Shortcuts to an aviation career?

EvilEagle said:
At 45, he's well past the entry age for any military aviation program.
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Did i hear that the military was hurting for pilots, so much that they were thinking of letting them fly the airlines on active duty?

Wonder if that will start affecting the age requirements?

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tmyers said:
Did i hear that the military was hurting for pilots, so much that they were thinking of letting them fly the airlines on active duty?

Wonder if that will start affecting the age requirements?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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They already do that. EvilEagle is a Delta pilot (full time) and flys in the La ANG. I haven't heard of allowing a full time regular Air Force pilot being permitted to fly for an airline part time however.
 
tmyers said:
Did i hear that the military was hurting for pilots, so much that they were thinking of letting them fly the airlines on active duty?

Wonder if that will start affecting the age requirements?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
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I doubt they are hurting for willing pilots.....I have family that sez there are still plenty wanting to fly.
 
well ya....retention and "willing to pilot" are two different things.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
If they took more from UPT....the problem would go away....but only take 3-4 from each class and here we sit.
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Well, then you wouldn't be sticking to established standards and be pushing people through that have no business flying military aircraft. Seen that first hand and it's not the best approach.
 
Velocity173 said:
Well, then you wouldn't be sticking to established standards and be pushing people through that have no business flying military aircraft. Seen that first hand and it's not the best approach.
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there is no lack of supply....but they can create the problem by not training. My cuz is a back seater in 15's. He was #7 of his class of +40. The top handful got seats....the rest not so much. There is no lack of willing pilots....just not the slots. That's an easy fix IMHO.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
there is no lack of supply....but they can create the problem by not training. My cuz is a back seater in 15's. He was #7 of his class of +40. The top handful got seats....the rest not so much. There is no lack of willing pilots....just not the slots. That's an easy fix IMHO.
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Yes, but the problem is they need pilots now, not 3 years from now. Sending more through the pipeline than necessary is only going to exacerbate the problem. Pilots are complaining about not flying and being stuck in staff positions. Recruiting more pilots won't solve that problem. Apparently bonuses aren't solving it either.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I guess I'll be the dream killer. There is no way you can shortcut the crappy pay on the frontside of a pro flying career. You can shortcut the time it takes to get your first job by spending a bunch of money on accelerated training but once you get there the pay sucks. Some of the regionals are paying bonuses now to help recruit pilots but it isn't enough to replace what you have based on the impression I get from your initial post. The freight idea is creative but essentially impossible Imo. If you want to fly you'll take a hit on the pay for a good while.

Get your cfi and teach while keeping the day job. As your network grows you never know what might come along. But keep your job until it does.
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I was pretty sure this would be the answer, but it never hurts to ask. Seems odd that fixing robots pays better than ferrying human lives about, doesn't it?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Well, there is one way. Military aviator, but you take a chance. There is rarely a 100% guarantee when you sign on the dotted line tat you will get to fly.
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I went into the Navy recruiters office when I was 18 and told them I wanted to be a pilot. Guy told me it was impossible without going to college first, and that he had a great job for me! 20K re-enlistment bonus! Straight to E-4! Lots of School! Long story short, I believed the recruiter who was just trying to fill his quotas and here I am, 25 years later trying again.
 
Velocity173 said:
Yes, but the problem is they need pilots now, not 3 years from now. Sending more through the pipeline than necessary is only going to exacerbate the problem. Pilots are complaining about not flying and being stuck in staff positions. Recruiting more pilots won't solve that problem. Apparently bonuses aren't solving it either.
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So...maybe they can call up some old timers? :lol:
 
if you were willing to re-locate, and got the basic "for pay" tickets done, you might hook up with someone OCONUS, perhaps SE Asia, etc. Still gonna pay you squat, but you might build time fast. Do the instructing thing, get your name in the network, see if something comes up over the next 18- 24 months or so. Get the instrument, commercial, CFI, and ME rapidly, have those in your pocket in case someone mentions your name to someone who needs a pilot.

