Simulated engine out 180

[Salty]

I will never do it this perfectly again. And I happened to have the camera running.

 

[midwestpa24]

I will never do it this perfectly again. And I happened to have the camera running.

Sure you will, just keep doing them. That is my standard approach in the Citabria, power to idle abeam the numbers and constant turn towards the runway, traffic permitting of course. With practice, you'll learn how to better manage your energy, using airspeed to control your descent path and touchdown point. Also takes a little bit of the sweat out of simulated engine outs, because you have been practicing them!

 

[RoscoeT]

You can do this every time if you slip with the rudder to the floor and manage the approach from there. Cessnas slip like crap but it's still some extra glidepath control. Handy if you have to do this in an emergency and can't afford to come up short.

 

[Salty]

I didn't even have to slip on this one. Timed the flaps going out perfectly and it all just worked out. There was a pretty good crosswind which was a headwind on base, which helped reduce the need for the slip

 

[luvflyin]

I will never do it this perfectly again. And I happened to have the camera running.

Ain't this supposed to be in the new media forum? Are you a CFI, if not, why the right seat? WTF you doin' in a Cessna? And oh yeah, nice approach.

 

[Salty]

Ain't this supposed to be in the new media forum? Are you a CFI, if not, why the right seat? WTF you doin' in a Cessna? And oh yeah, nice approach.

To be honest, at least 80% of the reason for the post was to understand if this is ok or not.

 

[eman1200]

if only they had a name for this maneuver, like "power off 180" or something. prob not as good as "simulated engine out where I turn 180 degrees and land on a specific point on the runway and not before and not very far after"

 

[schmookeeg]

Liked and Subscribed.

...OAT showing only 75 in florida? This is how you spot a deepfake. That gauge should have been fogged over and sweating showing 98F

 

[dbahn]

You can do this every time if you slip with the rudder to the floor and manage the approach from there. Cessnas slip like crap but it's still some extra glidepath control. Handy if you have to do this in an emergency and can't afford to come up short.

In a true emergency I'll go for the slip instead of the flaps every time as well. Aim high until you're 100% sure you will make it to the aiming point, then drop it down with the slip. It's so much easier to vary and so much easier to reverse compared to flaps. You can still add flaps at the last moment.

Besides, the Cub doesn't even have flaps . . .

 

[dtuuri]

To be honest, at least 80% of the reason for the post was to understand if this is ok or not.

You landed 1/3 of the way to your target point. Good, if you got there by adjusting drag after you made the field. Not good if you undershot the aiming point and barely made it.

 

[luvflyin]

To be honest, at least 80% of the reason for the post was to understand if this is ok or not.

It should be. Hopefully they just limit that to the subscribery type Tuberheads. But what if someone subscribes to you anyway even though you didn't ask?


Uh Oh! @schmookeeg done went and did it. You are officially a Tuberhead now.

 

[Tools]

Nicely done. Next phase…. Do that until it’s automatic. Then start backing the emergency out and then the drill becomes “get to ‘high key’ and since it’s automatic from there, you can now concentrate on the other usually ignored parts of the emergency” and really start to increase your chances of surviving this near inevitability.

I, too, frequently do “power off 180s” (with a nod of the chin and tip of the hat to eman) as my normal approach. In jumper flying, it’s the same but I start at 12k’ agl. Navy was the same but power on 180s, starting at our normal pattern altitude 600’.

 

[luvflyin]

You landed 1/3 of the way to your target point. Good, if you got there by adjusting drag after you made the field. Not good if you undershot the aiming point and barely made it.

I forget. What's the Flight Check criteria for how close to the expected touchdown point you have to be?

 

[dtuuri]

I forget. What's the Flight Check criteria for how close to the expected touchdown point you have to be?

This was a simulated emergency landing, not an accuracy landing. My comment is based on aiming for a spot 1/3 of the way down the chosen emergency field.

 

[luvflyin]

if only they had a name for this maneuver, like "power off 180" or something. prob not as good as "simulated engine out where I turn 180 degrees and land on a specific point on the runway and not before and not very far after"

There is. Or was. You have to do it for a Commercial ticket as I recall. I'm pretty sure that was it. Power off 180 approach.

 

[luvflyin]

This was a simulated emergency landing, not an accuracy landing. My comment is based on aiming for a spot 1/3 of the way down the chosen emergency field.

Ok fine. Accuracy landing. What was the criteria?

 

[luvflyin]

Nicely done. Next phase…. Do that until it’s automatic. Then start backing the emergency out and then the drill becomes “get to ‘high key’ and since it’s automatic from there, you can now concentrate on the other usually ignored parts of the emergency” and really start to increase your chances of surviving this near inevitability.

