Show Off Your Inner Wuss

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

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Kimberly
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .

Call me "scared" or "unsure" or even a "wuss" but I do not have an aviation background and so I have been staying on the cautious side.

A wise man once said (and you know who you are):

"Knowing and being comfortable with the edges of the envelope don't make you a daredevil, they make you educated, confident, competent, and a hell of a lot safer when the sh*t hits the fan."

So in defense of my wussiness, I ask you this: can you name a time you were overly conservative in your decision making, regarding something aviation related, only to later find out if you had NOT MADE that decision there would have been consequences?


This is sort of the opposite of my more recent "share things that were dumb where you lived to tell the tale and learned from it" thread.....
 
By definition, that wouldn't be an overly conservative decision.
 
I inquired about someone's weight for W&B purposes.
 
EdFred said:
I inquired about someone's weight for W&B purposes.
Click to expand...

Yeah that was really dumb. Though this is supposed to be the "if you didn't do this there would have been consequences thread"

and not the

"dumbest things you have ever done" thread.
 
Oh, I'm sure there's still consequences ahead.
 
You have no idea. There is no turning back now, you'd better go get your airship ratings!!!!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .

"Knowing and being comfortable with the edges of the envelope don't make you a daredevil, they make you educated, confident, competent, and a hell of a lot safer when the sh*t hits the fan."
Click to expand...

Knowing where the limits of your aircraft are and how to get maximum performance out of the aircraft is NOT in conflict with conservative decision making.

One is about knowing how to get every bit of performance out of the aircraft.
The other is about not getting into a position where you need to do so.
As they say, superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid situations requiring the use of their superior skills.

I use the rule of the most conservative response. As we go about the business of flying, most decisions and questions are handled by our subconscious mind.
If a question manages to fight its way to the front of your brain and you are consciously thinking about it, then act on it.
The rule states that if you are having to ask yourself "do I have enough fuel to get there?", then the answer is no, stop and get more.
If you are thinking "are those clouds too low ?", then the answer is yes.
Should I wait got this plane to land before I take off? Yes.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 
I made a couple get a motel room because I refused to fly back home that night. The FSS was saying icing in the route that I was to take, so I refused to fly. We went home the next morning with now problems.
 
PilotAlan said:
Knowing where the limits of your aircraft are and how to get maximum performance out of the aircraft is NOT in conflict with conservative decision making.

One is about knowing how to get every bit of performance out of the aircraft.
The other is about not getting into a position where you need to do so.
As they say, superior pilots use their superior judgement to avoid situations requiring the use of their superior skills.

I use the rule of the most conservative response. As we go about the business of flying, most decisions and questions are handled by our subconscious mind.
If a question manages to fight its way to the front of your brain and you are consciously thinking about it, then act on it.
The rule states that if you are having to ask yourself "do I have enough fuel to get there?", then the answer is no, stop and get more.
If you are thinking "are those clouds too low ?", then the answer is yes.
Should I wait got this plane to land before I take off? Yes.


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I do that and can see my instructor's impatience (sometimes). But if the plane is nearing the airport and I am unsure how soon they will land, I let them land. Not when they are on downwind or anything. Usually base / final depending on what kind of plane. Waiting for five planes to land, however, on my first solo, was probably just my nerves.
 
I'm usually conservative with crosswinds. Marshfield spends many days with a significant crosswind. They are also prone to morning fog during the spring months. It makes for a quandary on my part especially when I'm not motivated.
One day, I was to fly out to Nantucket with a friend. Marshfield had a nice thick fog in the morning and the area had a significant crosswind predicted for the afternoon. So I bagged the flight.
About an hour later, the fog cleared. Throughout the day, the wind was never more than 12-15.
Next week, same conditions predicted. Same possibilities. Breakfast was a little late but served on the island.
 
