Should I always use full call sign?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
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CC268
Hey guys,

So yesterday I was doing full stop taxi backs, short field take offs, soft field take offs, touch and goes, etc. So I originally call up tower and say:

"Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D is at runway 21 ready for touch and goes"

However, after establishing what I will be doing (touch and goes, full stop taxi back, etc) do I need to always be formal and say, "Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D (whatever I have to say)"?

Especially on full stop taxi backs it seems to be a bit inefficient to taxi off the runway, and then contact tower and say the same thing over and over "Scottsdale Tower, clear of runway 21, ready to taxi back to 21". My instructor said it was fine to just say "54D ready to taxi back to 21".

Is it appropriate to start out by saying "54D (say intentions)" after you have established communications with tower"? Seems like when your in the pattern for a good hour practicing it makes sense to be short and concise since tower is well aware that your doing touch and goes, etc...
 
Always use full ID on first contact. After that you can use the short version used by the tower or whoever you are communicating with. They will typically respond with the last three of your tail number and you can continue communicating with the same three. In your case 54D.

Edit - As Sac Arrow stated, they will typically use your aircraft type and the last 3. So Skyhawk 54D would be appropriate if that is how they referred to you on the response.
 
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Stingray Don said:
Always use full ID on first contact. After that you can use the short version used by the tower or whoever you are communicating with. They will typically respond with the last three of your tail number and you can continue communicating with the same three. In your case 54D.
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Yea I knew that, but lets say I have made initial contact and I am doing touch and goes - I then decide I want to make this one a full stop - can I just say "54D we'd like to make this a full stop" or do I need to say, "Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D would like to make this a full stop"?
 
Well, it should be "Skyhawk 54D." You can drop the prefix or the make/model, but not both.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I knew that, but lets say I have made initial contact and I am doing touch and goes - I then decide I want to make this one a full stop - can I just say "54D we'd like to make this a full stop" or do I need to say, "Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D would like to make this a full stop"?
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I'd just say 54D request full stop.
 
If there is little traffic it may be reasonable to use Skyhawk 54D, but with at a busy airport I would suggest using the entire tail number to eliminate any confusion. At a non-towered airport always use type (Skyhawk) and location ("Middlebury Traffic") at beginning and end to ensure clarity with other regional traffic. Middlebury Traffic Skyhawk 1234A downwind for 19 at Middlebury.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I knew that, but lets say I have made initial contact and I am doing touch and goes - I then decide I want to make this one a full stop - can I just say "54D we'd like to make this a full stop" or do I need to say, "Scottsdale Tower, Skyhawk 6254D would like to make this a full stop"?
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You can use the abbreviated form (as noted) until you terminate your radio contact. Now if you go to ground, then you should address them with the full call sign, and likewise if you go back to tower, on initial contact.
 
I was taught to refer to yourself the way the tower did. At my home field that's how it seem to work. Initial call up for me would be "Exec Tower, Skyhawk 8451X-ray blah blah blah". They usually respond with "51X-ray blah blah blah". For then on it's "Exec tower 51X-ray blah".

John
 
jordane93 said:
I'd just say 54D request full stop.
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Yea that is what I was doing and tower didn't seem to mind at all...

I always use my full call sign on initial contact with tower, ground, etc and then I end with 54D after that...but in this case I was doing so many landings and was always in the pattern that saying Scottsdale Tower everytime I wanted to talk to tower seemed unnecessary, hence the "54D request full stop"...
 
You should use your full call sign "Skyhawk 6254D" on initial call up. Don't abbreviate until ATC abbreviates it. Also the abbreviation should be "Skyhawk 54D" and not "54D."
 
Once the tower knows that you will be doing closed traffic with taxi-backs, it would not be unusual for him/her to instruct you to "remain with me" during the taxi back; and even if they are busy enough to have you switch to ground, after a couple of circuits, he will normally recognize your voice (and have eyes on your plane) and just have you use the abbreviated calls during the entire exercise.
And whenever in doubt, just ask HIM. The guys in ATC don't bite
 
Personally, I'd be tickled pink if you used some form of your callsign that makes it obvious you are who I gave the instruction to. You wouldn't believe how many of the "big iron" boys don't do this (SKW comes to mind.. @LDJones I'm looking at you). ;)
 
Alright I will use Skyhawk 54D if abbreviate from now on - thanks guys
 
I'll abbreviate it to my last two.

