Sigh. Police investigate suicide in Spotsylvania plane crash

Bill, I have to ask about the sigh? Because the pilot might have committed suicide by airplane? Or because they think the crash could have been intentional?
 
steingar said:
Bill, I have to ask about the sigh? Because the pilot might have committed suicide by airplane? Or because they think the crash could have been intentional?
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Exactly my thought, too. The timing of this post is especially strange for me, since I have a pilot acquaintance whom I've recently become very worried about. I'm concerned that this person no longer cares whether they live or die, and they have been making what I consider some especially poor fly/no-fly decisions. Actively suicidal? Probably not. But no longer caring about life and safety is not a good thing.
 
Sad story, but what rally bothers me is the part that says the police were called to the airport to investigate someone contemplating suicide prior to the crash, and the crash only occurred minutes after he took off.

So Edwin Hassell goes to the FBO, tells someone at the airport he wants to commit suicide, and the person he tells calls the police and does not stop him from renting the plane. Hmmm?
 
Sigh for a number of reasons, starting with the media headlines (which only 2 days ago trumpeted about another plane crash fairly close to this one), because of the light it puts GA in, and of what the "other shoe" might be.
 
wsuffa said:
Sigh for a number of reasons, starting with the media headlines (which only 2 days ago trumpeted about another plane crash fairly close to this one), because of the light it puts GA in, and of what the "other shoe" might be.
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Sadly, I think the media will never put GA in a good light, because they like to tap into that fear of flying that so many people have. If only they'd do a better job of covering the crashes and resulting deaths and injuries that occur because certain people never should have been allowed the privilege to drive. Oh, but wait, people aren't that afraid of driving because they think they're in control. Yeah, right.
 
Lots of single vehicle crashes are suicides or murder suicides. Not a big deal, just unfortunate. Remember the internet makes someone's local news story referring something you care about seem like big news, it isn't. Some baby was just born, speculation is the kid will grow up poison a few people to get the throne then sail armies to america to reclaim it in the name of the empire. Or not, no one cares.
 
wsuffa said:
Sigh for a number of reasons, starting with the media headlines (which only 2 days ago trumpeted about another plane crash fairly close to this one), because of the light it puts GA in, and of what the "other shoe" might be.
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Yeah, I know. If the guy did kack himself he did all make us look that much worse. At least he didn't kack himself by crashing into a school of little kiddies. Someone does that and it could put the kibosh on the whole thing. Cleveland Air Races were cancelled because one of the racers crashed into a house killing a pregnant woman.
 
steingar said:
Yeah, I know. If the guy did kack himself he did all make us look that much worse. At least he didn't kack himself by crashing into a school of little kiddies. Someone does that and it could put the kibosh on the whole thing. Cleveland Air Races were cancelled because one of the racers crashed into a house killing a pregnant woman.
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I am also glad he didn't go to Virginia Tech with some weapons and take out a bunch of people along with his suicide.
 
The main risk to the rest of us is if it's discovered he's been on ssri's, or otherwise abusing something with a current medical. Otherwise, it's just a sad story.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
The main risk to the rest of us is if it's discovered he's been on ssri's, or otherwise abusing something with a current medical. Otherwise, it's just a sad story.
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Actually, I'm not at all worried about that. John Q Public doesn't know or care about airman medicals, and those fine upstanding citizens at the FAA won't admit they were wrong in the first place.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
The main risk to the rest of us is if it's discovered he's been on ssri's, or otherwise abusing something with a current medical. Otherwise, it's just a sad story.
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There have been at least 2 crashes in my home County where SSRIs were found in the bloodstream of the pilot. I am not sure what you mean by "risk" to the rest of us?
 
Interesting that you bring this up. Just today a friend and I were talking about heading down to the beach in my airplane for the day. She said she'd rather not fly (she's flown with me years ago) and cited this accident. Without knowing the details, I suggested that the pilot him/her-self is generally the cause of the vast majority of accidents. Sounds like I may have been more right than I thought.
 
Warrior said:
There have been at least 2 crashes in my home County where SSRIs were found in the bloodstream of the pilot. I am not sure what you mean by "risk" to the rest of us?
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The perception being that "OMG, the sky is full of little airplanes piloted by pilots taking anti-depressants who may be suicidal! We must do something to protect the children." The result being more stringent medicals, or a rollback of progress being made by Bruce and/ or other ame's to get pilots flying on si's.
 