You will find that your edges will change also with more experience. You will be more able to judge - for example how long will it take before that plane is landing and know if you can go ahead and depart -
Err-ing (sp?) on the conservative side is not err-ing in aviation. It's staying safe. Never let someone make you feel a coward or inadequate and succumb to pressure to perform at their "standard". Being pressured into an action/decision can turn out to be a bad thing.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .
Click to expand...
I always make conservative choices when it comes to flying. Nothing wrong with that, let people think you are a wuss. Better a living wuss than a dead risk taker.
 
11/11/2006 I was a freshly minted PPL (7/17/06) and taking a first trip (overnighter) to Williamsburg Jamestown. My Bride and i had a blast visiting with friends. We had left Wilmington delaware on Friday and had an uneventful flight south, all of 1.5 hours.

Saturday I made the call to bug out of town saturday because i did not like the wx moving north east from texas thats was going to blanket KJGG in for our sunday departure. Little did we know at the time that the couple we chatted with at Charly's and joked about rental cars that friday would experience the worst day by leaving sunday.

NTSB Report NYC07LA027

On November 12, 2006, at 1125 eastern standard time, a Piper PA-32R-300, Nxxxxx, was destroyed when it impacted trees shortly after takeoff from Williamsburg-Jamestown Airport (JGG), Williamsburg, Virginia. The certificated private pilot was seriously injured, and the passenger was fatally injured. Instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) prevailed, and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed for the personal flight, destined for Albert Whitted Airport (SPG), St. Petersburg, Florida. The flight was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.

METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION

The weather conditions reported at JGG, at 1120, included winds from 350 degrees true at 16 knots, gusting to 24 knots, visibility 5 statute miles, scattered clouds at 900 feet, a broken ceiling at 1,400 feet, an overcast ceiling at 2,100 feet, temperature 52 degrees Fahrenheit, dewpoint 52 degrees Fahrenheit, and an altimeter setting of 29.72 inches of mercury.

The weather reported at Newport News/Williamsburg International Airport, (PHF), Newport News, Virginia, about 12 nautical miles southeast, included winds from 330 degrees, at 16 knots, gusting to 23 knots, visibility 1 3/4 statute miles in heavy rain, overcast clouds at 600 feet, and an altimeter setting of 29.68 inches of mercury.

According to radar reflectivity images generated by the National Weather Service WSR-88D weather radar located in Wakefield, Virginia, at 1147, level 3 convective weather was present immediately west of the airport.

The thoughts of that couple NEVER left my mind and I can still recall our brief meeting that friday. I am conservative and I'm ok with that. I decided to pursue my instrument rating and I know that makes me a better pilot but I said from day one hard IFR is not what I have any interest in. This is for fun, I'm not getting paid to do this.

My inner wuss got me home.....I'm ok with that.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .

Call me "scared" or "unsure" or even a "wuss" but I do not have an aviation background and so I have been staying on the cautious side.

A wise man once said (and you know who you are):

"Knowing and being comfortable with the edges of the envelope don't make you a daredevil, they make you educated, confident, competent, and a hell of a lot safer when the sh*t hits the fan."

So in defense of my wussiness, I ask you this: can you name a time you were overly conservative in your decision making, regarding something aviation related, only to later find out if you had NOT MADE that decision there would have been consequences?


This is sort of the opposite of my more recent "share things that were dumb where you lived to tell the tale and learned from it" thread.....
Click to expand...

I'm an A&P mechanic, I'll always error on the safe side with your life.

Even when it costs you a lot of money.
 
Sure. Kim, you probably even remember my posting of it - I was planning on taking a date to KHAF. Briefing repeatedly said VFR marginal, not advised. The guy at the airport, whom I called an hour prior to departure, said no problem, clear VFR skies. ATIS reported conditions "on the border of" VFR marginal.

