Show Off Your Inner Wuss

There is nothing wrong with turning back if you get uncomfortable. As you stretch your PPL a bit, that is a good thing to tell yourself. Doing a 180, keeping an "out", diverting, and sitting out weather, etc.
 
With regard to comfort zones, fear and apprehension, I view them as useful risk management tools.

If something scares me a bit, I don't necessarily just not do it.

I view them as the natural sign that I better make sure I know what I'm doing, that I leave myself some alternatives and that I am very careful not to screw it up.

Having said that, as someone that has worked in some dangerous hangars, and around dangerous equipment, I always maintain that we must all personally assume responsibility for our own safety.

I found myself working in a hangar from hell one night removing the leading edge fuel tank from a DC-8 years ago. We had no sling, or decent lifting equipment. Once we got the fasteners out, the lead had us all get in the tiny lift and use the lift to bring the tank to the ground.

When I was up there in that lift I realized just how dangerous and crazy a thing we were doing. That night I decided, the paycheck wasn't worth it. I took my tools home with me that night and never went back. It wasn't worth the money to work with those morons.

A couple years later I was in another hanger sharing the opinion that ultimately it was up to me to ensure someone's stupidity or greed, did not kill me.

The man I was talking to held up a hand to show me he was missing half of 4 fingers. He agreed 100%. He had previously worked with some kind of crane rigger and he didn't like the way the load was slung, but he let someone else talk him into just getting the job done. That was the day he lost the fingers.

I have nothing to prove to anyone, in aviation or otherwise. I simply don't care what anybody's opinion of my bravery is. I have been the only dissenting voice in a room full of "experts" before and more often than not I ultimately discover my concerns are valid in the end.

Safety is nothing to be egotistical or immature about. I take it very seriously.
 
GMascelli said:
Wow, sorry to hear about the owner management issues. I really miss Jean Waltrip, she was a sweetheart. I have never had bad service there but, I'm not based there.
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I never met Jean. I heard she was nice.
I spent a ton of money at that airport. Let's just say I don't like people lying to my face and screwing me over for money because they can. Other things too.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sometimes, as posted on this website, I have made "conservative" choices. Which means sometimes, some people, think I'm stuck squarely in the midle of the envelope . . .

Call me "scared" or "unsure" or even a "wuss" but I do not have an aviation background and so I have been staying on the cautious side.
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You're not a wuss, you simply have a smaller envelope. Nothing wrong with that, *as long as* you take the time and effort to seek out ways to *safely* expand that envelope so that you become a better pilot. As you pointed out, doing nothing but flying the pattern at your home airport is not good for one's piloting skills, experience, or judgement!

So, don't worry that your envelope is smaller than someone else's - Just make sure to carefully expand it over time. That will mean that sooner or later you'll take flights that you feel slightly uncomfortable about because of the unknowns. That feeling should prompt you to learn more about those unknowns and leave yourself with more outs than usual. Afterwards, you may find that your envelope has expanded in that area, or you may find that a fuzzy edge has become clearer for you. Either way, you've learned and become a better pilot. That's what it's all about.

And remember - Only push one corner at a time.
 
Aviation accidents happen as chains. For myself, I try to break chains. My rule is if there are 3 things wrong before I get going, the flight is automatically scrubbed. There was a flight to Philadelphia where thing number 3 was I didn't have and couldn't get the right chart. We drove. If I had it all over to do again I wouldn't do a thing differently.

One's envelope will expand over time of its own. Either that, or one will not fly.
 
steingar said:
Aviation accidents happen as chains. For myself, I try to break chains. My rule is if there are 3 things wrong before I get going, the flight is automatically scrubbed. There was a flight to Philadelphia where thing number 3 was I didn't have and couldn't get the right chart. We drove. If I had it all over to do again I wouldn't do a thing differently.

One's envelope will expand over time of its own. Either that, or one will not fly.
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Well, wait, wouldn't you scrub the flight if only 1 or 2 things went wrong? If three things went wrong, you should be good to go.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Well, wait, wouldn't you scrub the flight if only 1 or 2 things went wrong? If three things went wrong, you should be good to go.
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Aviation is of sufficient complexity that there almost always something wrong that in and of itself will not warrant scrubbing a flight. When I see three such somethings, I'm done. Period.
 
steingar said:
Aviation accidents happen as chains. For myself, I try to break chains. My rule is if there are 3 things wrong before I get going, the flight is automatically scrubbed. There was a flight to Philadelphia where thing number 3 was I didn't have and couldn't get the right chart. We drove. If I had it all over to do again I wouldn't do a thing differently.
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Not a bad rule at all - When I got my IR, the DPE suggested that as a good rule to follow for instrument flights, and I still do.

