SECRET Clearance

paflyer

paflyer

Final Approach
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So I'm "pursuing other opportunities" and I've come across some interesting ones but they require "eligibility to obtain Secret Clearance."

Not a fan of being investigated by the Feds but maybe I'm just paranoid about being charged with perjury by our overly enthusiastic DoJ because I messed up a date of employment of a job I had 30 years ago or something just as meaningless.

Anyone gone through the ringer? What do they want to know? Lie detector? Waterboarding?

Judging by the high level crooked assclowns running the government who have top secret and above clearances, what's the big deal, right? I even have an original birth certificate.
 
Not a big deal for me. Have to every 10 years, as a DOD civilian. Usual stuff, finances, marraiges, divorces, where have you lived for the last 25 years. 4 none Family references that will get an interview. Showed what a boring life I have lived. I never got interviewed as no questions came up. Fill out the form and answer truthfully as they already knew the answer to the question. Ever arrested? mean just that, even if it was dismissed. We had a few at work that got fired as they could not pass.

seperatly, I was interviewed for a guy that rented from me who was applying for a CIA black ops job. Took All of 10 minutes but it was still a face to face interview, not a phone call.

They expect minor memory mistakes. They are looking more for people trying to hide stuff and other red flags, patterns of behavior. Again, they already know everything.

Hope that this helps
 
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Where they start getting up in your stuff on those SF86 ones is the foreign contacts. Go marry a mexican chick across the border and now half your family is illegal residents, or you brought back a korean from your unaccompanied tour like an idiot, those things complicate the adjudication of the clearance because they have to follow the rabbit hole. The second one would be huge financial problems, but we're talking about wage garnishments and big time IRS confrontations. Otherwise, it's a non-issue.
 
paflyer said:
Anyone gone through the ringer? What do they want to know? Lie detector? Waterboarding?
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Been through it several times. The paperwork is always the worst part, especially if you’ve lived at a number of addresses. @Morgan3820 gives great advice about filling out the form. If they want to know something more, they’ll ask.
 
Secret is fairly easy.

First, be truthful. That's key. Second, they are looking for corruptible things: like financial trouble, debt, accusations of affairs, history of dishonesty, etc. a few interviews, credit checks, criminal background check.

Secret requires minimal interviews. TS is much more in-depth including interviews with sources that the interviwer develops. Clearances above that may require polygraph.

Be truthful and the process should be straightforward.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Not a big deal for me. Have to every 10 years, as a DOD civilian. Usual stuff, finances, marraiges, divorces, where have you lived for the last 25 years. 4 none Family references that will get an interview. Showed what a boring life I have lived. I never got interviewed as no questions came up. Fill out the form and answer truthfully as they already knew the answer to the question. Ever arrested? mean just that, even if it was dismissed. We had a few at work that got fired as they could not pass.

seperatly, I was interviewed for a guy that rented from me who was applying for a CIA black ops job. Took All of 10 minutes but it was still a face to face interview, not a phone call.

They expect minor memory mistakes. They are looking more for people trying to hide stuff and other red flags, patterns of behavior. Again, they already know everything.

Hope that this helps
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Thanks.

Morgan3820 said:
They expect minor memory mistakes.
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That got Scooter a Federal sentence.

Morgan3820 said:
Again, they already know everything.
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I don't find that comforting!


Is the questionnaire online ?
 
Make sure you keep a copy of the form, both electronic and paper. Down the road you may need to fill out another form for a clearance, and it's handy to have the history. In theory, eQuip has the history and fills it in for updates, but I don't trust it.
 
Mine is almost a 1/2" thick, I've kept the last two in a safe deposit box. Hardest part is getting the address of the people you lived next to 10 years ago and both of you have moved and you don't keep in touch with them. Fortunately, I've filled out my last one because I will retire (again) before the next one is due.
 
Wow, there's stuff I wouldn't share with a potential employer (none of it "bad", just personal.)

And who do you use to verify self-employment?
 
Not a big deal. Higher clearances are more complicated. BTDT
 
For any clearance level, they care if you are in debt, have foreign interests (close family, financial interests, etc), ties to radical subversive groups/movements, criminal history, or substance abuse history. Those are the biggest risk factors for historical insider espionage. If you are a basically normal person, it isn't a big deal. Their investigation will verify that you aren't at risk for undue influence or bribery based on a lack of those things being part of your life.
 