I chose not to go, and went the other direction instead. The fog rolled in and covered KHAF completely less than two hours later - which means that we would have made it in, but had we gone there, we would not be coming back that night (I suppose whether I chose to take off or not :yikes:)
 
ScottM said:
I always make conservative choices when it comes to flying. Nothing wrong with that, let people think you are a wuss. Better a living wuss than a dead risk taker.
Click to expand...

Works for me. I've cancelled a number of trips due to WX forecasts that, had I gone could have been completed safely VFR. I can live with that. Much better than making a flight that the WX forecast said not to take and finding out that the weather guessers were right.
 
There's a difference between avoiding a situation and confronting a condition you are trained and prepared for but are unwilling to accept.

That said,

  • I've cancelled and then the weather improved as soon as I started driving.
  • I landed and refueled when there was enough to make it to the airport and then fly another hour.
  • I've cancelled because a CB was popped then learned it was always out -- since there was nothing on that circuit.
  • I've landed sooner than planned when it just wasn't fun anymore.
  • When I fly SEL at night I route plan over consecutive airports.
In each case someone on the sidelines could have easily accused me of wussiness.

So what?

Nevertheless, I'm glad I've been challenged from time to time when I was wavering about high winds or low ceilings or whatever and someone said, "Come on -- you can handle this!" And then I did and added that to my experience storehouse.

There will always be people who say "Safety first!" and others nod in solemn agreement.

Male Bovine Scat.

If it was truly "safety first," we wouldn't be flying. We'd be ensconced in bubblewrap entombed in concrete protected from all ills.
 
I did not have an aviation background either. I had a great uncle, but I would see him very rarely, and only once when he had planes and I was 4, but he still had his P-51 then he brought home from the war. I did though have a long history with machines, and some very high performance machines. Airplanes are not the fastest machines I've owned nor the most difficult to operate.
 
Henning said:
I did not have an aviation background either. I had a great uncle, but I would see him very rarely, and only once when he had planes and I was 4, but he still had his P-51 then he brought home from the war. I did though have a long history with machines, and some very high performance machines. Airplanes are not the fastest machines I've owned nor the most difficult to operate.
Click to expand...

What kind of machines have you owned and operated?
 
ajstoner21 said:
What kind of machines have you owned and operated?
Click to expand...

I'd build up engines and toss them in all sorts of things. I used to get different chassis out of the back of National Dragster, built a 12' hydroplane ... Built a gocart with full IRS and a GPz 1100 turbo engine, that was interesting.
 
As for operated, most things that float offshore including large dynamic cranes.
 
Flying wise...I broke a serious FAR and kept going. It wasn't so much that I broke a rule, but I broke MY rule.
 
GMascelli said:
11/11/2006 I was a freshly minted PPL (7/17/06) and taking a first trip (overnighter) to Williamsburg Jamestown. My Bride and i had a blast visiting with friends. We had left Wilmington delaware on Friday and had an uneventful flight south, all of 1.5 hours.

Saturday I made the call to bug out of town saturday because i did not like the wx moving north east from texas thats was going to blanket KJGG in for our sunday departure. Little did we know at the time that the couple we chatted with at Charly's and joked about rental cars that friday would experience the worst day by leaving sunday.

NTSB Report NYC07LA027

On November 12, 2006, at 1125 eastern standard time, a Piper PA-32R-300, Nxxxxx, was destroyed when it impacted trees shortly after takeoff from Williamsburg-Jamestown Airport (JGG), Williamsburg, Virginia. The certificated private pilot was seriously injured, and the passenger was fatally injured. Instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) prevailed, and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed for the personal flight, destined for Albert Whitted Airport (SPG), St. Petersburg, Florida. The flight was conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.

METEOROLOGICAL INFORMATION

The weather conditions reported at JGG, at 1120, included winds from 350 degrees true at 16 knots, gusting to 24 knots, visibility 5 statute miles, scattered clouds at 900 feet, a broken ceiling at 1,400 feet, an overcast ceiling at 2,100 feet, temperature 52 degrees Fahrenheit, dewpoint 52 degrees Fahrenheit, and an altimeter setting of 29.72 inches of mercury.