One's envelope will expand over time of its own. Either that, or one will not fly.
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Disagree - Most pilots' envelopes the day they get their Private will include only going to airports within 150nm, and in many cases only airports they've been to with their CFI. If that's their envelope, they'll never expand it - Going to new places, going farther away, etc. are all part of "pushing the envelope." If you do not push your envelope, it will not "expand over time of its own." You either go out and experience things, or you don't.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not a bad rule at all - When I got my IR, the DPE suggested that as a good rule to follow for instrument flights, and I still do.



Disagree - Most pilots' envelopes the day they get their Private will include only going to airports within 150nm, and in many cases only airports they've been to with their CFI. If that's their envelope, they'll never expand it - Going to new places, going farther away, etc. are all part of "pushing the envelope." If you do not push your envelope, it will not "expand over time of its own." You either go out and experience things, or you don't.
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I think that was his point with you'll either expand or you won't fly. Very few people will continue flying and not expand.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If you fly, and you don't push your envelope, you won't.
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Of course you will. You always encounter things you haven't seen. Weather, cross winds, human factors of all kinds. Start throwing in longer trips and you run into airspace, weather systems, and other factors.

You are correct in that if you only fly in the patter on CAVU days you will never expand your envelope. I've never heard of anyone actually doing that except perhaps Flyer.
 
Henning said:
They would be "the very few people", because that's not typical. More typical is those people quit flying within 15 hrs of their PPL.
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Sadly, it's more typical than you might think. When I worked at an FBO, I was absolutely blown away by the number of people who I'd see pass their checkride and then never see them at the airport again. In fact, I think it was the majority. :(

I think part of this is that we might even push too much caution. I may sound like a loose cannon for saying this, but I think the vast majority of people will be cautious about flying by default, and those who won't (the "type a personalities") will kill themselves no matter how much we talk about caution. If we talk about caution to the extent we think is required to save the unsaveable, we may be making flying scary enough for that majority that they never feel comfortable with flying without a CFI aboard, and since that's generally not practical for the things that flying is useful for (that Christmas trip to visit Grandma, etc.), they simply give it up, check the box on their bucket list, and move on. :(
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Sadly, it's more typical than you might think. When I worked at an FBO, I was absolutely blown away by the number of people who I'd see pass their checkride and then never see them at the airport again. In fact, I think it was the majority. :(

I think part of this is that we might even push too much caution. I may sound like a loose cannon for saying this, but I think the vast majority of people will be cautious about flying by default, and those who won't (the "type a personalities") will kill themselves no matter how much we talk about caution. If we talk about caution to the extent we think is required to save the unsaveable, we may be making flying scary enough for that majority that they never feel comfortable with flying without a CFI aboard, and since that's generally not practical for the things that flying is useful for (that Christmas trip to visit Grandma, etc.), they simply give it up, check the box on their bucket list, and move on. :(
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It's not even that it's scary, it's that it's so impractical for the expense. I've said it before, what aviation is lacking that other expensive hobbies have is a social scene. "Flying Clubs" are more a euphemism for "Private Plane Rental". Look at the "Yacht Club" model.... There is very little to entice people into aviation.
 
Henning said:
It's not even that it's scary, it's that it's so impractical for the expense. I've said it before, what aviation is lacking that other expensive hobbies have is a social scene. "Flying Clubs" are more a euphemism for "Private Plane Rental". Look at the "Yacht Club" model.... There is very little to entice people into aviation.
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I think that's largely true but there are pockets of aviation activities in which the people interaction is a really big part. The International Aerobatic Club (IAC) is a great example. Contests are as much about the people as the flying. Pilots get in to it to compete but then stay in it because of the people they meet. And, while the people are as diverse as it gets - a cardio-thoracic surgeon and a plumber; a wealthy real-estate guy and a soccer mom are all in the club and their ramp swagger all derives from what happens in the box. When you combine the great people with a passion for aerobatics you get one of the biggest reasons anyone shows up at an aerobatic contest.

