Should I renew AOPA membership?

:dunno:
airdale said:
I don't think you've ever run a real business. If you had, you'd recognize the risk in the situation.
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Does Chairman/CEO of a $50+ mil revenue investment bank, broker-dealer and registered investment advisor count?

Does multiple-year audit experience with a big-8 accounting firm count for understanding internal control?

And I don't think you have a clue about the reality of any of this stuff.
 
AOPA is like the AARP. Its a business now.

I agree that they do good things. But like the NRA there is a group they would sell out in a heartbeat to get something they want done.

Flying part 91 turbines, there isn't a great voice right now. Plus I think that there are some serious issues with current airport security measures.

I will just keep to myself for now. I dont need a free knee board or sporty's errrrr aopa pilot mags right now.
 
Does Chairman/CEO of a $50+ mil revenue investment bank, ... <snip> ... big-8 accounting firm count for understanding internal control?
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Well, if you've done that, then you've seen what can happen:

"We have plenty of money ...

... so let's get a Gulf III and ditch that old Citation."

... so let's take the whole staff and their spouses to Hawaii."

... so I'm sure we can find a job for your nephew. We'll do that in one of the for-profit subsidiaries where the tax returns aren't public."

... so we don't have to fool with competitive bidding. We'll just give the order to your buddy Fred's company. And we'll let Yodice's firm handle the legal aid program."

... so we can afford to add an expensive doctor to the staff. If he can't think of anything else to write about, there's always bedbugs."

... we'll put our wives on the payroll. They always help out at the convention anyway, and no one will ever notice."

and so on. Usually it isn't a matter of someone absconding with the money. Usually it is just wasted. The bigger the pile, the easier it is to hide something in it. It is also easier when the organization's board is picked by itself and management insiders and when the organization's annual meeting is held in virtual secrecy.

I once belonged to a nonprofit organization where some genius did a sale/leaseback on the building, leaving $2-3M in proceeds just sitting in the bank. New CEO came in, used the money to move the organization 1000 miles to his home town, then was gone in two years. Flush ...

So with all that experience, can you see any justification for an organization with a stable and predictable P&L to have 200% of gross revenue in cash? For comparison the National Rifle Association, which is a similar organization but five times AOPA's size, has a reserve that is less than half of AOPA's $77 million. Theirs is $32M/about 14% of gross revenue.
 
You're describing the US Congress, not a well-managed NFP with adequate systems of internal control and governance. Have you asked the association why they are carrying the cash/securities balances that you find so outrageous? you obviously think the board is composed of crooks. Which ones should we be watching the most carefully?

What is your experience in corner office positions?

airdale said:
Well, if you've done that, then you've seen what can happen:

"We have plenty of money ...

... so let's get a Gulf III and ditch that old Citation."

... so let's take the whole staff and their spouses to Hawaii."

... so I'm sure we can find a job for your nephew. We'll do that in one of the for-profit subsidiaries where the tax returns aren't public."

... so we don't have to fool with competitive bidding. We'll just give the order to your buddy Fred's company. And we'll let Yodice's firm handle the legal aid program."

... so we can afford to add an expensive doctor to the staff. If he can't think of anything else to write about, there's always bedbugs."

... we'll put our wives on the payroll. They always help out at the convention anyway, and no one will ever notice."

and so on. Usually it isn't a matter of someone absconding with the money. Usually it is just wasted. The bigger the pile, the easier it is to hide something in it. It is also easier when the organization's board is picked by itself and management insiders and when the organization's annual meeting is held in virtual secrecy.

I once belonged to a nonprofit organization where some genius did a sale/leaseback on the building, leaving $2-3M in proceeds just sitting in the bank. New CEO came in, used the money to move the organization 1000 miles to his home town, then was gone in two years. Flush ...

