Shower / Bathe during a storm?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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I was bathing my daughter tonight and the lightning was extraordinary.
I remember what I think was an old wives tale about not bathing during a thunderstorm.

Is that nonsense?

She is in a tub of water with metal fixtures connected to metal pipes.

Seems logical but I also don't recall anyone in recent years perpetuating that safety tip. I would think if it was real, I would hear people echo that on the news.

"During a tornado, don't go under an over pass"
"Don't drive your car into high water"
"And for God's sake don't take a bath!!"
 
I have heard that same warning for 59 years......

And.....I can NOT recall ever hearing about anyone getting electrocuted while in a shower or tub...:no:
 
I think it has been shown that lightning can enter a house from many routes and get you whether you are on a phone or have an electrical connection to the plumbing etc....or whether you just happen to be near a window. Rare but there are some seemingly substantiated stories available. I find it easy enough to avoid that activity for the 30 mins that most storms last so it is not an issue.

NOAA:
http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/indoors.shtml

CDC:
http://emergency.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/safetytips.asp


http://www.snopes.com/science/lightningbath.asp

Dr. Mary Ann Cooper, who runs the Lightning Injury Research Program at the University of Illinois at Chicago
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/health/15real.html?_r=0

RD quotes the NWS
http://www.rd.com/home/is-it-dangerous-to-shower-during-a-thunderstorm/
 
Considering the alternative is holding an electronic device bathing during storms is probably no more dangerous then what you'd do while waiting to bath.
 
How is the Lightning going to hit you and seek ground through you? One the Lightning makes a circuit between the cloud and the ground, how will you become a path for it?
 
Henning said:
How is the Lightning going to hit you and seek ground through you? One the Lightning makes a circuit between the cloud and the ground, how will you become a path for it?
Click to expand...

I don't know.

My thought was from the faucet to the tub of water down to the drain.
That is based only on my knowledge of Tom and Jerry cartoons though.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't know.

My thought was from the faucet to the tub of water down to the drain.
That is based only on my knowledge of Tom and Jerry cartoons though.
Click to expand...

Fresh water is non-conductive...
 
Not much help on the bath thing.

Been installing so many antennas (read: lightning rods) for so many years and working to keep those isolated so they discharge outdoors (earth grounded, buried cable, copper entrance panel, polyphasors, etc) that I know they're acting as the halo system for the house.

But think of it this way. There's a lot "juicier" targets for something looking to go to ground (and the return strike after the leader often pops out somewhere else in that "circuit") than an air gap above your head, a roof, and what not. Most houses don't have a metal pipe system even on the drain side of things anymore that can reach earth ground. (Long ago a trick for RF grounding was to bond to the drain pipes. Nowadays there's not contiguous metal from the under sink or basement pipes to outside ground. Plus it never was a good RF ground anyway.)

Transients from thundersnow blew two fuses on our mountaintop radio gear our ham radio club maintains last week and someone hiked in three feet of snow in snowshoes to replace them on Saturday. We've seen evidence of weld spots on that tower for decades. It gets hit regularly. I wouldn't want to be holding on to the metal rack cabinets during a storm but generally lightning is going to hit the stuff outside. It's a better path to ground than anything inside the structure.

At my last home, we took a direct strike on an antenna hooked to a radio in the basement. It returned through the safety ground burning out the wiring in the basement in that branch circuit and traveled all the way back to the detached garage (guess we bonded that correctly and used a large enough gauge wire) where it jumped from an outlet to the tiny wiring of the garage door opener button and that gave it a direction to follow to return straight up from there, blowing a 4" hole in the garage roof and throwing four shingles in the lawn. I kicked myself for not putting an entrance ground and polyphaser on that coax. But insurance fixed it all. All but the toasted HDMI port on the TV.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Then why am I required to have the GFCI plugs in rooms w/ faucets?
Click to expand...

Good question. Maybe because electrical code requires it. Far be it from me to suggest that code may be a bit overboard.

Consider the fact that I can't replace/upgrade my panel unless I run a ground wire to the copper water service line and connect it within six feet of the service line entrance to the house and one might just get a clue about the electric code. Then again, maybe not. Electric code is just political bull**** at this point, they've long forgotten that V=IR even for AC.
 
Aren't water pipes a common household grounding connection? Seems logical that if the ground got struck nearby, then it would enter the house via a grounding rod, along the pipes, and into the tub with you in it. Just spitballin' here... :dunno:
 
https://what-if.xkcd.com/16/

lightning_shower.png

lightning_boat.png

lightning_graphite.png
 
Clark1961 said:
Fresh water is non-conductive...
Click to expand...
Distilled water is non-conductive. Once things like minerals start finding their way into the water. it becomes conductive.

But I suspect that the undergound water pipes are going to be well grounded.
 
And minerals will find their way into pure water quickly, as pure water is very corrosive.

One thing to consider is whether your tub is the old porcelain coated cast iron or steel tub or a modern fibreglass tub. If the latter, just keep your toes away from the drain (which on a modern house is more likely connected to a PVC vs cast iron drain pipe as well.)
 
JOhnH said:
Distilled water is non-conductive. Once things like minerals start finding their way into the water. it becomes conductive.

But I suspect that the undergound water pipes are going to be well grounded.
Click to expand...