The weather reported at Newport News/Williamsburg International Airport, (PHF), Newport News, Virginia, about 12 nautical miles southeast, included winds from 330 degrees, at 16 knots, gusting to 23 knots, visibility 1 3/4 statute miles in heavy rain, overcast clouds at 600 feet, and an altimeter setting of 29.68 inches of mercury.

According to radar reflectivity images generated by the National Weather Service WSR-88D weather radar located in Wakefield, Virginia, at 1147, level 3 convective weather was present immediately west of the airport.

The thoughts of that couple NEVER left my mind and I can still recall our brief meeting that friday. I am conservative and I'm ok with that. I decided to pursue my instrument rating and I know that makes me a better pilot but I said from day one hard IFR is not what I have any interest in. This is for fun, I'm not getting paid to do this.

My inner wuss got me home.....I'm ok with that.
Click to expand...

I heard about that. I was told that was the only fatality at JGG.
I completed my PPL at JGG, but was very dissatisfied with owner/management and I now fly at another airport.
 
bluee said:
I heard about that. I was told that was the only fatality at JGG.
I completed my PPL at JGG, but was very dissatisfied with owner/management and I now fly at another airport.
Click to expand...

Wow, sorry to hear about the owner management issues. I really miss Jean Waltrip, she was a sweetheart. I have never had bad service there but, I'm not based there.
 
I'll likely never know if my decisions were too conservative. Not something I worry about. ;)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
So in defense of my wussiness, I ask you this: can you name a time you were overly conservative in your decision making, regarding something aviation related, only to later find out if you had NOT MADE that decision there would have been consequences?
Click to expand...
Most of the time when I cancel a flight because of qualms about the weather, or airplane concerns, it turns out that I could have made it after all. A good example being canceling going up to 6Y9 over the 4th weekend because my gear failed to retract on takeoff... which turns out to be the ONLY time it has done that in probably close to 50 retractions since.

But a couple of Sundays ago I was torn between taking a trip to Wisconsin's Door Peninsula and flying up to Northport in the Leelanau to hike the Mud Lake Trail. I didn't like the higher risk of storms on the west side of Lake Michigan, and my A&P was up at 5D5 doing an annual on a 150 and had packed the wrong air filter. Knowing that I was thinking of coming up, he called me up and asked if I would bring it, and that cemented my decision. But there was still a forecast of storms by evening so I kept a nervous eye out. Five hours later and several quarts into significant dehydration (it was HOT even up north that day), I called FSS and inquired how soon the storms would arrive. There were none on radar, said she. Not a call over the Lake, anywhere in MI or even in Wisconsin for that matter. I started to regret my decision to stay in MI. A little anyway.

Two hours later after a refreshing and sorely needed dinner in Traverse City, I briefed on a WSI station at Harbour Air. Another pilot pointed out the monster thunderstorms racing southeast through northern WI. I commented that it looked like a MCS and was NOT something I wanted to be anywhere near when it came across the lake, which we projected to happen in about 90 minutes or so. We both did our pre-flights hurriedly and got the heck out of Dodge... err, Traverse.

The flight home was uneventful. However, it turns out those storms took at least two lives, capsizing a boat near Charlevoix that was in the Mackinac races. :(
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .
Click to expand...

GA isn't really a good place to explore the edge of the envelope. Most of the planes just aren't designed for that, and neither is the pilot training.

I took up flying because flying is awesome and challenging...but it's a skill that's no good to me if I'm dead. I would never look down on a pilot who cancelled a flight because something didn't seem right to them, or they recognized a possible chain of events that could end with a smoking crater.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
So in defense of my wussiness, I ask you this: can you name a time you were overly conservative in your decision making, regarding something aviation related, only to later find out if you had NOT MADE that decision there would have been consequences?
Click to expand...