So with all that experience, can you see any justification for an organization with a stable and predictable P&L to have 200% of gross revenue in cash? For comparison the National Rifle Association, which is a similar organization but five times AOPA's size, has a reserve that is less than half of AOPA's $77 million. Theirs is $32M/about 14% of gross revenue.
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you obviously think the board is composed of crooks.
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No, just normal people with normal weaknesses. Hard to say whether they are doing a good job, though, because the governance is so closed and secretive.
What is your experience in corner office positions?
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Enough, but this kind of thing on the internet is just liars' poker. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Internet_dog.jpg I generally don't play and I apologize for starting the game here.

Enough thread drift.
 
Back to the original Q re: an AOPA membership?

A fair bit of the non-renewal logic expressed here seems to be full of WIIFM - 'What's in it for me?' Depending on how myopic one chooses to be, some of AOPA's 'WIIFM' can be missed altogether. E.g. I see no reference here to the almost new, AOPA-created 'General Aviation Caucus' in Congress. Imagine the challenge - and the value - of bringing together 20+% of all Senators and Congressmen, Dems and Republicans, who are voluntarily joining a non-partisan group to influence Congress on a single set of (your) issues. Collectively, that's a lot of WIIFM. But if in doubt about this and AOPA's other advocacy efforts (and you can access the AOPA website), look at all the Advocacy activities documented in just the last 30 days at:
http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/capitolhill/
Keep in mind this does not reflect any of the state level and local advocacy work they do. My last home town airport (SPG in St. Pete, FL) was literally rescued by a city-wide referendum that sank real estate developers (aka: local pols campaign contributors) hopes of getting the airport land, thanks in part to AOPA's involvement.

But let's stick with the truly selfish side of the renewal argument. My advice to the OP is to make your decision after educating yourself on what AOPA can in fact offer you, exclusively/personally/specifically. What I've found is that many who voice negative comments about AOPA membership 'not being worth it' are fairly uninformed on how to benefit from the membership. It really doesn't have much to do with the magazines...altho' they both are considered benchmarks in the industry (even if you don't personally like them). Here are some membership benefits I've used in the past 30 days:

-- ASI's on-line seminars and quizes have been, for me, an outstanding way to refresh my knowledge in specific areas I'm concerned about. I quibble about a few 'gotcha' questions in each test but, honestly, the breadth and quality of of these programs is excellent. All are free, automatically integrated with the FAAST/Wings program to earn Wings credit, and AOPA auto-manages one's transcript and, if you wish, creates certificates of completion which can be passed on to an insurance company when shopping for coverage.
-- That's only one slice of the ASI's resources available to pilots. You'll find the extensive list of on-line resources at: http://www.aopa.org/asf/index.html
-- Without enrolling in their Medical Services program (which is a $33/year additional fee), I've read up extensively on the FAA's view of a specific medical issue I need to stay current on, checked approved meds for that condition, and I've completed a one-time-only Form 8500 with my various Doc visits/dates/meds all laid out as required. I can store that virtual form off-line or on-line, only need to update it as Doc visits occur, and with each AME visit I just click/print the form. Some (many?) AME's even accept the form digitally. Simple, free, and increasingly useful if one develops a medical condition warranting further exams/tests/etc.
-- We're plane shopping and, because of a previous positive experience in co-ownership, I've been using their Partnership service. This on-line program was purchased by AOPA when the private developer couldn't make it pay, and there are over 100 participants in just the 30 NM radius of my home. When I couldn't find the right 'open share', I made the program create a shopping of list of potential partners for me so that we could collectively form a new partnership from scratch.
-- Related to that, I've used the AOPA resources re: co-ownership two different times now, and they have proven exceptionally helpful in educating potential partners and providing a legally-vetted generic Partnership Agreement which we can modify to suit.
-- I routinely get or use a mix of other aviation-related media, which I can skim thru and dig out what for me are the nuggets. AOPA-Live video segments and ePilot (sent to me weekly) are two examples. Could I live without them? Sure. Am I glad I get them. Definitely.

There are a host of other discrete AOPA services that have been not just helpful to me as first a student and then an active pilot and a/c owner - e.g. their legal services group helped successfully coach me thru a decision by a grumpy controller to try and violate me when I had an engine failure and had to land on an unpopulated barrier island off the SC coast. Join, renew, or not - definitely an individual decision. But mine the AOPA website first (even if you are a member) and consider what AOPA might be and could be doing for you before letting a few forum rants make up your mind for you.

