is correct. We have one radio in the airplane and I try my best to monitor both frequencies. I do exactly as Jesse does and announce on each jump run but it is possible and does happen that I get busy in the cockpit either with departure or instructions from skydivers. I made a call both on the jump before this one and every jump after this flight, just on this particular one, I got busy and didn't make a call before you came on the radio. I was also having a mechanical issue with the door which has an airspeed limitation so I wasn't able to explain myself well over the radio when you called. I did call departure "one minute prior" though. I wish they would announce "skydiving operations in progress over the crete airport" on all local frequencies but they don't. When I landed, I did go and talk to the skydivers and see if it was someone not paying attention. According to them, you were miles away and not seen as a problem. We do jump operations Friday evening through Sunday and it is notamed so. Like I said, I am sorry and it was a good reminder to stay on top of radio calls. I do the best I can, I don't like meat bombs either and the skydivers sure don't want to be one.

 

[Brad Z]

*meat bombs. Feel free to look up "meat missiles."

Back on topic, I don't like jumpers. I never have and I never will. They render the airspace and airport almost completely useless you know first hand on how everything operates. They're just a PITA.

You kids get off my lawn!

Since the FAA considers skydiving an federally protected aeronautical activity, you might as well figure out a way to deal with them. They aren't going away.

Skydiving is the only vibrant section of GA.

Agreed, although skydiving itself technically isn't considered GA, but certainly uses GA aircraft and GA airports.

 

[N801BH]

Okay so we don't have this go any further, I was the jump pilot. Geico, I did appologise and still do. Everything Jesse said is correct. We have one radio in the airplane and I try my best to monitor both frequencies. I do exactly as Jesse does and announce on each jump run but it is possible and does happen that I get busy in the cockpit either with departure or instructions from skydivers. I made a call both on the jump before this one and every jump after this flight, just on this particular one, I got busy and didn't make a call before you came on the radio. I was also having a mechanical issue with the door which has an airspeed limitation so I wasn't able to explain myself well over the radio when you called. I did call departure "one minute prior" though. I wish they would announce "skydiving operations in progress over the crete airport" on all local frequencies but they don't. When I landed, I did go and talk to the skydivers and see if it was someone not paying attention. According to them, you were miles away and not seen as a problem. We do jump operations Friday evening through Sunday and it is notamed so. Like I said, I am sorry and it was a good reminder to stay on top of radio calls. I do the best I can, I don't like meat bombs either and the skydivers sure don't want to be one.

OMG...... They let girls fly in Nebraska.............

 

[flyingron]

AGAIN, if you read and comprehend the NOTAM this should never be a issue.

I can read and compreshend a NOTAM. I even know where to look for the permanent drop zone information (which is not in the NOTAM system NOR on the sectional chart). Most pilots don't, I will concede.

Still a NOTAM doesn't say "Their are a bunch of unsafe idiots inside here who refuse to follow the FARs."

The operation that I'm talking about (and hopefully not yours), breaks the regs regularly. They call ATC, and they are told to advise one minute prior to the jump but what ATC gets is a "jumpers away" call and in fact, even that was not correct because canopies were popping in front of me as he said it (and no I don't believe it was a hop and pop).

I know how it's supposed to work. As I said, I've jumped. I also regularly fly over a drop zone that does things correctly (alas some screwiness at the FAA puts the IAF for the RNAV approach for my field directly over the drop zone). My comments are about another drop zone north of our field that has a very "cavalier" attitude about things.

Second you fly inside a parachute NOTAM without talking to someone about it, your asking for a problem, it ain't that hard to call the DZ up and ask where they give them the cut, where their landing area is, recommended entry etc.

Maybe your drop zone has a phone line that someone answers regularly, but not the ones around here.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Still a NOTAM doesn't say "Their are a bunch of unsafe idiots inside here who refuse to follow the FARs." "jumpers away" call and in fact, even that was not correct because canopies were popping in front of me as he said it (and no I don't believe it was a hop and pop).

Maybe your drop zone has a phone line that someone answers regularly, but not the ones around here.

So hostile. Probably a second pass or a second jump plane and you missed the first one. With wingsuits canopies can be minutes after and miles away from the jumpers away call.

 

[flyingron]

So hostile. Probably a second pass or a second jump plane and you missed the first one. With wingsuits canopies can be minutes after and miles away from the jumpers away call.

Nope, one jump plane, operated by an idiot. No wing suits and nothing involving "miles away" just the inability to make the requested and required calls and crappy radio procedure on the calls he does make and I don't believe he even listens on the CTAF when flying. That's where the hostility comes form. The other jump zones I've encountered (or even jumped with) I've got no problem with. You seem incapable of understanding that everybody isn't as competent as you are.

The closest I've ever come to another dz problem was asking a newly established zone to please taxi their plane fully clear of the taxiway not just clear of the pavement (my wingtips and many other planes are wider than the paved part of the taxiway) while picking up the next load. The DZ operator thanked me for pointing that out to him and invited me to come by anytime.

 

[James331]

I can read and compreshend a NOTAM. I even know where to look for the permanent drop zone information (which is not in the NOTAM system NOR on the sectional chart). Most pilots don't, I will concede.

Still a NOTAM doesn't say "Their are a bunch of unsafe idiots inside here who refuse to follow the FARs."

The operation that I'm talking about (and hopefully not yours), breaks the regs regularly. They call ATC, and they are told to advise one minute prior to the jump but what ATC gets is a "jumpers away" call and in fact, even that was not correct because canopies were popping in front of me as he said it (and no I don't believe it was a hop and pop).

I know how it's supposed to work. As I said, I've jumped. I also regularly fly over a drop zone that does things correctly (alas some screwiness at the FAA puts the IAF for the RNAV approach for my field directly over the drop zone). My comments are about another drop zone north of our field that has a very "cavalier" attitude about things.


