Short distance IFR

cowman

cowman

Final Approach
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Cowman
Realistically, I'm probably waiting out the weather but I was just curious how one would do this in a real world situation.

Say you needed to ferry a plane between airports that are close together. For example KUIN -> KHAE or somewhere else where the approach for the destination is practically on top of the departure airport and weather conditions are below VFR minimums.

How would one go about filing that and working it out with ATC? Would your departure clearance have to include the initial waypoint/fix for the approach requested at the destination? Or would they vector you out somewhere and turn you around to start the approach?
 
How IFR is it? when I was at 4b9 we would go to BDL for fuel. 5 minutes by air. If it was just kinda scuzzy, SOP would be to call BDL tower, tell them you were rated and equipped and ask for special VFR clearance.

Years ago, don't know if they issue vfr anymore.
 
Well, I was gonna say just go at 700AGL, but you got that E surface area. Ask ATC for a special VFR, or just file and fly.
 
cowman said:
Realistically, I'm probably waiting out the weather but I was just curious how one would do this in a real world situation.

Say you needed to ferry a plane between airports that are close together. For example KUIN -> KHAE or somewhere else where the approach for the destination is practically on top of the departure airport and weather conditions are below VFR minimums.

How would one go about filing that and working it out with ATC? Would your departure clearance have to include the initial waypoint/fix for the approach requested at the destination? Or would they vector you out somewhere and turn you around to start the approach?
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You don't have to include the IAF but it can help in short flights. You might get cleared as filed. You might not.
 
eman1200 said:
file to GASEY or NOCNY
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This.

I hop over to DNV for fuel regularly, and do it on an ifr day if I can. I just file the iaf for the approach I want and they clear me direct as soon as I'm off. I do have the benefit though of controllers who know the area well. KC center might be less familiar with the smaller uncontrolled fields. CMI approach is happy to give vectors to final, but in my experience centers usually have you fly the full approach, so filing the iaf is probably good practice.

Actually short hops like that on ifr days can make for good training/ proficiency/ currency. I much prefer that to finding someone to safety pilot for me.
 
I've done this a few times to drop off my plane for maintenance or avionics work, KVGC--->KSYR or the reverse for the return. At KVGC, I have filed to a nearby VOR or waypoint far enough away to allow me to establish contact with ATC, or to the IAF of the approach at the destination. It really doesn't matter what I file, because I'm going to get a clearance and a void time over the phone and ATC will send me initially where it makes sense for me and them. (Currently they are routing all traffic direct to the SYR VOR as a starting point, regardless of direction of travel, but no one actually winds up there.) As soon as I can establish ATC contact, I get vectors for the approach at SYR. It's that simple. For the reverse trip, I get clearance on the ground, and ATC will give me vectors and then send me to the appropriate IAF as soon as I am out of the Class C. If there is no approach control, I suspect you will be hooked up with Center, who will likely do much the same as I have described.
 
Just file airport to airport. ATC will decide how you get there.
 
TommyG said:
Just file airport to airport. ATC will decide how you get there.
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That. I can’t remember the last time I filed to anything other than the destination. I may put some route points in if I know I’ll get them anyway but I can’t remember filing to an IAF for a long time and they haven’t kicked me out yet.
 
Jim K said:
I just file the iaf for the approach I want and they clear me direct as soon as I'm off..
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That's what I would do in this case, Quincy IL to Hannibal MO. That looks like one sleepy GA airport to another, with no big cities anywhere nearby. I would just decide which approach I want, and when I file I would specify a route with just one waypoint: the IAF for that approach.
 
TommyG said:
Just file airport to airport. ATC will decide how you get there.
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This. And if you don't want to be surprised, go to fltplan.com and punch in that plan, and they'll tell you if anyone else has filed that and what routing they got. (Obviously no help if no one's ever filed it before.)
 
TommyG said:
Just file airport to airport. ATC will decide how you get there.
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I prefer to make my PIC decisions and tell ATC what I want to do.
eman1200 said:
file to GASEY or NOCNY
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Absolutely.