And, it's not that expensive. A really capable aerobatic plane can be had for $30 - 50K and the training is hundreds, not multiple thousands of dollars. If you own a traveling airplane, an instrument rating, and do any recurrent training every year you're already spending way more on your aviation Jones than you would if you were an acro competitor and you're having less fun for it!
 
PittsDriver said:
I think that's largely true but there are pockets of aviation activities in which the people interaction is a really big part. The International Aerobatic Club (IAC) is a great example. Contests are as much about the people as the flying. Pilots get in to it to compete but then stay in it because of the people they meet. And, while the people are as diverse as it gets - a cardio-thoracic surgeon and a plumber; a wealthy real-estate guy and a soccer mom are all in the club and their ramp swagger all derives from what happens in the box. When you combine the great people with a passion for aerobatics you get one of the biggest reasons anyone shows up at an aerobatic contest.

And, it's not that expensive. A really capable aerobatic plane can be had for $30 - 50K and the training is hundreds, not multiple thousands of dollars. If you own a traveling airplane, an instrument rating, and do any recurrent training every year you're already spending way more on your aviation Jones than you would if you were an acro competitor and you're having less fun for it!
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Yep, now they need a club that doesn't include throwing up for most people.:D;)
 
PittsDriver said:
I think that's largely true but there are pockets of aviation activities in which the people interaction is a really big part. The International Aerobatic Club (IAC) is a great example. Contests are as much about the people as the flying. Pilots get in to it to compete but then stay in it because of the people they meet. And, while the people are as diverse as it gets - a cardio-thoracic surgeon and a plumber; a wealthy real-estate guy and a soccer mom are all in the club and their ramp swagger all derives from what happens in the box. When you combine the great people with a passion for aerobatics you get one of the biggest reasons anyone shows up at an aerobatic contest.

And, it's not that expensive. A really capable aerobatic plane can be had for $30 - 50K and the training is hundreds, not multiple thousands of dollars. If you own a traveling airplane, an instrument rating, and do any recurrent training every year you're already spending way more on your aviation Jones than you would if you were an acro competitor and you're having less fun for it!
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I fly to go to different places, not to fly in a 1/4 mile box. Plus, I don't think my dog would last very long in the acro plane.
 
Henning said:
They would be "the very few people", because that's not typical. More typical is those people quit flying within 15 hrs of their PPL.
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I hope this will not be me. My biggest challenge, I think, will be deciding whether to fly once a week for 0.4 (one landing, home airport) - or save up the money and not fly very often but when I do actually have a cool (new) cross country place to go and perhaps something to do there like have a meal or go camping or whatever.


Kimberly
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I hope this will not be me. My biggest challenge, I think, will be deciding whether to fly once a week for 0.4 (one landing, home airport) - or save up the money and not fly very often but when I do actually have a cool (new) cross country place to go and perhaps something to do there like have a meal or go camping or whatever.


Kimberly
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You're gonna have to try to do both. Once you have your PPL done though, you can take a friend or two who can kick in some "Pro Rata" money.
 
Henning said:
It's not even that it's scary, it's that it's so impractical for the expense. I've said it before, what aviation is lacking that other expensive hobbies have is a social scene. "Flying Clubs" are more a euphemism for "Private Plane Rental". Look at the "Yacht Club" model.... There is very little to entice people into aviation.
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I think flying can be social but the problem is the rest of the family if you have one. I think it's harder to entice a non-pilot spouse/SO and kids onto an airplane as it is a boat, especially depending on the activities your boat allows. I'm not sure how many non-pilots are entertained by constant talk of aviation, which is what usually happens. Then there's no real equivalent to "party cove"...
 
Henning said:
You're gonna have to try to do both. Once you have your PPL done though, you can take a friend or two who can kick in some "Pro Rata" money.
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Nope, I don't think anyone will go with me. And a lot of my friends don't have extra money anyways. I am not kidding about this, I'll be alone.
 
Everskyward said:
I think flying can be social but the problem is the rest of the family if you have one. I think it's harder to entice a non-pilot spouse/SO and kids onto an airplane as it is a boat, especially depending on the activities your boat allows. I'm not sure how many non-pilots are entertained by constant talk of aviation, which is what usually happens. Then there's no real equivalent to "party cove"...
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No - my Mom won't go near a plane, and even though my Dad was a pilot a long time ago in the Air Force only, his new wife is saying even HE won't go with me - which is different from what he promised when I started. Oh well.

And yes, the last time I was at a dinner with my female friend and her husband, I talked about my long solo XC and the husband yelled, "Kim! Speak English!" LOL I started talking in Pilot-ese I guess. They are SO SICK of hearing aviation stuff.