Be sure you want it - even plenty of military guys don't fool with flying for pay when they get out or retire. Heck, the bonuses are overrated - they are/are taxed, and might/might offset the lost equity and QOL disruptions they put up with. Good luck . . .
 
yakdriver said:
If it has taken over six months for you to just get your private I think you need to sit down and re evaluate. Don
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Due to my work load I missed 2 1/2 months right in the middle. Before that I was only going once a week. Since then I'm scheduling 2 times per week. Weather in Michigan sucks at the moment so that is also prolonging things. I work second shift, and I'm not the schools only student. I still only have 32 hours, I should be done with PPL in 50. I don't think that's bad, considering I basically started over after my absence.
 
Everskyward said:
Options 1-2 are going to cost a lot of money up front. You are proposing to do charter and/or cargo in small piston airplanes in Michigan. Do you know if there is even a market for that? As far as option 3 goes, are Caravans or TBMs used by operators in your area? I would talk to them first before spending money on your own training. Also, these jobs will not even approach 6 figures. I agree with most of the others and think that option 4 is the most logical choice. Is there a way for you to cut back on your present work schedule without giving up too much in the way of money, in order to have more time for flying?
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Unfortunately my work schedule isn't up to me. Even if I could, the overtime is paying for the flying. :)
 
If it is any comfort, I know a gent that spent the $100K with one of the Profession Pilot Schools in the Phoenix area and has been flying for NetJet for the past 10 years.... Walked out of the class room (figuratively) and right into the NetJet office and had a job..

Like you it was a mid-career change; however, there were no kids, mortgage, etc....
 
orange said:
You'll need a minimum of 1500 hours to even apply for a regional. At 45, with family that depends on you and not even private yet, I'd say enjoy the weekend flights in the 172 or Cherokee, and forget about the airline career. You're a few days late and a few dollars short (since you mentioned getting whatever ratings you can afford). The guys who have done in in their 40's and 50's are guys who are financially secure and not need to worry about being able to afford to get their ratings.

And there's that other thing... can you even be a good pilot? Not everybody can make it. If you're taking a long time to knock out the private, it only gets harder.
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Yes, I can be a good pilot. I can be good at anything, really. Can I be exceptional? Have to try to find out!;) Nice pick up on the afford thing. I have a short term leech problem, but it will get better in 3 years. I expect that it will take about that long to build up to 250.
 
Ventucky Red said:
If it is any comfort, I know a gent that spent the $100K with one of the Profession Pilot Schools in the Phoenix area and has been flying for NetJet for the past 10 years.... Walked out of the class room (figuratively) and right into the NetJet office and had a job..

Like you it was a mid-career change; however, there were no kids, mortgage, etc....
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I'm hopeful the wife will land a nice teaching job. :p We'll see. That is an option I've considered.
 
msmith3972 said:
Civil Air Patrol? I never thought of that... Thanks!
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Go ahead and get you uniforms and wings too. Just drive to an Air Force base and let them know you're going to be an officer in CAP and need to go to the BX and gear up.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
That sounds awesome as hell. I volunteer for scout helicopters. I'll be the bait for the guns. Where do I sign up?
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Lol! Well the scout mission has finally become obsolete. Seen those guys taking rounds first hand...not for me man!
 
yakdriver said:
If it has taken over six months for you to just get your private I think you need to sit down and re evaluate. Don
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This. ^ With a 6 figure income you should have the financial wherewithall to get PPL in 6 weeks tops. I did it in 1 month, making on the low end of 5 figures. And worked a full time job.
 
bluerooster said:
This. ^ With a 6 figure income you should have the financial wherewithall to get PPL in 6 weeks tops. I did it in 1 month, making on the low end of 5 figures. And worked a full time job.
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What was your award for winning the PPL race?
 
Velocity173 said:
Join CAP. You can be a 45 yr old LT. Just like being in the military but without a commitment. :D
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And without the pay. And in small single engine aircraft.

While there are some formal similarities to military, it isn't military, and not everyone participates in the military stuff more than they have to. I'd go so far as to say most don't, with the exception of some retired military. We have to wear some sort of uniform to fly the CAP aircraft, so we do. But some of those bear more resemblance to FEMA than USAF.

I'd say it's more like a poor-man's 135 operation (complete with dispatch, checks and OpSpec -- no pee tests, though). Once again, without the pay. And some of the missions are exempt from 14 CFR 61.113. Not all of them, though.
 