I, too, frequently do “power off 180s” (with a nod of the chin and tip of the hat to eman) as my normal approach. In jumper flying, it’s the same but I start at 12k’ agl. Navy was the same but power on 180s, starting at our normal pattern altitude 600’.

600? When would you start the turn? Abeam the bow? Isn't the ship like doing 40 knots?

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I forget. What's the Flight Check criteria for how close to the expected touchdown point you have to be?

Commercial ACS:

"Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 200 feet beyond or on the specified point with no side drift and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway centerline or landing path, as applicable."

Not sure what Salty was using for his specified point. I usually would not use the runway numbers, but more typically the start of the 2nd stripe.

 

[luvflyin]

Commercial ACS:

"Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 200 feet beyond or on the specified point with no side drift and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway centerline or landing path, as applicable."

Not sure what Salty was using for his specified point. I usually would not use the runway numbers, but more typically the start of the 2nd stripe.

Thx

 

[Rgbeard]

Damn! That was good!

 

[Salty]

Commercial ACS:

"Touch down at a proper pitch attitude, within 200 feet beyond or on the specified point with no side drift and with the airplane’s longitudinal axis aligned with and over the runway centerline or landing path, as applicable."

Not sure what Salty was using for his specified point. I usually would not use the runway numbers, but more typically the start of the 2nd stripe.

I was using the numbers. I wouldn't normally choose the numbers either, but there's a pretty big threshold and not many other markings on this runway.

 

[Tools]

600? When would you start the turn? Abeam the bow? Isn't the ship like doing 40 knots?

IIRC… 25kts was the standard. You would turn abeam where ya wanted to land (you could sight directly through the openings to the hangar bay). Less wind we had a formula, like one sec per knot less, so 20 kts delay turn 5 seconds (rare, but done for area containment, etc). Estimated seconds early if more than 25. 40 kts and plus, you started the turn before you got to the ship… after… you just couldn’t bring yourself to do that, were painfully long in the groove and dutifully yelled at and humiliated a couple times.

 

[Hang 4]

Did you turn in front of the (Cirrus, Cessna Twin, Centurion) on straight in final?

 

[exncsurfer]

I will never do it this perfectly again. And I happened to have the camera running.

Nice, those wide angle cameras make it impossible to judge distances when you watch these back. Based on the video, I would have guessed there is no way you'll make it, haha.

 

[brcase]

Nicely done. With the Displaced threshold the number make a good aim point.

As mentioned the emergency 180 is a different maneuver than the Power off 180.
Even though an emergency 180 can be a identical to a power off 180.
The difference is the emergency 180 only requires you safety make the runway 100% of the time.
The Power off 180 teaches you a bunch of tricks to you can use for an emergency 180, in order to land with a designated 200ft area. You are going to need to learn how to cut it close, which you don’t want to do on an emergency 180.

Tricks/techniques…
Extend or shorten the downwind as needed.
Evaluate the wind component on Base leg (which way and how much are you drifting)
Dog leg (chicken leg?) toward or away from the runway as needed.
Wait on flaps until you know you can make the touch down point.
Slip as if needed.
If low and have a controllable pitch propeller, pull to course pitch (Low RPM) to improve glide angle.
If low, don’t flaps until in ground effect. Big flap Cessna’s in particular will float an impressive distance if you are extendI got the flaps in ground effect.
Learn the range of flat to full stall landings that are acceptable and care Vary touch down point be a couple hundred feet.
If high, and have the flaps all the way out, slip if acceptable or with some headwind slow down below best glide speed to steeping the glide angle until a couple hundred feet above the runway, then pitch down to regain enough flying speed to flair and land.
Reverse is true if low with a headwind, speed up about 1/2 the wind speed to improve your glide angle.
I am sure I have missed a few other tricks.

Comment: you only need Best Glide speed when you need to go maximum distance. Otherwise I recommend you fly you normal approach speed and make your emergency approach as normal as possible.

On Flight Reviews I encourage pilots to practice power off 180 landings at the end of their cross country flights when they are able to. As mentioned you never know when you might need to do one for real. Practicing one every few flights will make you a lot more proficient and make the outcome of your real emergency a lot more predictable and less stressfull.

Brian
CFIG/ASEL

 

[eman1200]

Nicely done. With the Displaced threshold the number make a good aim point.

As mentioned the emergency 180 is a different maneuver than the Power off 180.
Even though an emergency 180 can be a identical to a power off 180.
The difference is the emergency 180 only requires you safety make the runway 100% of the time....

except the video description states "Pull power in the pattern and land on the runway at that same point you removed power." which is a power off 180, not an emergency 180 which, quite honestly, I've never even heard of.