Jack
 
The bottom line to this scare-tactic objection is that the procedures and safeguards for taking care of the money are the same whether it's 75 thousand or 75 million. It's not hard and we did (and still do) take care of more than a hundred million of other people's money. It's simply not an issue in the big scheme of things.

I don't agree with all of AOPA's management decisions either, but trying to tie that to the risk of defalcation is simply an emotional reaction rather than an issue of fiscal responsibility.

airdale said:
No, just normal people with normal weaknesses. Hard to say whether they are doing a good job, though, because the governance is so closed and secretive.
Enough, but this kind of thing on the internet is just liars' poker. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Internet_dog.jpg I generally don't play and I apologize for starting the game here.

Enough thread drift.
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Re: Back to the original Q re: an AOPA membership?

Jack in Jax said:
A fair bit of the non-renewal logic expressed here seems to be full of WIIFM - 'What's in it for me?' Depending on how myopic one chooses to be, some of AOPA's 'WIIFM' can be missed altogether.
[snip]
But mine the AOPA website first (even if you are a member) and consider what AOPA might be and could be doing for you before letting a few forum rants make up your mind for you.

Jack
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By all means, the OP should consider what AOPA does offer.

But frankly I think the tone of your post is rude. You appear to dismiss people who don't want to renew their AOPA membership as people who are ignorant. As if no one who truly understood what AOPA provides could possibly pass on the joy of being a member.
 
http://www.aopa.org/foundation/philanthropy.html

Why stop at 40 bucks, buy all the lobbying you need?

For small donation of $50,000.00 you could be "Presidents Council" you'd feel all warm and fuzzy for a long time. You get Craigs, phone number, invites to dinners. Heck you might get a free subscription to LifeLock and a box of wine. THATS NOT ALL. For a limited time, you'll also get a lifetime supply of Political Correctness even if is in direct contradiction to their mission of safety and at a cost of ignoring a known issue on the FAA's radar that is likely to lead to more restrictions by the FAA. Worried you might not know when you're being politically correct or not? Lay out some facts that don't go over well with a vocal whining minority? NO PROBLEM! AOPA will happily shut you up and apologize on your behalf should you offend someone. This is practically a STEAL folks. ACT NOW an they'll throw in daily deliveries of fire starting material, christmas cards, a sticker, a PIN, a small flight bag and AN airport directory!!!!!!!!! But, WILL IT BLEND?
 
denverpilot said:
Don't be surprised if people think nothing good is happening and don't renew, then.

Most people demand more transparency in their chosen places to send money these days. If the organization claims to be a lobby, they'd better post what they lobby about and when they win.

If they're really not a lobby, they'd better stop claiming that's why they need money.
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Exactly. I have never seen the results of efforts of AOPA directly. If things are publicized why are the only emails I am getting from Craig Fuller are ones asking me for MORE money? This year after I was automatically renewed, I stopped my membership from being renewed. I don't need their legal services, so I don't feel AOPA does any good for me personally. I get they are a big voice for GA, at least they claim to be, but when the only thing I get from AOPA are emails and letters begging me for money, I don't really see where the money is going. All Craig says is GA is in huge trouble, but I don't see where the money is going...

While I love GA, and support GA of course, as I think everyone would, AOPA doesn't represent my aviation career and has no intention to. The 135 and 121 operators receive no benefits from AOPA.
 
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Inverted said:
Exactly. I have never seen the results of efforts of AOPA directly. If things are publicized why are the only emails I am getting from Craig Fuller are ones asking me for MORE money? This year after I was automatically renewed, I stopped my membership from being renewed. I don't need their legal services, so I don't feel AOPA does any good for me personally. I get they are a big voice for GA, at least they claim to be, but when the only thing I get from AOPA are emails and letters begging me for money, I don't really see where the money is going. All Craig says is GA is in huge trouble, but I don't see where the money is going...
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The problem, to me, is not them failing to note what they've done, its taking credit for other people's work.