Yup, that CPVC that is being used for sanitary piping these days sure is a good conductor. :-/
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I was bathing my daughter tonight and the lightning was extraordinary.
I remember what I think was an old wives tale about not bathing during a thunderstorm.

Is that nonsense?

She is in a tub of water with metal fixtures connected to metal pipes.

Seems logical but I also don't recall anyone in recent years perpetuating that safety tip. I would think if it was real, I would hear people echo that on the news.

"During a tornado, don't go under an over pass"
"Don't drive your car into high water"
"And for God's sake don't take a bath!!"
Click to expand...

Ever **** on an electric fence? :eek:
 
JOhnH said:
Are they using CPVC for the feed lines these days?
Click to expand...

naw, they're using PEX which is equally non-conductive - sorta neat plumbing though since folks are going to home runs for each tap
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Aren't water pipes a common household grounding connection? Seems logical that if the ground got struck nearby, then it would enter the house via a grounding rod, along the pipes, and into the tub with you in it. Just spitballin' here... :dunno:
Click to expand...

Some are, but they shouldn't be, for a different reason - corrosion.

JOhnH said:
Are they using CPVC for the feed lines these days?
Click to expand...

HDPE is used in lieu of copper services and sometimes interior plumbing. CPVC is generally not used for pressure pipe, at least for residential applications.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I don't know.

My thought was from the faucet to the tub of water down to the drain.
That is based only on my knowledge of Tom and Jerry cartoons though.
Click to expand...

The electricity will follow the path of least resistance between negative and positive. The fact that the body is part of the ground plane and the plumbing much more conductive safes the body two ways. Birds don't get electrocuted sitting on a high tension line, do they? A body in the bath has even greater protection.
 
Birds don't get electrocuted because they are exposed to a very small current. There's a small potential between their feet, and current flows on the parallel path through the bird in proportion to the relationship between the resistance in the wire and the resistance in the bird. With respect to the bird and the wire, that proportion is very small. With respect to your body and the water in the tub, or the wet tile, or the air, maybe not so much of a difference. Disclaimer: I am not an EE, but I have been shocked a lot of times. (But I'm feeling much better now.....)
 
Lindberg said:
Birds don't get electrocuted because they are exposed to a very small current. There's a small potential between their feet, and current flows on the parallel path through the bird in proportion to the relationship between the resistance in the wire and the resistance in the bird. With respect to the bird and the wire, that proportion is very small. With respect to your body and the water in the tub, or the wet tile, or the air, maybe not so much of a difference. Disclaimer: I am not an EE, but I have been shocked a lot of times. (But I'm feeling much better now.....)
Click to expand...

I too have been shocked many times as well. I have showered and bathed many times in the midst of severe thunderstorms, never once has it proved even a tingle.
 
Clark1961 said:
Fresh water is non-conductive...
Click to expand...

Once a person gets in the bathwater, salt from dried perspiration would dissolve in the water, raising the conductivity.
 
Palmpilot said:
Once a person gets in the bathwater, salt from dried perspiration would dissolve in the water, raising the conductivity.
Click to expand...

Although the background TDS in the water is already going to much higher than that added by body sweat.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Then why am I required to have the GFCI plugs in rooms w/ faucets?
Click to expand...

It doesn't take much to make it so. A wet concrete floor is the classic example. A little of electrolyte dissolved in the water greatly increases conductivity.

Having a faucet in the room is not the NEC standard for GFCI. Being within six feet of the sink, on a kitchen countertop, bathrooms, unfinished basements, crawlspaces, garages, and outdoors.
 
Lindberg said:
Birds don't get electrocuted because they are exposed to a very small current. There's a small potential between their feet, and current flows on the parallel path through the bird in proportion to the relationship between the resistance in the wire and the resistance in the bird. )
Click to expand...

In fact, they repair high tension lines live the same way. They drop the guy on the wire after making sure he is at the same potential with the wire he's working on. He bonds himself and stays that way until they pluck him off.
 
Sac Arrow said:
HDPE is used in lieu of copper services and sometimes interior plumbing. CPVC is generally not used for pressure pipe, at least for residential applications.
Click to expand...

My brand new townhouse is full of CPVC for the domestic water supply. It's certainly far from uncommon. PEX is definitely displacing it however.
 
flyingron said:
My brand new townhouse is full of CPVC for the domestic water supply. It's certainly far from uncommon. PEX is definitely displacing it however.
Click to expand...

Interesting. We don't see it around here. PEX is not that common locally either but it is used.
 
flyingron said:
In fact, they repair high tension lines live the same way. They drop the guy on the wire after making sure he is at the same potential with the wire he's working on. He bonds himself and stays that way until they pluck him off.
Click to expand...

The guys I met wore a metal mesh suit, interesting rig that shunts the electricity around them.
 
Henning said:
The guys I met wore a metal mesh suit, interesting rig that shunts the electricity around them.
Click to expand...

Agreed....

An old friend worked for FP&L and did the high tension stuff 200k and up.. His mesh suit looks just like the shark suits you sometimes see..... They lowered him down by heli, he clamped onto the wire..
 
Last edited:
N801BH said:
Agreed....

An old friend worked for FP&L and did the high tension stuff 200k and up.. His mesh suit likes just like the shark suits you sometimes see..... They lowered him down by heli, he clamped onto the wire..
Click to expand...

The shark mail suits is exactly what I thought of, but it was a lot less dense and lighter. IIRC though, the same company makes both.
 
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