I only do full reg on initial call up
 
Retired tower guy here. Call call sign on initial, then abbreviate. If tower wants your full call sign for something else later, they'll ask for it. I suggest your CFI take you for a tower visit. Most controllers enjoy the visit, and ask them any questions you like.
 
mscard88 said:
Retired tower guy here. Call call sign on initial, then abbreviate. If tower wants your full call sign for something else later, they'll ask for it. I suggest your CFI take you for a tower visit. Most controllers enjoy the visit, and ask them any questions you like.
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Yea I suppose I ought to visit the mystical creatures in the tower some day...lol

I have 9 hours of flight time so far and have been getting much better at talking with ATC - for the most part I am very comfortable...but occasionally I screw up and sound like a real newb
 
Not a problem. Hopefully when you solo your CFI will instruct you to include "student pilot" with your call sign. Lets the controllers know and they'll be patient with you. Maybe. If you bring them an egg sammich w/ hot sauce sprinkled on it, then they'll be real patient. :D
 
Yea my instructor said I am not far from soloing so I will remember to do that when I solo! So far I have never used "student pilot"
 
Don't forget the egg sammiches. Make EggMan happy too! :D
 
The AIM tells us to use the full callsign unless ATC shortens it and then use what ATC uses.

Makes sense to me. Maybe some folks have been in situations with multiple aircraft with similar callsigns including identical 3 final characters, but I have. The callsign we use is for ATC's benefit, not just so we don't have to tire ourselves nedlessley by saying two extra letters or numbers.
 
mscard88 said:
Not a problem. Hopefully when you solo your CFI will instruct you to include "student pilot" with your call sign.
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I didn't use it and none of my students have either. Yeah, I know. It's recommended. But I'd prefer a student use it when it is needed rather than all the time. That's what I teach them.
 
I have 9 hours of flight time so far and have been getting much better at talking with ATC - for the most part I am very comfortable...but occasionally I screw up and sound like a real newb[/QUOTE said:
I have several hundred hours and still screw up sounding like a newb all the time!
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midlifeflyer said:
I didn't use it and none of my students have either. Yeah, I know. It's recommended. But I'd prefer a student use it when it is needed rather than all the time. That's what I teach them.
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I have my student use it on their solos. I don't have them use it when I'm flying with them.
 
We prefer you abbreviate your call sign. The only time we would normally use your full call sign after initial call-up is if we have similar sounding call signs on frequency.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The AIM tells us to use the full callsign unless ATC shortens it and then use what ATC uses.

Makes sense to me. Maybe some folks have been in situations with multiple aircraft with similar callsigns including identical 3 final characters, but I have. The callsign we use is for ATC's benefit, not just so we don't have to tire ourselves nedlessley by saying two extra letters or numbers.
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I've heard ATC using abbreviated callsigns with both 52G and 53G in the pattern. They really shouldn't, and I'll use a full callsign no matter what if there is a similar callsign in contact. Even if Tower doesn't pick up on that.
 
I always forget to say the type after I abbreviate in the pattern. I can see how its needed as some call signs can also match headings.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I didn't use it and none of my students have either. Yeah, I know. It's recommended. But I'd prefer a student use it when it is needed rather than all the time. That's what I teach them.
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I used it at first, then stopped after the first few flights as it became very cumbersome and often led to unnecessary hand-holding. But I did run into one Detroit Approach controller who was peeved that I didn't tell him I was a student pilot before he used the term "beacon code", which was a new one on me at the time, and in fact he went so far as to play a dirty trick on me when he handed me off to Pontiac tower --- told me to remain on the code, but told the tower I'd be squawking 1200. The confusion was easily straightened out, but still the point is that there are a minority of controllers who expect always to be told if they're dealing with a student pilot, and get upset if they unexpectedly have to take extra time with someone.
 
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