She said "Let's just buy a King Air"

Frogs97

Frogs97

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Frogs97
We had to make a trip to College Station this weekend for a state swim meet. I had contemplated flying down there and using it as a way to stretch the family's XC legs. Planes weren't available for an overnight rental, so we drove instead. On our way back home I said I just wanted to swing by the FBO to see what it's like and try to get some of my aviation fix in. Astin Aviation is really nice and clean, and it kind of opened her eyes to what some of this might be like.

While we were out looking at the flight line, a King Air 350 came in and parked. Here's the ensuing conversation:

Her: "I guess those are super expensive, huh?"
Me: "That one? Yeah. But, some people swing the older 90 series planes."
Her: "Well, then why don't you just go get your ratings for that, and we can just get one of those."
Me: "<chuckle> Actually, the 90 series doesn't require type ratings, just need my multi and would want my instrument to be able to get into the flight levels.
Her: "Probably more stable than the ones we've been in, huh? And air conditioning?"
Me: "Yup."
Her: "Good, let's just do that, then."
Me: ":rockon:"

Even if I found a spectacular deal on an A90, I'm not in a position where I want to pay for the care and feeding of that plane. So that ain't happening. But, the only times we've been able to fly have been in the summer afternoons, and she's concerned about the heat and bouncing we've been experiencing in the 172 and Cherokee 180. Some of that goes away by flying in the morning and evenings, but we're in Texas ... 9:00am is already hot and bouncy in the summer. So the search is on for something a little more stable than the entry trainers, and a little (ok a lot) more affordable than a King Air!

Also quite certain there's a B-Kool in our future, too.
 
If you want the reall 411 on King Air C90 ownership and operation, go find Dave Siciliano how infrequently haunts this board. He has had one for several years now and uses it both in his business (large scale residential construction) and for pleasure. I had the opportunity in his aircraft during a Gaston's event in 2013 and it was very nice. Operated very well in and out of 3M0.
 
dans2992 said:
Drool.... What's the fuel burn/cruise speed?

Are you based near FFZ?
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Fuel burn - high. 25-27GPH
Cruise speed - high. ~240-ish at alt

No where near FFZ. Sorry
 
AggieMike88 said:
Doc; There has been a 1978 601P listed on the AOPA board for much less than that. http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=93383

Last posted price was $135K

Found out he posted it with a seller's rep, "Aerostar World". Aircraft details can also be found at this link.
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I watch Aerostar ads once in a while. It just gets me down. There's a poor plane on TAP with 16k hours for real cheap. Prolly fly just fine, but it's been used for hauling checks or something. With the drop in fuel price, they look more attractive, but I still can't justify it with my mission. It's a ton of plane for one or two people to motor around in.
 
God Bless Her. We need more women like that!!! :)
 
Your smart for wanting A/C in Texas. I did the VFR corridor under Houston on my way back from NC. I would have went around, but the airport is right on the west side of Houston, so went under it.... Biggest mistake ever, as it was late afternoon and 95+ in the cabin....
 
Okay, this is VERY IMPORTANT, while she is in favor GO OUT AND BUY AS MUCH PLANE AS YOU CAN!!!!

:D

Do it now before she changes her mind!
 
Im pretty sure I'll never hear the phrase "lets buy a King Air" from my wife.

I'd be pretty happy to hear 'Lets buy a 182' or 'Lets buy a Husky' or something like that!
 
My son wants a Challenger 604.
 
I agree with Henning. The 340 is a good family (2.8 kids) plane. Pressurized, air conditioning can be had, and fairly reasonable operating and maintenance costs for a light twin. It will cruise nicely in the flight levels.
 
If I were going to have a personal turboprop, I'd be more partial to the Commander. But, there is nothing wrong with a kingair 90
 
Fort Worth to College Station, TX -- would that be your typical mission?

It's only 174 miles driving. That's such a short distance, I don't see much point in buying a sizable plane to fly such a short trip, if the goal is just to avoid low-altitude bumps. You wouldn't be able to spend much time at an altitude above the bumps, even with turbocharging.
 
Man, I love the way y'all think! With only a PPL and a whopping 95 hours, though, I'm not going to be jumping right into any twin. Though Doc's offer for halfsies made me go out and look a bit!

I'm going to be looking at the single pistons for now. Probably something heavier and with more wing loading than the planes I've been flying. Maybe the Toga/Lance/Cherokee 6 family.
 
NoHeat said:
Fort Worth to College Station, TX -- would that be your typical mission?

It's only 174 miles driving. That's such a short distance, I don't see much point in buying a sizable plane to fly such a short trip, if the goal is just to avoid low-altitude bumps. You wouldn't be able to spend much time at an altitude above the bumps, even with turbocharging.
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No, this was just a one time deal. Our typical trips would be more of the TCU away games, or flying to one of the Disneys, variety.
 
Just so you know… you can get smaller aircraft with A/C. You just have to trade some useful load and turn it off just when you need it most (right before takeoff).

There is an Archer with A/C for rent near where I live. It's at a coastal airport, so it's not really all that necessary.
 
Frogs97 said:
Man, I love the way y'all think! With only a PPL and a whopping 95 hours, though, I'm not going to be jumping right into any twin. Though Doc's offer for halfsies made me go out and look a bit!

I'm going to be looking at the single pistons for now. Probably something heavier and with more wing loading than the planes I've been flying. Maybe the Toga/Lance/Cherokee 6 family.
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100-150 hours is perfect time to get twin rated. No bad habits, and willing to learn. Although the Aerostar is near the top of the twin heap.
 
