Should I be ashamed?

Bottom line...MAKG1 for Prez 2020

The legendary Mac G! Straight outta Cali. Free Winnie the Pooh stickers for all PoA members!
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, I agree with you.

But he is extraordinary in the things he said, and you can't discount that well over half the US population has been his target at one point or another during the campaign. You have to allow that this was exceptionally divisive, and he did it. It will take a lot more than telling half the population to just get over it to heal.

If he does as he said he would, it's going to get a lot worse. If he comes to his senses, maybe not. But you'll find that a lot of folks will not be willing to listen to that. Especially since being outrageous is how he got elected.

There hasn't been a campaign like this in my lifetime, in the US. Not even close. There was a little trepidation when the head of the CIA won the election, but it wasn't close to the same scale.

And I don't for one instant imagine all would be good if the other side won. But this guy scares A LOT of people. And you will not convince them otherwise with this argument. That's what's going on, and why there is so much poor behavior.

I hope you're right. The stuff this guy said is frightening in many respects.
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I can see where you're coming from, however, as I have said, I don't agree with everything he's said, but I do agree with many things he wants to do. I don't want to get political, because it's turning into spin zone material, but the whole point of what I said is to just be optimistic and hope that he leads the country in a positive way, making changes to better benefit our safety and security. He's said that he will be a president for ALL American's and I have to believe that. The potential is certainly there.
 
MAKG1 said:
The stuff this guy said is frightening in many respects.
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Frightening for you maybe, encouraging to others. He didn't win in spite of what he said, he won because of what he said. Assuming you are speaking of his campaign promises.
 
As The Eagles sing, "Get Over It"!

ps the sun come up tomorrow morning too.
 
MAKG1 said:
But he is extraordinary in the things he said, and you can't discount that well over half the US population has been his target at one point or another during the campaign. You have to allow that this was exceptionally divisive, and he did it. It will take a lot more than telling half the population to just get over it to heal.
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Oddly enough I agree with you. Yet almost half the population that cast a vote for president voted for him. I don't believe that entire voting bloc is racist, xenophobic, or misogynist, so there clearly must be something else that resonated in spite of these messages. Both current parties and the rising ones too would do well to learn from this.

Nauga,
who can read the writing on the wall
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
No it doesn't. 1st Amendment protects that right.
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What's legal and what's moral ain't the same. If one has the right to vote and didn't, one doesn't have the moral right to ***** about the outcome.
 
In a practical sense, it can be said that the votes of all New Yorkers who live outside urban centers don't count in presidential or statewide elections. The populations of the combined urban centers dramatically outnumber rural voters, and residents of urban centers overwhelmingly vote Democrat. For those of us in rural areas, voting is pointless from a practical standpoint.

But I still vote. It wouldn't feel right to me not to.

Rich
 
Not bothering to vote is pretty common, but you don't often hear about someone de-registering himself as a voter. I actually did it, in New Jersey, about 30 years ago.

When I set out to deregister, I first faced the obstacle that the state provided no form to fill out for such a purpose. It provided a form to register, but not one to deregister.

It turned out, though, that another form had the same effect, by reporting that I moved to another state. And so, that's how I made myself vanish, as a voter.

Later, I registered to vote again. I had deregistered because of my frustration with politicians who did the opposite of what they promised. They still do that often enough that I pay less attention to their promises than to their character and values. Some elections offer candidates with reasonably good character and values to weigh, others not so much ...
 
My wife had a bunch of supposed friends start attacking her after the election results came out... called her all sorts of horrible things and unfriended her. The real kicker was they didn't even know how she had actually voted, she chose to keep that secret and only told me. They just assumed and attacked.

Now, personally I thrive on messing with irate idiots and I probably would have a field day but she's a better person than me. I know it hurt...

That's our problem right there. We assume stuff about each other, we don't listen to each other, we demonize each other. Then when we have a problem we want solved we don't care about the other person.... that person doesn't deserve consideration. I am talking about both parties- it's everybody. It's not the politicians it's the people. We've got to start figuring out how to talk to each other and find some solutions that will work for all... or at least most. Otherwise we're just going to continue this pattern of upsets and reversals every few years forever... and it seems to get worse every time.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Actually, there is no constitutional "right to vote" in a federal election. Your state's constitution may contain verbiage of your right to vote in an election. Read the Supreme Court’s decision in Bush v. Gore (2000). There the Supreme Court plainly states that there is no Constitutional right to vote in a presidential election.

<--- pointer outer
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You are correct. Frankly I think we should bring back limits on voter eligibility. There are lots of people voting that shouldn't be allowed in a voting booth
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, I agree with you.

But he is extraordinary in the things he said, and you can't discount that well over half the US population has been his target at one point or another during the campaign. You have to allow that this was exceptionally divisive, and he did it. It will take a lot more than telling half the population to just get over it to heal.

If he does as he said he would, it's going to get a lot worse. If he comes to his senses, maybe not. But you'll find that a lot of folks will not be willing to listen to that. Especially since being outrageous is how he got elected.