Been thru this a ton of times. Funniest part is when my neighbors ask, “Your clearance up again?” after the investigators do another interview. My last interview was at a local coffee shop’s conference room:D.

Save every SF86 (as the Chinese have done after breaking into OPM and stealing everybody’s) so you can fill out the next one.

Cheers
 
My wife was interviewed because a friends son had applied for some government agency. When she was notified that they wanted an appointment for an interview, she was scared that it was something to do with her immigration and recent swearing in to be a US citizen. There is a small chance I might have led her to believe that....

I told her what to expect and gave her some examples of the type of questions she would be asked. I told her to ask for his ID if he did not offer it. The interview was at Taco Bell. She was laughing when she got home. She told me he made her feel very comfortable and the questions were not complicated. Basically he wanted to know if this person was a big partyer and did he talk a lot about himself, and did she think he is a trust worthy person.
 
paflyer said:
Wow, there's stuff I wouldn't share with a potential employer (none of it "bad", just personal.)

And who do you use to verify self-employment?
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OPM will send out a letter to your employer (you) which will contain your name and your full social security number and ask you to confirm or deny whether you employed (yourself) between date A and B. The only thing missing from the OPM letter is your mothers maiden name and the name of the first school you attended.
 
No sweat on exactitude - if you're unceratin of a date, just say so in the remarks, or note it as "approximate". They don't care if you are in debt, just if you are paying it. They'll ask, if they need more info/clarification, and they aren't looking to keel haul you for an honest mistake; just don't lie, and don't assume that a prior problem will automatically DQ you. Above secret, If your refernces are contacted, likely the guy doing the interview won't know what organization you are applying for.
 
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Is the form typically filled out with the HR office or is it "discrete", i.e., between the applicant and the feds?
 
Sundancer said:
No sweat on exactitude - if you're unceratin of a date, just say so in the remarks, or note it as "approximate". They don't care if you are in debt, just if you are paying it. They'll ask, if they need more info/clarification, and they aren't looking to keel haul you for an honest mistake; just don't lie, and don't assume that a prior problem will automatically DQ you. Above secret, If your refernces are contacted, likely the guy doing the interview won't know what organization you are applying for.
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Yeah, agreed. If you ever have to do the TS SSBI (and 5 year interval reinvestigations), they will interview you, and will be awkwardly obsessed with getting exact dates of employment/residence in the last 10 years, but it isn't a big deal if you just don't know exactly. As mentioned before, it is a good practice to save your SF-86's, but as of at least 2015, it is all saved and autofilled on the online format from your previous investigation which is super nice.

Also, since it is a common misconception (not pointing at you Sundancer), the only "above secret" is a TOP SECRET clearance. That is the maximum clearance level (or DOE/other agency equivalent) in the US system. There are handling and access compartments such as SCI, SAP (i.e. "Black programs"), and ACCMs, but those all live at SECRET or TOP SECRET depending on sensitivity, in terms of overall classification level. These restricted access programs are often thought of as "above top secret", but in reality, they are still TS at the most, but are just not General Service/GENSER.......ie random person with SECRET or TS baseline clearance does not have access without a demonstrated and vetted "need to know" to anything outside of GENSER.
 
I work for one of those places you're probably calling "interesting."

Haven't seen any bad advice in the posts above. They're all pretty much spot on. For me, the travel and where I hung my hat was the biggest issue since I had been working/traveling in some questionable places, all for the benefit of Uncle Sam. Regardless, they wanted some pretty detailed info, like which hotels I stayed in and what I did while I was there.

As mentioned above, the foreign contacts tends to give the investigators heart palpitations if they're from questionable areas. Free Europe probably won't raise the eyebrows too much, but someone from Syria will cause cardiac arrest.

The biggest thing is DON'T LIE!!! If you're caught in an intentional lie, it's doubtful that you'll get that clearance.
 
paflyer said:
Is the form typically filled out with the HR office or is it "discrete", i.e., between the applicant and the feds?
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The Facility Security Officer, or their designee if the company is big enough, will review the form before they submit to the Feds. They'er looking for stuff that you should correct before submission. Nobody else in the company should see it and once the investigation is complete the FSO must destroy or return to you any paper or electronic copies. (I always returned the paper ones because as has been said above, you want to keep one for next time.) If the FSO is HR, (small companies have people with multiple hats...) they CANNOT use anything on the SF-86 as part of their HR records or to take any employment action at all.

