Sedona Airport Under Attack - Spread the Word!
- Thread starter SCCutler
- Start date
What problem is being addressed by a media poll?
fgcason
En-Route
911: What's your emergency?
anti-airport person: I"m dying, heart attack in progress. death coming soon. Send helicopter to air lift to the hospital.
911: Helicopter is on the way... Oh wait, the airport with the helicopters was closed by a bunch of whiney people who moved next to the airport and complained about the helicopters and airplanes. Hold on.... A medivac helicopter is on the way, it'll be there in 6 hours and 56 minutes. We will call back in 6 hours and 45 minutes to ask permission from all your neighbors for it to get near your house and save your winey butt. Have a nice death. Click.
This type of attitude is why we lose airports, we stick our heads in the sand over the problems we cause and believe that we have the right to aviate as we please. There are always nut jobs and I'm not talking about nut job issues; I'm talking about issues like noise and lead, you can pshaw all you want about it, but we are so far in the minority, we need to take heed and regulate ourselves, or as the FAA said to to the experimental community, "You need to fix this problem or we will, and you won't like it."
We'll end up with mufflers hanging off our airplanes and prop speed restrictions at a minimum, in the mean time we will face greater and greater resistance and antipathy from society in general.
BTW, using public service flights to defend GA is a non starter. We could be like Indonesia where there is NO GA, doesn't exist outside of a hand full of flying club planes for people with a lot of pull. If you want to have a plane in Indonesia you basically have to put it onto lease back with a charter operator. All aviation is commercial or government.
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GCA319
Cleared for Takeoff
Welcome to the Southwest...
cavmedic
Line Up and Wait
The same type of people constantly **** and moan over KPTW. These idiots move into a development on a golf course,across from the airport, complain about the roads not being finished, when they get told the municipality will not pick up the bill, they switch and complain about the airport , the medevac helicopter based there and everything else under the sun.
Can't wait to hear them ***** about the EAA fly in next month.
poadeleted21
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Northwest too, we got one who's claiming that methane from the sewage treatment plant can cause airplane engines to die then lawn dart into schools. And apparently, adding 600' to a 3600' runway is going to cause Northwestern Montana to become the next LAX.
Having lived 50' from a railroad track in Memphis, under the final approach path for KMEM and now under left downwind for the most used RWY at KMSO, there is nothing anyone is ever going to tell me about noise that I will take seriously unless they're living in a hangar with a running Chinook. I lived under LDW for MSO for 2 years before I realized I was under the traffic pattern. Even with the regional jets, you have to be paying attention to notice they're over your head. If you're inside, you can't hear em'.
That train on the other hand, it shook the house and would drown out the TV for half an hour.... I never did get used to it and did something crazy... I moved. Now people here are complaining about the railroad track they moved next door to (Can't raise their kids, can't let them go outside yadda yadda yadda) and actually calling for studies to move it... Yeah, right, the sun will freeze over before that happens.
Then we have the genius who built a house on the 18th hold of the local golf course and is bitching about ....wait for it..... golf balls in his yard. The typical "Can't raise my kids because I can't let them go outside and play"
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cavmedic
Line Up and Wait
I grew up 1/4 mile ( no pun intended) from an NHRA drag strip. The noise from the Top Fuel cars and Jet Cars would shake the windows , move things on shelves. Half the time never really paid any attention to it . Just a sound of spring / summer.
But same thing, people moving down from NYC griping about the smell of the farms ( who's field their development was once apart of ) , looks of barns , sound of the drag strip , sounds of kids riding their ATV's in the fields ........
But same thing, people moving down from NYC griping about the smell of the farms ( who's field their development was once apart of ) , looks of barns , sound of the drag strip , sounds of kids riding their ATV's in the fields ........
MDeitch1976
Line Up and Wait
I voted. Good luck.
Here around KGAI, the community of Montgomery Village around the airport has people in it who complain about the airport that has been there longer then their house. New people move in, and complain about it as well. In today's day and age, people should look at a site like google maps, and expand or search nearby for things they do not want around them.
Here around KGAI, the community of Montgomery Village around the airport has people in it who complain about the airport that has been there longer then their house. New people move in, and complain about it as well. In today's day and age, people should look at a site like google maps, and expand or search nearby for things they do not want around them.
Captain
Final Approach
people complain about the looks of barns?
My cousin lives near Rockford, Illinois on a farm. She just bought the place a year or two ago to start a family with her husband. I was visiting last summer and commented on the barn that is on their property. Said it looked nice and mused about what it would cost to build it now.
She replied you can't build them anymore. You could but it would cost near a million dollars today with specialty lumber shipped from the other side of the world. That sort of struck me. As a mile marker of humanity we have passed the barn era. Too many people and not enough trees to build something simple like a barn.
: (
Complaining is all that most people know how to do well. It all boils down to American Freedom. We are all raised to think that we matter as individuals and we live in a Me Me Me culture. Everybody thinks they have the right to have things the way they want them. That's why this country is in the mess it's in, everybody thinks they're a Chief.
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cavmedic
Line Up and Wait
Yup, this one HOA pressured the Township to force the home owner to demolish the barn because it was an eyesore , when they looked out the BACK windows of their homes.