That makes me angry.
 
Well, being the "only" voice for GA, they get to reap the benefits of taking credit for others work because nobody else will.
 
SkyHog said:
The problem, to me, is not them failing to note what they've done, its taking credit for other people's work.
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That would indeed be an odd thing: failing to take credit for what you've accomplished on one hand and taking credit for the work of others on the other hand.

Do you have specific examples in mind?

I can see and understand anger when AOPA fails or screws up in a battle over an issue of personal interest, and I can understand annoyance at being constantly solicited for money, but I'm personally too lazy to get angry or expend hatred toward such entities. Good to see others have more energy than me! :wink2:

In the grand scope of human affairs, I categorize the AOPA in with the good-guys. Priority-wise I'm willing to send them $40 a year for their magazine, Vref, safety activities, and such services - while making sure that I donate more toward charities helping the less fortunate.
 
The guys that are bitching about the lobbying efforts don't have the foggiest notion of how it really works. Much of it goes on with members (and their staff) of subcommittees and influential congress critters and agencies. When a lobby is able to quietly snuff out or substantially modify a potentially damaging piece of legislation or onerous regulation long before it ever gets to the full committee or the floor, they often keep their mouths shut so as to not rile the opposition into action. BTDT with tax law changes from 1969-1986.

And no lobbyist or group wins them all. If you're lobbying one side of a deal, you can figure the other side is equally funded and working just as hard to achieve the results they desire.

Jim Logajan said:
That would indeed be an odd thing: failing to take credit for what you've accomplished on one hand and taking credit for the work of others on the other hand.

Do you have specific examples in mind?

I can see and understand anger when AOPA fails or screws up in a battle over an issue of personal interest, and I can understand annoyance at being constantly solicited for money, but I'm personally too lazy to get angry or expend hatred toward such entities. Good to see others have more energy than me! :wink2:

In the grand scope of human affairs, I categorize the AOPA in with the good-guys. Priority-wise I'm willing to send them $40 a year for their magazine, Vref, safety activities, and such services - while making sure that I donate more toward charities helping the less fortunate.
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Perhaps it's time for a deep breath...

This thread is a good reminder of the dark mood we seem to collectively suffer from right now...and that we perhaps reinforce to some extent when contributing to threads like this. Conceptually, we all know that no organization is perfect, that politics (in this case, advocacy on behalf of GA) is especially imperfect but also necessarily important, and of course we all know that AOPA - like it or not - is the big GA gun re: pilot and a/c owner representation, and also the main provider of services to both groups.

But oh my... Look at the heated commentary, the emotionally laden 'it didn't do this' or 'it did that', and all of it surrounding a $40/yr membership that's completely voluntary...and BTW acceptable to hundreds of thousands of fellow pilots.

Perhaps among all the give & take in this thread, we should spend a bit more time encouraging perspective. The OP's Q has certainly been thrashed out...

Jack
 
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Jim Logajan said:
That would indeed be an odd thing: failing to take credit for what you've accomplished on one hand and taking credit for the work of others on the other hand.

Do you have specific examples in mind?

I can see and understand anger when AOPA fails or screws up in a battle over an issue of personal interest, and I can understand annoyance at being constantly solicited for money, but I'm personally too lazy to get angry or expend hatred toward such entities. Good to see others have more energy than me! :wink2:

In the grand scope of human affairs, I categorize the AOPA in with the good-guys. Priority-wise I'm willing to send them $40 a year for their magazine, Vref, safety activities, and such services - while making sure that I donate more toward charities helping the less fortunate.
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Well, the biggest example I can think of is this:

Day 1: AOPA issues a statement that says "There are rumors that the Washington, D.C. ADIZ will change from its familiar mouse shape to a more simplistic circle with a constant radius. We have no reason to believe that this is true, and should be dismissed as a rumor. In fact, you would think that if this were true, we would be among the first to know." (paraphrasing)

Day 2: No update

Day 3: AOPA issues a statement that says "Thanks to the great lobbying efforts by AOPA, the FAA has agreed to change the Washington, D.C. ADIZ to be a more simple circle with a constant radius. AOPA continues to do great things for pilots, please consider donating to the AOPA PAC!" (paraphrasing)

Note that both statements were signed by Phil Boyer.
 