Well, pretty much as expected. Lots of great advice, and I appreciate all of it. Like any other profession, it's experience and/or who you know.
 
bluerooster said:
This. ^ With a 6 figure income you should have the financial wherewithall to get PPL in 6 weeks tops. I did it in 1 month, making on the low end of 5 figures. And worked a full time job.
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Paying for the lessons isn't the problem. I work at night, sometimes 12 hours. For about 2 1/2 months I couldn't go at all, which basically made me start over. Not everyone's situation is the same, and taking longer in calendar time doesn't necessarily equate to lack of aptitude. If I had 80 hours I could see your point, maybe. And even then not so much. I talked to one instructor who said he won't sign off on PPL before 90 hours!
 
German guy said:
I, for myself, decided to keep my well paying office job and to use that to support my flying hobby. Part-time instructing is however something I will quite likely do in the future - for fun and as a retirement job.
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Same here. Fortunately, I like my engineering work, don't think I would enjoy being an aerial bus driver (no offense to the pro pilots here, just that's what it would be for me) or the related lifestyle. I came this close to signing on the dotted line to be a naval aviator when I was 21 (already had my PPL), but decided I was too much a free spirit for military discipline, and 35 years later I still think I made the right decision. I do plan on pursuing my CFI-SP ticket this year (no desire to spend the time or money on the commercial and instrument needed for a "full" CFI).
 
I've seen air ambulance FO spots with less than 1000 hrs required. Perhaps that's an option.
 
tmyers said:
Did i hear that the military was hurting for pilots, so much that they were thinking of letting them fly the airlines on active duty?

Wonder if that will start affecting the age requirements?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's what's in all the magazines (thinking about letting them fly for the airlines). IMHO we already have that (as someone stated) in the ANG. Big blue has made it's bed by making active duty so painful to be a part of that no one wants to be there. Even if they bump it to $48k/year, how many of your prime years are you willing to sacrifice to be gone 180-240 days a year in a non-flying job? (yes, the guys who take the bonus often get a year-long trip to the desert to make coffee for some general... it's awesome).

I don't see this changing the requirements to start UPT though. By 30, most of us are fairly sure who we are and we're not going to change that for anyone. It may be different in other communities but even the mil pilots (non-fighter) that transition to the ANG and become fighter pilots late in life - I've never met one that was legitimately "good". Hate to say it, some of them are friends of mine but not one of them is any good. Maybe there's someone out there that is, just my experience.

Far be it from me to say that the USAF won't make a decision when there's all the logic in the world saying to make a different decision. It's been done. Time will tell... meanwhile the mass exodus from AD continues!
 
msmith3972 said:
I talked to one instructor who said he won't sign off on PPL before 90 hours!
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I do hope you avoided this clown for a CFI! That's a ridiculous statement to make. When the hours and training are accomplished you go for the check ride. 90 hours, I've never heard of anything so appalling!
 
EvilEagle said:
That's what's in all the magazines (thinking about letting them fly for the airlines). IMHO we already have that (as someone stated) in the ANG. Big blue has made it's bed by making active duty so painful to be a part of that no one wants to be there. Even if they bump it to $48k/year, how many of your prime years are you willing to sacrifice to be gone 180-240 days a year in a non-flying job? (yes, the guys who take the bonus often get a year-long trip to the desert to make coffee for some general... it's awesome).

I don't see this changing the requirements to start UPT though. By 30, most of us are fairly sure who we are and we're not going to change that for anyone. It may be different in other communities but even the mil pilots (non-fighter) that transition to the ANG and become fighter pilots late in life - I've never met one that was legitimately "good". Hate to say it, some of them are friends of mine but not one of them is any good. Maybe there's someone out there that is, just my experience.

Far be it from me to say that the USAF won't make a decision when there's all the logic in the world saying to make a different decision. It's been done. Time will tell... meanwhile the mass exodus from AD continues!
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Thanks for the even handed response, I have learned to appreciate how level headed and thought out your responses are. My son recently resigned his commission from the navy. Two years in the Persian Gulf did something to spook him i think. Someday he will share. I truly appreciate what you guys do and have done for all of us.

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