JesseD
Line Up and Wait
I guarantee the airport was there prior to Ms. Monday's home. Read the comments. Typical elitist garbage of forcing THEIR will on everyone else.
http://www.change.org/petitions/save-the-sedona-sanctuary
It's not elitist, it's NIMBY. NIMBY knows no "class".
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Agreed!
cavmedic
Line Up and Wait
Tell me about it . Grew up on 10 acres in a farm house. The area was full of them at one time... Sadly they are becoming few and far in between in that section of the County.
It's the greedy lazy farmers fault for selling off all the farm land to real estate developers. The natives had it right, no concept of ownership of land. Take what you need and leave the rest.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
It would be nice if US airplanes would incorporate mufflers to reduce the noise. Currently, the US is the only country not to have noise restrictions on airplanes. There is no reason to have straight pipes on airplanes engines anymore. This is the problem with sticking with old technology by making certification so expensive it keeps innovation in the closet.
Rotax engines have mufflers and are very quiet. European countries demand it.
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Because it would cost more than a gallon of AvGas and pilots are as cheap as it gets. They don't screw anything up really except the looks and have been in use for well over a decade in more civilized parts of the world.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, back pressure is a myth with today's technology, only needed on 2 stroke engines. Certification costing $$$$$$$ is the problem.
Pilots put on headsets and could care less about disturbing people around them. We are the problem.
BTW, I have been to the Sedona Airport several times. As a pilot, a helo tourist, and as a Looky Lou while my bride was shopping. It is an amazing airport, with an approach that will get your attention.
Why can't we be proactive and reduce noise levels of existing aircraft so we can all just get along? Mufflers should be manditory.
When I fly over the Grand Canyon I must be at 11,000' to avoid disturbing campers due to morons flying Cessnas with no mufflers. My RV-12 can not be heard 1,500' Agl. Is that fair?
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bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
The real problem isn't exhaust. It's propellor tip speed on depature, in the repeated T&Gs.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Agreed, but most prop planes with fixed pitch don't come close to super sonic prop tip speed.
It is over flights of droning aircraft with no exhaust mufflers that is the problem.
Europe has had noise restrictions for decades hence the Rotax 912 with a muffler.
Some mufflers are the size of a soup can, others the size of a loaf of bread. Both of which would fit with IN the cowel of most certified airplanes. But certification costs too much to even try. Hence, we have petitions to close airports rather than reduce noise.
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jtheune
Ejection Handle Pulled
So what planes don't have mufflers? I did a quick search on exhaust systems and found this site:
http://www.wallcolmonoy.com/aviationgrp/NicrocraftCatalog.pdf
It shows the exhaust systems for both Cessna and Piper products and from the blowups of the systems I saw mufflers on the 150, 172 and 182 Cessna and the Piper PA-28 of various engine sizes.
http://www.wallcolmonoy.com/aviationgrp/NicrocraftCatalog.pdf
It shows the exhaust systems for both Cessna and Piper products and from the blowups of the systems I saw mufflers on the 150, 172 and 182 Cessna and the Piper PA-28 of various engine sizes.
No, back pressure is a myth with today's technology, only needed on 2 stroke engines. Certification costing $$$$$$$ is the problem.
Pilots put on headsets and could care less about disturbing people around them. We are the problem.
No such problem, mufflers are already certified for nearly everything.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Okay, then we ARE the problem.
Megs Field would still be open if pilots using it would have installed mufflers.
AdamZ
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Adam Zucker
up around 84% no problem
Okay, then we ARE the problem.
Yep...
Jaybird180
Final Approach
Funny related audio clip
Tower talking to heavy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ola4nK0opeA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Tower talking to heavy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ola4nK0opeA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
That's what I thought. Airplane engines don't sound near loud enough to be without mufflers.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Not true. The problem with Meigs was Richie Daly, not noise. It could have been a sailplane port and he would have dug big Xs in the runway.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
How do I vote on the poll? I can't find it.
Looks like they shut it down at 93.3% Not a Problem. It was in the left pane with [Vote] and [Results] buttons. Now only the [Results] button is available. To see the percentage, after selecting [Results], pass your mouse over the graphic.
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Thanks AP,
There is a reason they call Sedona "The most scenic airport in America"
http://sedonaairport.org/noise
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Currently it is 93.4% for the airport, and I can still see the poll as active (clear my cookies, can vote again).
OK. Clearing cookies probably the answer. I can see the [Vote] button on my lab machine, but it is so restricted that I cannot vote from it.Currently it is 93.4% for the airport, and I can still see the poll as active (clear my cookies, can vote again).
Hate clearing cookies on the machines I work from.
hopmedic
Cleared for Takeoff
Me, too. I just deleted the two cookies that the site places. On some refreshes there is a third from what I think is an ad, but don't remember what it was called.
I just erased the cookies that were placed on the date I visited the Web page. Then I set the cookie settings in Internet Explorer to "Prompt," and when it prompted, I declined cookies from that site and clicked the box to always do the same for that site. (In IE 8, go to Tools, Internet Options, Privacy, Advanced.)
Considering how many votes it takes to change the results by 0.1%, at this point I suspect that the number of votes cast exceeds the population of Sedona by a wide margin!
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