Like others that have posted, I'm not sure I know what the OP means. It wasn't overly conservative if it avoided some bad consequence otherwise.

But a different take would be the question of challenging your comfort zone and is it something you do methodically and often? If you don't, then you might be a pilot wuss. Examples would be seeking out cross winds a little more challenging than you're used to; planning a trip where you're headed farther from home after your first fuel stop; taking some spin training; landing at some runway that's smaller than you normally use; etc...

I'm not saying you have to work on being a steely eyed acro pilot or ATP to avoid pilot wussville but if you aren't working to extend your minimums and limits you might have found a home there. If it worries you or scares you, it's probably something you should be seeking out and conquering, right?
 
PittsDriver said:
Like others that have posted, I'm not sure I know what the OP means. It wasn't overly conservative if it avoided some bad consequence otherwise.

But a different take would be the question of challenging your comfort zone and is it something you do methodically and often? If you don't, then you might be a pilot wuss. Examples would be seeking out cross winds a little more challenging than you're used to; planning a trip where you're headed farther from home after your first fuel stop; taking some spin training; landing at some runway that's smaller than you normally use; etc...

I'm not saying you have to work on being a steely eyed acro pilot or ATP to avoid pilot wussville but if you aren't working to extend your minimums and limits you might have found a home there. If it worries you or scares you, it's probably something you should be seeking out and conquering, right?
Click to expand...


See post #19


Sorry, but folks who say, "Declining to fly under any circumstance is always good ADM!" confuse those who likely need to expand the experience envelope.
 
PittsDriver said:
Like others that have posted, I'm not sure I know what the OP means. It wasn't overly conservative if it avoided some bad consequence otherwise.

But a different take would be the question of challenging your comfort zone and is it something you do methodically and often? If you don't, then you might be a pilot wuss. Examples would be seeking out cross winds a little more challenging than you're used to; planning a trip where you're headed farther from home after your first fuel stop; taking some spin training; landing at some runway that's smaller than you normally use; etc...

I'm not saying you have to work on being a steely eyed acro pilot or ATP to avoid pilot wussville but if you aren't working to extend your minimums and limits you might have found a home there. If it worries you or scares you, it's probably something you should be seeking out and conquering, right?
Click to expand...

Right this is what I was saying. I may or may not have been accused of being a wuss, most likely as a joke, and not really valid since I'm still a student. But it would be easy to never seek out anything and just do pattern work every two months cuz I can't afford to fly. So that sort of a thing.
 
I'll be honest and say, during a time I couldnt afford to fly too often, I went 2 1/2 months without flying, went out and did three take offs and three landings for currency, and to remain an active renter, and couldnt fly again for a couple more months.

I did not feel proficient or safe at all, I ended up going with an instructor the time i finally flew for "real".
 
dmccormack said:
Sorry, but folks who say, "Declining to fly under any circumstance is always good ADM!" confuse those who likely need to expand the experience envelope.
Click to expand...

Excellent point.You will never become a better pilot if you stick to your comfort zone as of PPL Day 1. The art is deciding at what point is too much expansion of the envelope. And that, i think, is a personal decision. Depends on what that little dude whispering in your ear sez, and just how reliable he is.
 
I definitely agree that you need to push your comfort zone a little. I got a lot more experience, and got to experience more "real world" weather thanks to my trip to the East coast. My friend who went with was a more experienced pilot, so I felt comfortable pushing things a little.
 
Never made a "wussy" decision and later discovered I'd dodged a bullet... but that doesn't mean I am ashamed of my "wussy" decisions.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Right this is what I was saying. I may or may not have been accused of being a wuss, most likely as a joke, and not really valid since I'm still a student. But it would be easy to never seek out anything and just do pattern work every two months cuz I can't afford to fly. So that sort of a thing.
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with remaining well within your limitations but it's also wise to continuously but gradually expand those limitations with training and practice.
 
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