@TommyG, how far out of your way do you want to go on a course of 223 to get to an IAF 9NM away on a course of 265?
 
Llewtrah381 said:
That. I can’t remember the last time I filed to anything other than the destination. I may put some route points in if I know I’ll get them anyway but I can’t remember filing to an IAF for a long time and they haven’t kicked me out yet.
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I typically do not file to an IAF, but I do on short flights where I know which approach I will use and it will save both time and communications for both me and ATC.

Not quite as short as this one, but I did that for an IFR practice session just a few weeks ago. The Center computer, being the Center computer, added a standard waypoint in the wrong direction that would add substantially to both time and distance (about 20 nm to a 40nm flight to an airport 20 nm away). I was cleared to my chosen IAF immediately once in the air.

upload_2023-6-29_8-32-16.png
 
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cowman said:
Realistically, I'm probably waiting out the weather but I was just curious how one would do this in a real world situation.

Say you needed to ferry a plane between airports that are close together. For example KUIN -> KHAE or somewhere else where the approach for the destination is practically on top of the departure airport and weather conditions are below VFR minimums.

How would one go about filing that and working it out with ATC? Would your departure clearance have to include the initial waypoint/fix for the approach requested at the destination? Or would they vector you out somewhere and turn you around to start the approach?
Click to expand...

I've done similar IFR flights. If you know what the MVA in that area is, you can file radar vectors, or if GPS equipped, file direct. It will be almost like IFR in uncontrolled airspace. You may reach the destination before ATC has you on radar. I would not file to an IAF unless there is a particular reason you want to fly that specific approach. If you don't care which approach, just file to the airport.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I typically do not file to an IAF, but I do on short flights where I know which approach I will use and it will save both time and communications for both me and ATC.

Not quite as short as this one, but I did that for an IFR practice session just a few weeks ago. The Center computer, being the Center computer, added a standard waypoint in the wrong direction that would add substantially to both time and distance (about 20 nm to a 40nm flight to an airport 20 nm away). I was cleared to my chosen IAF immediately once in the air.

View attachment 118542
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Ironically, I think your response aligns with my thinking for why I just file point to point, even nearby. The computer gets into the game semi-unpredictably so I’ve found it easier to just file point to point, get the clearance (typically on the ground), then (once airborne and checked in, if I got the clearance on the ground), request direct to whichever IAF I wanted.

There have been times I wanted to go practice the ILS at a nearby field and on the ground it looked like that would happen but once en route they change things to the RNAV for another runway. I’ve just never run into an up-side to filing to a fix yet - knock on wood…
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Ironically, I think your response aligns with my thinking for why I just file point to point, even nearby. The computer gets into the game semi-unpredictably so I’ve found it easier to just file point to point, get the clearance (typically on the ground), then (once airborne and checked in, if I got the clearance on the ground), request direct to whichever IAF I wanted.

There have been times I wanted to go practice the ILS at a nearby field and on the ground it looked like that would happen but once en route they change things to the RNAV for another runway. I’ve just never run into an up-side to filing to a fix yet - knock on wood…
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I guess we've had different experiences on that score.

So far (30 years or so) I've never had ATC refuse my desired approach to a nontowered airport. If we're talking towered, especially a busy one, I can see issues if you are requesting an approach to a different runway than the one in use.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I prefer to make my PIC decisions and tell ATC what I want to do.

Absolutely.

@TommyG, how far out of your way do you want to go on a course of 223 to get to an IAF 9NM away on a course of 265?
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You can put whatever you want, PIC or not ATC is gonna make the decisions under IFR.
 
TommyG said:
You can put whatever you want, PIC or not ATC is gonna make the decisions under IFR.
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Some yes, but not all. Definitely not choice of instrument approach to a nontowered airport. They will accommodate our choices if they can, so I'll continue to tell them what I want or need, and sometimes even say no to them.
 
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