There hasn't been a campaign like this in my lifetime, in the US. Not even close. There was a little trepidation when the head of the CIA won the election, but it wasn't close to the same scale.

And I don't for one instant imagine all would be good if the other side won. But this guy scares A LOT of people. And you will not convince them otherwise with this argument. That's what's going on, and why there is so much poor behavior.

I hope you're right. The stuff this guy said is frightening in many respects.
Click to expand...
What I have a hard time understanding is how so many of the "marginalized" groups haven't recognized how many of the policies designed to protect them actually marginalized them even more from mainstream society and the politicians know this and don't care because it creates a guaranteed vote in every election. They are being used not protected/helped
 
Does anyone else find the protesting incredibly stupid?

You nominated the wrong candidate, therefore because you chose poorly you lost, so you protest against yourself?
 
asicer said:
What if you're ineligible for office?
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It really doesn't matter. The right to vote for whomever one wants is not limited by the candidate's eligibility for the office. What would happen if an ineligible person were actually elected might make for interesting theoretical discussion; but in practical terms, it's a protest vote and nothing more.

Rich
 
denverpilot said:
Does anyone else find the protesting incredibly stupid?

You nominated the wrong candidate, therefore because you chose poorly you lost, so you protest against yourself?
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I find it ironic because the protesters are largely the same bunch who were aghast that Trump wouldn't agree in advance to accept the election results without question. He was castigated and condemned as not believing in democracy when all he said was that he'd have to look at the results -- and this was before there were even any results to look at.

Rich
 
cowman said:
That's our problem right there. We assume stuff about each other, we don't listen to each other, we demonize each other. Then when we have a problem we want solved we don't care about the other person.... that person doesn't deserve consideration. I am talking about both parties- it's everybody. It's not the politicians it's the people. We've got to start figuring out how to talk to each other and find some solutions that will work for all... or at least most. Otherwise we're just going to continue this pattern of upsets and reversals every few years forever... and it seems to get worse every time.
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I think you have good intentions, but it isn't quite that easy. The discussion can't just be about the issues themselves because our opinions on the issues stem from something deeper than just our opinions. We are deeply divided by ideology, so the discussion will have to begin by tackling some of the larger questions about existence, purpose, rights, and responsibilities. I honestly think a thorough study of history would help as well because we are ignoring many of the atrocities that are not yet very distant in our past, and what allowed or caused them. This is a long and involved process because I believe it will require one side to admit that they've been terribly wrong in how they view the world, humanity, dignity and freedom. I believe the divide will continue.:(
 
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Tarheelpilot said:
What I have a hard time understanding is how so many of the "marginalized" groups haven't recognized how many of the policies designed to protect them actually marginalized them even more from mainstream society and the politicians know this and don't care because it creates a guaranteed vote in every election. They are being used not protected/helped
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It's not the economic policies that have people upset. That's virtually identical to 2000, and nothing like this happened.

It's promising to round people up, take marriages away, and so on. These are things people care deeply about. You can't screw with someone's family and not expect a strong reaction.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's not the economic policies that have people upset. That's virtually identical to 2000, and nothing like this happened.

It's promising to round people up, take marriages away, and so on. These are things people care deeply about. You can't screw with someone's family and not expect a strong reaction.
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Promising to restore what once was, when America was doing quite well. It shouldn't be that threatening. Remember, it was the previous president who campaigned on CHANGE. Many people didn't want that change, and should have been the ones who felt threatened. But, they managed their concerns civilly.
 
MAKG1 said:
It's not the economic policies that have people upset. That's virtually identical to 2000, and nothing like this happened.

It's promising to round people up, take marriages away, and so on. These are things people care deeply about. You can't screw with someone's family and not expect a strong reaction.
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Yeah. That's what I'm talking about .... the social issues.
 
UGH!!! More politics! I saw the thread title and was hoping for something good to lower the blood pressure, not raise it. Was hoping to respond to the title "Should I be ashamed?" with a simple meme....:( :(

bible-church-funny-hell-masturbation-sex-favim-com-42457.jpg


Guess, I'll have to wait for the trolls and hot heads to cool down so we can back to what's important.
 
Cooter said:
Promising to restore what once was, when America was doing quite well. It shouldn't be that threatening. Remember, it was the previous president who campaigned on CHANGE. Many people didn't want that change, and should have been the ones who felt threatened. But, they managed their concerns civilly.
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Are you really saying that having Mom deported or your marriage nullified shouldn't upset you? These are real people, not the abstract. And they do not agree with you. It scares the crap out of a lot of people.
 
bmoeller said:
UGH!!! More politics! I saw the thread title and was hoping for something good to lower the blood pressure, not raise it. Was hoping to respond to the title "Should I be ashamed?" with a simple meme....:( :(

bible-church-funny-hell-masturbation-sex-favim-com-42457.jpg


Guess, I'll have to wait for the trolls and hot heads to cool down so we can back to what's important.
Click to expand...