John
 
The guys I hang out with all have TS. The standard answer to the question "Have you ever seen him drunk?" is "Not that I remember."

My biggest heartburn with all this, is that I have seven brother and sisters and since the OPM data breach all of their info is now in Chinese hands and they are not happy with me.
 
It's been a long time but the secret was about four pages of general history (you had to submit five references who aggregate knew you over the past 15 years).
The TS is a longer history form (used to be about 20 pages, but is now a horrendous electronic thing that's apparently done by the same moron that designed MedXpress, one of the worse form UIs I've ever seen). The secret investigation seems to be done from the office. The TS investigators actually go out to former employers and references and the local police etc... and ask around about you.

Amusingly in 35+ years in the defense and intelligence industry, there was only once I told an investigator that I thought someone should NOT be issued a clearance. They gave it to him any way I believe.

Neither involves a polygraph by itself, though the TS investigation is a starting point for certain clearances that do require it.
 
Neighbor across the street worked for the Secret Service and then transferred to a postal inspector to be home more. In the past 12 years or so a guy knocked on the door asking questions about him, while he was still Secret Service. Thought it was funny, asking about a guy who is a Secret Service Agent. Suppose there was a reason for it though I'm sure.
 
paflyer said:
Anyone gone through the ringer? What do they want to know? Lie detector? Waterboarding?
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I don't know what these other guys are saying...they're making this out to nothing.

You have to go through torture training and they'll be shoving bamboo splints under your fingernails. Waterboarding is the nice part of it, but eventually you get used to the isolation. I still have scars from the electrical shock treatment and let's not talk about where some of that scar tissue is...it's a tender subject. But I can still have kids and still poop, so it's all good, right?
 
And remember that the clearance process was really designed with respect to the Cold War. Some of it is updated, but much of it relates to sdefending against state actors.

There is talk about including social media in the process, not sure if that is done yet or not. Social media is becoming a big part of the US Visa process, so I would expect it in clearances at some point.
 
bflynn said:
I don't know what these other guys are saying...they're making this out to nothing.

You have to go through torture training and they'll be shoving bamboo splints under your fingernails. Waterboarding is the nice part of it, but eventually you get used to the isolation. I still have scars from the electrical shock treatment and let's not talk about where some of that scar tissue is...it's a tender subject. But I can still have kids and still poop, so it's all good, right?
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I didn't mind the bamboo under the fingernails thing until they put your hands in lemon juice.
 
Anyone ever experience the "tied up in the chair with a lap dancer inches away" treatment? Hmmm?

Now that's torture....
 
mscard88 said:
Anyone ever experience the "tied up in the chair with a lap dancer inches away" treatment? Hmmm?

Now that's torture....
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A history of lap dances is a bigger red flag than a capital murder conviction.
 
bflynn said:
I don't know what these other guys are saying...they're making this out to nothing.

You have to go through torture training and they'll be shoving bamboo splints under your fingernails. Waterboarding is the nice part of it, but eventually you get used to the isolation. I still have scars from the electrical shock treatment and let's not talk about where some of that scar tissue is...it's a tender subject. But I can still have kids and still poop, so it's all good, right?
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Shh! You'll scare them away!
 
All the boxes on the form that deal with times, jobs etc. have an 'estimated' option. Unless you still have documentation to substantiate a particular date, just check the box.
 
Sac Arrow said:
Susceptibility to blackmail. Sex was used even more than drugs to get information out of GI's.
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Well hell, I participated in those activities when I served overseas and all they wanted was their fee. ;):)
 
bflynn said:
I don't know what these other guys are saying...they're making this out to nothing.

You have to go through torture training and they'll be shoving bamboo splints under your fingernails. Waterboarding is the nice part of it, but eventually you get used to the isolation. I still have scars from the electrical shock treatment and let's not talk about where some of that scar tissue is...it's a tender subject. But I can still have kids and still poop, so it's all good, right?
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Great, finally the truth!
 
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