Chip Sylverne said:
The perception being that "OMG, the sky is full of little airplanes piloted by pilots taking anti-depressants who may be suicidal! We must do something to protect the children." The result being more stringent medicals, or a rollback of progress being made by Bruce and/ or other ame's to get pilots flying on si's.
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Wouldn't the untreated mentally ill be a bigger threat than the treated?
 
Brad Z said:
Interesting that you bring this up. Just today a friend and I were talking about heading down to the beach in my airplane for the day. She said she'd rather not fly (she's flown with me years ago) and cited this accident. Without knowing the details, I suggested that the pilot him/her-self is generally the cause of the vast majority of accidents. Sounds like I may have been more right than I thought.
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It's not so unlikely of a coincidence... many times I've read some accident report and thought "Geez, this pilot could not have done a better job of killing himself if he'd been trying..." :rolleyes2:
 
jbarrass said:
Wouldn't the untreated mentally ill be a bigger threat than the treated?
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One would think. But isn't it just a recent hard fought change that allowed pilots being treated with certain ssri's for mental illness/depression into the cockpit? So that would indicate that until recently, mental illness, treated or not, was disqualifying. Who's to say some "do gooder" group couldn't make an issue of claiming that modifying that stance was a mistake?

That which is given with one hand can be taken with the other, if politics requires. At least that is what I perceive as the risk.
 
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10 percent of all light aircraft fatal crashes with a solo pilot are suicides, is a statistic I read a long time ago, especially if the pilot had been diagnosed with cancer because in the old days few cancers could be treated and it was a death sentence anyway. You understand that's an outdated statistic from the 1950s. I wonder what it is today.
 
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Eagle I said:
Exactly my thought, too. The timing of this post is especially strange for me, since I have a pilot acquaintance whom I've recently become very worried about. I'm concerned that this person no longer cares whether they live or die, and they have been making what I consider some especially poor fly/no-fly decisions. Actively suicidal? Probably not. But no longer caring about life and safety is not a good thing.
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I'm confused. "this person no longer cares whether they live or die, and they have been making - - - -." Who is or are "they?" Is the pilot thinking "Actively suicidal" or is he thinking about taking several with him(or her)?

HR
 
Don't be confused. It's common for English speakers to use the pronoun "they", which is plural but of indefinite gender, in place of the non-existent genderless singular pronoun. "He" is technically the correct singular pronoun for indeterminate gender, but lots of folks choose to use "they" anyway.

Almost everybody knows these grammar technicalities, and chooses to ignore them, and life goes on.
 
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They'll just add a mandatory form to fill out before flying:

A. I certify that I do not intend to commit suicide on this flight

B. I certify that I am not a terrorist and do not intend to use this aircraft to commit bodily injury or property damage

c. I certify that I am of sound mind and do not fill this form out with any weakness of mind or body and have not consumed alcohol or prohibited drugs prior to this flight and have waited at five dosing periods since taking any other drugs . . .

That'll do it - right? The solution is paperwork! That'll stop 'em!
 
comanchepilot said:
They'll just add a mandatory form to fill out before flying:

A. I certify that I do not intend to commit suicide on this flight

B. I certify that I am not a terrorist and do not intend to use this aircraft to commit bodily injury or property damage

c. I certify that I am of sound mind and do not fill this form out with any weakness of mind or body and have not consumed alcohol or prohibited drugs prior to this flight and have waited at five dosing periods since taking any other drugs . . .

That'll do it - right? The solution is paperwork! That'll stop 'em!
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You laugh. For quite a few years I had to sign an affidavit that I was not a terrorist in order to register my aircraft with the state.
 
Just tagging on here, but Chip's comment regarding SSRI's make sense as some of those anti-depressive medications do induce some people to commit suicide. Prozac has been known to be the culprit in many cases, one of which hit very close to home for me. Not knowing for certain that person was on them I can only say it is a possibility. I'm sure Dr. Bruce can expand on that.

My only question is if that person was in such a condition that people were concerned why did they let him fly. It would be akin to giving him his car keys just after he blew a /43 on the breathalyzer.

Disclaimer: Based on the available information the above is somewhat speculative.
 
Reminded me of a friend years ago who was a skydiver. One day it seems he decided to not open his chute... :sad:
 
Oh, no! I think I knew this pilot.