It was always the fear of hairy palms that kept me from doing it, not going to hell. I like warmer climates.
 
MAKG1 said:
Are you really saying that having Mom deported or your marriage nullified shouldn't upset you? These are real people, not the abstract. And they do not agree with you. It scares the crap out of a lot of people.
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Breaking the law can have consequences and they are not always pleasant. As far as marriage, you are terribly misled if you think that was the actual issue. Not allowing the overturn of the entirety of human history is hardly harsh. Overturning it however, at the expense of others freedoms, is.
 
Maybe we should be like some place like North Korea. Voting is mandatory, but there is only one candidate...

I voted against a candidate rather than for the other. Funny how that makes sense to everyone this time.

I served for 22 years in the Army. I know Sac served too. I don't feel insulted some didn't vote and bet neither does Sac. I don't understand it, but this country is really based on freedom of that choice. To quote Rush's song Freewill, "When you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, but many of the affected people did not break the law. It's not just immigrants.
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PM to continue this discussion, as I am sure it will be locked rather quickly.
 
Cooter said:
Breaking the law can have consequences and they are not always pleasant. As far as marriage, you are terribly misled if you think that was the actual issue. Not allowing the overturn of the entirety of human history is hardly harsh. Overturning it however, at the expense of others freedoms, is.
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Youre telling people not to be scared because you aren't. It doesn't work that way. I don't think the reaction is constructive at all, but I don't imagine for an instant that I can dictate others' feelings. You can't mess with a person's family and not expect a strong reaction.
 
nauga said:
Oddly enough I agree with you. Yet almost half the population that cast a vote for president voted for him. I don't believe that entire voting bloc is racist, xenophobic, or misogynist, so there clearly must be something else that resonated in spite of these messages. Both current parties and the rising ones too would do well to learn from this.

Nauga,
who can read the writing on the wall
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Yup. Hopefully learning will take place. I say again;

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.
 
MAKG1 said:
Yes, but many of the affected people did not break the law. It's not just immigrants. Not even close, really.
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No one is suggesting that the anchor babies have to stay while their law-breaking parents have to go.
 
MAKG1 said:
Youre telling people not to be scared because you aren't. It doesn't work that way. I don't think the reaction is constructive at all, but I don't imagine for an instant that I can dictate others' feelings. You can't mess with a person's family and not expect a strong reaction.
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You have a habit of misrepresenting to create a dialogue that you want instead of the one that actually is. Where did I say that people shouldn't be scared because I'm not? What I am saying is that many of their fears are ungrounded. There may be some legitimate fears but those are largely a result of their own decision making. They gambled and now they may lose, maybe. The point is that America was challenged under Obama and the concerns and fears then were legitimate. Don't forget that his own words told us that he wanted to fundamentally transform America. That rightly caused much concern. But, having fears and concerns does not equal riots and unrest. Unless of course that is part of your larger strategy.
 
I will also say that many of the fears are put there by people who want to use them to their advantage. They are being manipulated. I think Lenin referred to them as useful idiots.
 
nauga said:
:rolleyes:

Nauga
who's jus' sayin'
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That is not misrepresenting any of his statements. That is a declaration of my own, which I am happy to substantiate.

"you are telling people" was present in his post, not mine.
 
cowman said:
My wife had a bunch of supposed friends start attacking her after the election results came out... called her all sorts of horrible things and unfriended her. The real kicker was they didn't even know how she had actually voted, she chose to keep that secret and only told me. They just assumed and attacked.

Now, personally I thrive on messing with irate idiots and I probably would have a field day but she's a better person than me. I know it hurt...
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I truly believe that social media and the onslaught of 24/7 news has been the gasoline thrown on our political divide. Depending on the news outlet we watch or listen to, we are force feed what we want to hear and believe. There is little news and more opEd. Then we use social media to grab the soap box and tell everyone "I'm RIGHT!", then turn off the PC and walk away without listening. Change has to be made at a personal level. I didn't vote for Trump, that being said, I'm trying to understand the choice of this election and I'm starting to understand things. I don't necessarily agree with the direction, but I understand why others voted for him.

It's easier for me to understand the other side once they have won and their anger dissipates so they can actually talk without screaming. I want to be better than opposition was while Obama was in office or better than the Trump protesters right now. I don't like the outcome either, nor would I have been proud of Clinton either, but we will get NO WHERE if we are all those crazy "soap box" evangelists spouting hatred and no one is listening. You'd be surprised how many angry Republicans I had a descent conversation with, once they realized I was not trying to bash them.

Have some civility people.....both on the PC and off. It will make a WORLD of difference.
 
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MAKG1 said:
Yes, but many of the affected people did not break the law. It's not just immigrants. Not even close, really.
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Also have to realize that entering a country illegally is in fact "illegal" and does have grounds for deportation no matter who they are. So by law, the government can ship them south if they're not here legally.

If DT lost there would be outrage, If HC won there would be outrage. You can't please everyone. Rioting and acting like a bunch of zoids doesn't fix anything.
 
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