Thank goodness I have POA people to share my aviation stories with, or else I don't know what I would do.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Sadly, it's more typical than you might think. When I worked at an FBO, I was absolutely blown away by the number of people who I'd see pass their checkride and then never see them at the airport again. In fact, I think it was the majority. :(
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There are also a number (including a few that have been or are here) that get solo then never show again or finish their PPL. Some have the resources but just never follow-through, others have life get in the way.

kimberlyanne546 said:
Nope, I don't think anyone will go with me. And a lot of my friends don't have extra money anyways. I am not kidding about this, I'll be alone.
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You'd be surprised at the friends you can make by having a pilot license ad access to a plane. One post on FB, and I got three friends asking to ride along next time I bore holes in the sky.
 
wsuffa said:
There are also a number (including a few that have been or are here) that get solo then never show again or finish their PPL. Some have the resources but just never follow-through, others have life get in the way.



You'd be surprised at the friends you can make by having a pilot license ad access to a plane. One post on FB, and I got three friends asking to ride along next time I bore holes in the sky.
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Yes but did they give you money?
 
Your current friends may not want to fly with you but I'll bet you will make many new friends who will. Flying will expand your pool of friends considerable and while some won't have interests besides flying that bond you together many will. In my 14 years of flying I've made many new friends that have opend me up to many other new experiences. You just have to go with the flow.
 
Watch out for the, "Common purpose" and, "Holding out" legal interpretations if you take friends flying and they give you money even if you still pay at least your pro-rata share.
 
Henning said:
Yep, now they need a club that doesn't include throwing up for most people.:D;)
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Yeah, our "club" does things like fly to Mackinac Island or the Bahamas. That's something that even non-pilots can get into, and I don't recall any incidents of anyone throwing up.
 
I was flying in Iowa, in the winter. On board were our two best friends.

The female half of that couple had a job interview that afternoon. We were only going to be out an hour or two, for lunch, returning with plenty of time for her to make the interview, which was to take place less than a mile from our hangar.

Of course, we ran into snow showers. As we proceeded, we made it within 10 miles of Iowa City, when I made the decision to turn back. The snow wasn't a solid sheet ahead, but it was more than 50%, and there was no way of knowing (in those pre-XM weather days) if it got worse or better ahead.

That was the hardest no-go decision I have ever made. She was forced to rent a car and drive to her interview, which she BARELY made. I felt awful, but I knew that I had made the right decision.

The good news? She ended up getting the job.
 
tlglenn said:
Watch out for the, "Common purpose" and, "Holding out" legal interpretations if you take friends flying and they give you money even if you still pay at least your pro-rata share.
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Who's to say that you didn't want to go there too? What you want to avoid is people saying, "Kimberly took me to such-and-such a place and I paid her X amount for her to do that."

I agree that even if your current friends are not interested in flying, you will make other friends who are. It just takes time and a willingness to meet people. I know you have that because you are going all the way to 6Y9. :rofl:

What happened to that guy who was going to take you (Kim not Ted) flying? The one you posted about when you first joined this board?
 
Everskyward said:
Who's to say that you didn't want to go there too? What you want to avoid is people saying, "Kimberly took me to such-and-such a place and I paid her X amount for her to do that."

I agree that even if your current friends are not interested in flying, you will make other friends who are. It just takes time and a willingness to meet people. I know you have that because you are going all the way to 6Y9. :rofl:

What happened to that guy who was going to take you (Kim not Ted) flying? The one you posted about when you first joined this board?
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I do not know if he reads this board so I cannot say for certain, but basically I just did not hear from him anymore. About a month after no communications, I got a text that he had been busy building a new house (I think he moved to Oregon or somewhere pretty far away). The only reason we were going to fly that one time was because he was planning a trip back to my area for about a week, and he thought it would be a fun way to kill the time - he wants to retire and become a CFI / AOPA Mentor. The trip got cancelled and I don't think he has been back to the area since.
 
Hey Kim, you might enjoy following PittsDriver's advice. Join the IAC and get involved with your local chapter. There is a lot of things to do at meetings/competitions in addition to the flying. Also, I feel pretty sure you would meet some people there that would fly with you.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I missed this post the first time around. I think you are silly. I am looking forward to August 31st and in fact I am certain it will be a great time.
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I see drinking begins early in California.
 
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