I gave Edwin his first airplane ride about 4 years ago. He showed up at the airport on his bicycle, and was hanging around. I offered to take him up and show him his house. He came over a few other times on a motorcycle, and we would always talk aviation. He was a very enthusiastic about flying. He later joined a local flying club, and called me at various stages along in his training. When he got his license, we planned on going flying together, but it never worked out.

He must have moved to northern Virginia. We haven't spoken in a couple of years. I just called his cell phone, and it went right to voicemail.

Very sad.
 
Erice said:
Oh, no! I think I knew this pilot.

I gave Edwin his first airplane ride about 4 years ago. He showed up at the airport on his bicycle, and was hanging around. I offered to take him up and show him his house. He came over a few other times on a motorcycle, and we would always talk aviation. He was a very enthusiastic about flying. He later joined a local flying club, and called me at various stages along in his training. When he got his license, we planned on going flying together, but it never worked out.

He must have moved to northern Virginia. We haven't spoken in a couple of years. I just called his cell phone, and it went right to voicemail.

Very sad.
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Sad, indeed.
 
It's amazing how close to home almost every crash is to PoA. It's always a reminder of how small our community actually is.

Erice, condolences. :(
 
Erice said:
Oh, no! I think I knew this pilot.

I gave Edwin his first airplane ride about 4 years ago. He showed up at the airport on his bicycle, and was hanging around. I offered to take him up and show him his house. He came over a few other times on a motorcycle, and we would always talk aviation. He was a very enthusiastic about flying. He later joined a local flying club, and called me at various stages along in his training. When he got his license, we planned on going flying together, but it never worked out.

He must have moved to northern Virginia. We haven't spoken in a couple of years. I just called his cell phone, and it went right to voicemail.

Very sad.
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I'm very sorry.

He lived in Fredericksburg, right by the airport.
 
Hello,

This is Edwin's fiance. Some of you guys are really cruel to be saying the things you are saying. If you knew him maybe you would know that he was a better pilot than all of you. Don't you ever think about someone elses feelings like the people who have to read this stuff. I hope none of your family members pass away and you have to read things that tarnish their names. So to clear the record. People who commit suicide if that is in fact what he did are brokenhearted individuals. God has a soft spot for people who are broken hearted. It pains me to read things like this because he was the nicest human being alive and a wonderful pilot. He had his pilot license for two years and was an amazing pilot just ask all the flight instructors he flew with. I really hope that this has helped you to understand that just because people make mistakes doesn't mean that they are bad people because he is not, he was a wonderful fiance, man, hard-worker and excellent pilot. People need to let Eddie rest in peace and shut their mouths because the last time I checked we are all sinners and will you be the first one to throw stones ?
 
Ms. fiancé:

First of all, please accept our condolences; I cannot imagine the pain you are experiencing now. I pray for peace and gentle healing for you and all whose lives have been touched by this occurrence.

---

No one has challenged your fiancée's piloting skills or the quality of his character. A the same time, however, we are all mindful that, each time we fly, something bad could happen to us, and we are always striving to understand when incidents occur some can learn how to make it less likely to affect us, other pilots, the people in their lives and (of course) to otherwise-uninvolved public at large.

If, in discussing that which has happened, we can perhaps open eyes a bit to the facts, it may save a life or two, and that would be a good thing, wouldn't it?

Lastly, please know that, while it may not be fair, the simple fact is, most times a plane crashes, the media feed on it, playing it up for ratings and sales without regard for the truthfulness or balance of the story, and when that happens, it creates new threats of regulatory action to restrict personal freedoms. It is a painful sign of the times.

Again, please accept my condolences at this time of loss.
 
I am so so sorry for your loss. I will pray with you for your loved one and believe in this...Our Lord knows what was going on with this person and our Lord is with them now.
I believe this.......You will see them again when you go back home... We all are just visitors here on this blue plant and someday we all go back home..I believe in this. I have seen to much that can not be explained, there is something else after this life.

Tony
 
Unregistered said:
Hello,

This is Edwin's fiance. Some of you guys are really cruel to be sayi for your lossfor your lossg the things you are saying. If you knew him maybe you would know that he was a better pilot than all of you. Don't you ever think about someone elses feelings like the people who have to read this stuff. I hope none of your family members pass away and you have to read things that tarnish their names. So to clear the record. People who commit suicide if that is in fact what he did are brokenhearted individuals. God has a soft spot for people who are broken hearted. It pains me to read things like this because he was the nicest human being alive and a wonderful pilot. He had his pilot license for two years and was an amazing pilot just ask all the flight instructors he flew with. I really hope that this has helped you to understand that just because people make mistakes doesn't mean that they are bad people because he is not, he was a wonderful fiance, man, hard-worker and excellent pilot. People need to let Eddie rest in peace and shut their mouths because the last time I checked we are all sinners and will you be the first one to throw stones ?
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I suggest you contact the NTSB personal investigating this death and provide any in site you may have into probable cause. You as his fiance may have seen indications to prove or disprove the suicide theory.