Jim Logajan said:
In the grand scope of human affairs, I categorize the AOPA in with the good-guys. Priority-wise I'm willing to send them $40 a year for their magazine, Vref, safety activities, and such services - while making sure that I donate more toward charities helping the less fortunate.
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Same here. It's $40 not $400. If you don't think it's worth it don't do it, but I don't understand all the angst.
 
Well, a year ago my income went from 6 figures to a monthly social security check <shrug>
I am dropping all membership dues with one exception, one that that I need to maintain my professional licensure - ya never know, I might work again (if my wife has anything to say about it :)

denny-o
 
airdale said:
Ron, do you know of any objective data concerning the political effectiveness of AOPA? The relentless chest-thumping and self-promotion that dominate the magazine seem to be what most people are basing their opinions on.

Re all the solicitations for money, most people don't seem to be aware of the huge pile of cash that AOPA is sitting on. As of the 2009 tax return, which is the last one I have seen, the stash was $76,000,000. That is seven years of dues income and approximately four times the total assets of the Air Safety Foundation. So when they are bleating about the need to support ASF and holding bake sales, the truth is that AOPA could easily double or triple the size of ASF without putting itself in any financial jeopardy at all.

AOPA has a very steady and predictable income and has no need for such a huge pile of cash. Given that AOPA management also picks their own bosses, this is a classic precursor to financial malfeasance.
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The Washington Post and USA Today hate AOPA, and they've been called "The NRA of the Air".

Good enough for me.
 
AOPA does not sell insurance; the AOPA Insurance Agency licenses the use of the name, along with agreeing to comply with AOPA standards.

Good agency, too.
 
The Washington Post and USA Today hate AOPA, and they've been called "The NRA of the Air".
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Well, that's a positive credential! Nice to know that they are effective enough to show on some radar screens. Hopefully the New York TImes hates them too.

AOPA does not sell insurance; the AOPA Insurance Agency licenses the use of the name, along with agreeing to comply with AOPA standards.
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Actually the insurance agency is listed as a for-profit subsidiary on the AOPA tax return. It is not just a licensee. "AOPA Membership Publications, Inc." is another for-profit sub, receiving around half of AOPA's gross revenue. "AOPA Service Corporation" is a third, receiving a little under 20% of AOPA's gross revenue. All have the same mailing address as AOPA. Since they are for-profit corporations, none of their financial information, employee compensation, etc. is public. AOPA is not a simple membership club.
 
I called them this morning to express my concerns with the "scam" tactics they allow their partners to use and the "scam" ads they allow in their magazine. Told them that, by being a party to such scams, they aren't looking out for their members' best interest.

A nice young man named Chris basically told me that these scams fund their advocacy. i.e. the end justifies the means.

Oooookay.

edit: if AOPA does indeed sell insurance, then it is they who are doing the scamming also.
 
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Flying h4x0r said:
How many of you guys are AOPA members? Is there anything about it you find useful.
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renew. At the basic rate/plan.

Don't buy the extras unless they make sense in your personal situation.

AOPA is still the only major organization fighting for our right to fly, trying to keep costs as low as possible, advocating against stupid laws, stupid regulations, and stupid taxes whether at the federal, state, or local levels..

Getting the magazine is just a bonus over and beyond that stuff.,
 
I use the online flight planner nearly every day, worth every penny to me just for that.

I bought the legal plan, its useful and a lot cheaper than the alternatives, came in handy for me once. Saved enough to pay for 20+ years of dues.

The life insurance worked out for me as well.

Doesnt hurt to have " a man in Washington" either.

I give the magazines out to anyone that shows interest in aviation.




Sent from my iPad
 
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