Maybe your drop zone has a phone line that someone answers regularly, but not the ones around here.

I don't know how that DZ operates, but at the one I flew at (full time) everyone on the flight line was VERY ontop of their game

If you can use this message board you probably can use google to find a DZ phone number, if you have enough money to afford a PPL you should have sense enough to ask for a pilot or manager instead of asking the front desk girl.

I have yet to bust a FAR, nor did any of my TIs.

We were a C208B maintained to 135 specs, piloted by an ATP, with TIs who had in excess of 3000 jumps each, half also holding a master riggers ticket, one also a pilot, and all holding AFF privileges.

There are some rinky dink DZs out there, just be careful bunching them all together, some, like mine, will make you look like an amateur everyday of the week and twice on Sundays


Again, if you don't have all the info on a parachute NOTAM, or just don't feel comfortable with it, just fly around the NOTAM, parachute notams tend to not be very wide anyways. Now days when I'm flying a cross country, I don't bother getting all the info on DZ NOTAMS, I just circumnavigate them, doesn't add any noticeable time anyway.

 

[wrbix]

Wide variation in practice that I see:
- live close to/ monitor CTAF for entertainment while working around the farm/ fly out of KDCM (Chester SC) where the pilots announce on CTAF "skydiving activity over Chester in ___ minutes! use caution! be alert, do not overfly airport" or similar, feel comfortable flying there.

- today flying into KDED (Deland FL) was advised by ATC on flight following when canceling FF 20nm out to be aware of skydiving activity, which I rogered having reviewed the AFD. On final the chutes began opening. I had announced all my positions outside and in pattern on CTAF. From the meat bomb dropper I heard NADA.

Amazing to me no one gets killed!

 

[Jay Honeck]

This. I fly out of an airport with a very busy jump school/facility. The pilots are meticulous about keeping everyone on CTAF informed. The bigger concern I have is their habit of landing on whichever runway that takes them closer to the jump school.

The jump operation pilots at our airport not only announce to Corpus Approach (ATC) and CTAF, but they also have a gal on the ground with a handheld who ALSO announces once the canopies are open.

They are a paradigm of safety. It's a pleasure to fly around them.

 

[James331]

Wide variation in practice that I see:
- live close to/ monitor CTAF for entertainment while working around the farm/ fly out of KDCM (Chester SC) where the pilots announce on CTAF "skydiving activity over Chester in ___ minutes! use caution! be alert, do not overfly airport" or similar, feel comfortable flying there.

- today flying into KDED (Deland FL) was advised by ATC on flight following when canceling FF 20nm out to be aware of skydiving activity, which I rogered having reviewed the AFD. On final the chutes began opening. I had announced all my positions outside and in pattern on CTAF. From the meat bomb dropper I heard NADA.

Amazing to me no one gets killed!

Deland, FL? That's quite a spot in jumping.

They operate super twotters, skyvans, and a PAC750, and fly damn near 365, they also dont normally hire rookes to fly those machines.

I'm VERY surprised they didn't make a call, with those airframes they can rain down jumpers like no tomorrow, this is a NOTAM I would have flown around.

 

[wrbix]

Deland, FL? That's quite a spot in jumping.
this is a NOTAM I would have flown around.

Yeah, well, easily said; but if one needs to get into KDED, one needs to get into KDED.

 

[flyingron]

There are two kinds of jump operations in this area. Those who pretty much are all the activity on the airport (though they are all public use fields) and those that interoperate with a fairly active airport for all purposes. The one I have an issue with is one of the former, it's unlikely anybody flies in there (very sleepy grass strip, no services) who isn't jumping, but that's still no excuse. It's in a very congested airspace (miles from the SFRA and class B airspace).

Oddly the other places that drop on "their own" fields are much better operated. The one that the IAF for our approach starts over operates quite nicely with others. The one down in NC I am aware of does very nice comms with everybody on the CTAF similarly to what Jay mentions. Arriving there IFR while jump operations were in progress I made an inquiry and the jump operation gave me the precise status of the current jump and where they were descending relative to my position.

I don't have a problem with most skydive operations. As I stated, I've even jumped at a few. There are a small few that are outright dangerous (unfortunately, this one I have to deal with on a regular basis) and a few whose pilots are a bit hotdog and cut people off, but by and large my experience is positive.

 

[Geico266]

Okay so we don't have this go any further, I was the jump pilot. Geico, I did appologise and still do. Everything Jesse said is correct. We have one radio in the airplane and I try my best to monitor both frequencies. I do exactly as Jesse does and announce on each jump run but it is possible and does happen that I get busy in the cockpit either with departure or instructions from skydivers. I made a call both on the jump before this one and every jump after this flight, just on this particular one, I got busy and didn't make a call before you came on the radio. I was also having a mechanical issue with the door which has an airspeed limitation so I wasn't able to explain myself well over the radio when you called. I did call departure "one minute prior" though. I wish they would announce "skydiving operations in progress over the crete airport" on all local frequencies but they don't. When I landed, I did go and talk to the skydivers and see if it was someone not paying attention. According to them, you were miles away and not seen as a problem. We do jump operations Friday evening through Sunday and it is notamed so. Like I said, I am sorry and it was a good reminder to stay on top of radio calls. I do the best I can, I don't like meat bombs either and the skydivers sure don't want to be one.

No worries T, we all make mistakes. Live and learn, fly more.

Glad to hear I didn't scare the "chutes" off the sky divers. They looked bigger and closer to me!

I still think you should have 2 radios so you can monitor both without having one freq stepped on. Just having another one in case the other one poops out is a good idea.