I've read all of then posts and can find none that warrant such a defensive statement. While I am sorry for your loss (if you are who you say you are) as pilots it is our nature to examine all accidents and learn from them. Eye witness reports suggest a deliberate crash after take off after talking about suicide. That is disturbing to all of us, on many levels.

I hope you find peace and the answers you are looking for, but coming here to defend your fiance is not going to be pleasant. We call them like we see them. Again, sorry for your loss.
 
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As to whether the poster is truly his fiance, I do not know. If the poster is my sincere condolences. However, I reread all the posts here, and unless I am missing something I do not really see anything that warrents your criticism of the thread. No post I see says anything bad about your fiance, or criticizes his skills. Some comments may seem out of line in their concern of how things could have been worse. Many of the comments seem to wonder whether or not something could have been done to prevent this. Most suicides do not occur in a vacuum, nor suddenly. Typically, many warning signs are there before, and for various reasons no one acts upon them, to prevent the suicide. Guilty feelings abound afterwards by the survivors and true victims. I wonder if some of your tirade against us is because of misplaced guilt. If so talking to someone may help.

The reality of the situation is we all have sympathy for you, and the rest of the people that have been personally affected by this loss.
 
Talk is talk...

Sounds like he was flying like a nut... not all nuts are suicidal. I'm not convinced he didn't spin/stall this bird. The student pilot witness said he buzzed the ground real low/fast and then climbed at a high-rate... an induced spin would be very easy to come by if you aren't prepared.

Perception and Intent are two different things...while he might have given the perception of suicide his intent might have not been for it to happen... this could have still be an accident. It DOES sound safe to say that the witnesses on the ground should not have let this guy take the keys.

Either way, let the poor guy rest in peace.
 
There is a part of me that's trying to silence the troll alarm going off in my head after reading the missive from the alleged fiancé above, but out of an abundance of caution I offer this:

Stay off the Internet and avoid reading articles of his death- especially readers comments or web forums discussing the incident. Understand that he was a very special to you and many others; but to strangers he's just another person who did something seemingly unwise and self destructive. You cannot expect people to not discuss something like this; it's part of how the world works.

I'm very sorry for your loss. You clearly need time and space to grieve. Talk to a friend, a clergyman, or a counselor if you need to talk.

Lashing out to the pilot community will not bring Edwin back.
 
Brad Z said:
There is a part of me that's trying to silence the troll alarm going off in my head after reading the missive from the alleged fiancé above, but out of an abundance of caution I offer this:

Stay off the Internet and avoid reading articles of his death- especially readers comments or web forums discussing the incident. Understand that he was a very special to you and many others; but to strangers he's just another person who did something seemingly unwise and self destructive. You cannot expect people to not discuss something like this; it's part of how the world works.

I'm very sorry for your loss. You clearly need time and space to grieve. Talk to a friend, a clergyman, or a counselor if you need to talk.

Lashing out to the pilot community will not bring Edwin back.
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I am sorry I didn't know that it was your business to discuss how people die. Ever heard of privacy, you guys are just as bad as the Media. I feel sorry for this girl and her family. I never knew you guys never made mistakes because I have been in many planes were pilots have made numerous mistakes including drinking and medications on airliners mind you. Let the man rest in peace and stop talking about a horrible thing that happened. Its called RESPECT.
 
Unregistered said:
I am sorry I didn't know that it was your business to discuss how people die. Ever heard of privacy, you guys are just as bad as the Media. I feel sorry for this girl and her family. I never knew you guys never made mistakes because I have been in many planes were pilots have made numerous mistakes including drinking and medications on airliners mind you. Let the man rest in peace and stop talking about a horrible thing that happened. Its called RESPECT.
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We all make mistakes to be certain. However, we do try to learn from others what mistakes to particularly avoid. Unfortunately, these others are often deceased, as aviation is particularly unforgiving.

Anyone who thinks that an aviation accident is a private matter is obviously not paying much attention.
 
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