One of the happiest days of my life was when Mary turned to me and snapped "Why don't you just buy an airplane!"
:)

This happened after the rental plane was broken...again...after we had moved heaven and earth to get the kids out of school, the business covered, the grandmas lined up, yada yada...

Re: Air conditioning in Texas. We discovered the cure to heat was to get a plane that could quickly climb into the cool air aloft. It also helps to base your plane at a non-towered airport with no delay for departure.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Re: Air conditioning in Texas. We discovered the cure to heat was to get a plane that could quickly climb into the cool air aloft. It also helps to base your plane at a non-towered airport with no delay for departure.
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This. It's the relatively budget-friendly way to deal with the heat. If you're flying at 5,000 feet in Texas in summer it's still hot. The real coolness is up above 10k so get an airplane that won't take all day to get you there.

To really avoid bumps you'll want access to the teens and even Class A. I travel in Texas a lot and we're usually sitting pretty at 11k or 12k, but we occasionally go up to Class A to really haul a$$ and stay smooth and cool.

My vote would be for something turbo. Turbo just makes so much sense in piston aircraft.
 
petrolero said:
This. It's the relatively budget-friendly way to deal with the heat. If you're flying at 5,000 feet in Texas in summer it's still hot. The real coolness is up above 10k so get an airplane that won't take all day to get you there.

To really avoid bumps you'll want access to the teens and even Class A. I travel in Texas a lot and we're usually sitting pretty at 11k or 12k, but we occasionally go up to Class A to really haul a$$ and stay smooth and cool.

My vote would be for something turbo. Turbo just makes so much sense in piston aircraft.
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Yes... You've practically got to be in the flight levels in Texas this time of year before it is cool!
 
Cirrus SR22t G5 or Diamond DA42-VI Twin Diesel
 
JCranford said:
I'd be pretty happy to hear 'Lets buy a 182' or 'Lets buy a Husky' or something like that!
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I was happy with let's buy a Navion and then about ten years later "Put in whatever avionics you want."
 
Malibu or a Malibu/Jetprop.

Pressurized, air conditioned, easy to fly, very nice cabin, etc.
 
jesse said:
Malibu or a Malibu/Jetprop.



Pressurized, air conditioned, easy to fly, very nice cabin, etc.
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I'd love a Malibu. I'm thinking of an older Malibu, not the Mirage. The older ones have longer range and can be run LOP, I believe.
 
dans2992 said:
I'd love a Malibu. I'm thinking of an older Malibu, not the Mirage. The older ones have longer range and can be run LOP, I believe.
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I'm fortunate enough to get to fly a '86 Malibu. It has the STC Continental TSIO-550 (versus the stock 520). We run it LOP and it's incredibly efficient that way. Climb high and you can do 200 KTAS LOP at 15 gph (maybe a bit less than that). You can certainly run it hard if you wanted to and pickup another 15 knots but it's totally not worth it. The engine is VERY happy and very smooth LOP plus the cylinder temps stay much happier while LOP.

The newer Mirage's with the 540 I understand are not run LOP..and as a result I too would not want one.
 
You'd look cool in a Duke.
 
jesse said:
The newer Mirage's with the 540 I understand are not run LOP..and as a result I too would not want one.
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You can run the newer ones LOP. Many don't but it can be done.
 
A friend used to have a beech 90. He had had a twin commanche and a shrike before this. Lots of hours. I had a strip beside my home, grass, mowed , 2200 feet, wires at one end , house at other. He had wife and pal on board , landed easily , had breakfast and took off later with room to spare. He explained the army had liked them for this ability and purchased many of them over the years, vip transport, training, etc. ( he was, primarily, in the inheritance business.)
 
dans2992 said:
What's the downside?
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Well I'm certainly no expert but I've heard the ignition timing in the Lycoming vs the Continental is quite different and not ideal for LOP. So the gains are not as dramatic as with the malibu and at the end of the day not worth the hassle/risks of making a mistake compared to the small fuel savings and associated loss of TAS.
 
C340 is a beauts machine, but so is the Malibu... Sheesh... Seneca/Saratoga to start and go from there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
How bout a 310? I always liked them a lot. Hennings could have been the answer, but alas, it's toast.
 
dans2992 said:
What's the downside?
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Well the main thing is they don't typically run anywhere near smooth enough to get far enough LOP to get the LOP benefits.

The TSIO-550 in my friend's Malibu is incredibly smooth LOP. The trick is to get there "quick" as you're going to drive temperatures up rapidly if you spend much of any time looking for the peak. Best to do it with a "big pull" to about the spot where you know you need to be. You'll instantly see the cylinder temperatures trickling their way down, the engine will sound very happy, and life is good.

All that said, I have not flown a PA-46 with a TSIO-540. Only the TSIO-550-C...which demands you run it LOP...and does so very happily.

As to the "comfort" for passengers in the Cessna Twins versus a Malibu. I think you'll find them happier in a Malibu. The pressure differential is considerably better.

Malibu max pressure diff: 5.5 psi
Malibu Cabin Altitude @ FL250: 8,000 ft

Cessna 340 max pressure diff: 4.2 psi
Cessna 340 Cabin Altitude @ FL250: 11,100 ft


8,000 ft and I'm a happy camper.
11,100 ft and I'm not feeling so good.
 
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At 97 hrs., you're a looooooonggggg way from any of these planes. Focus on the instrument training and fly a lot, like two or three times a week. If you are looking at twins and King Airs, buy a trainer for your instrument training and then sell it after the get the rating. You will know what to move up to at the right time.
 
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