Savvy MX Maintenance

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n1g1a

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ng1a
Our flying club of 3 single engine aircraft is looking to improve our maintenance program, and I was looking for any positive or negative opinions regarding the Savvy Maintenance program.
 
n1g1a said:
Our flying club of 3 single engine aircraft is looking to improve our maintenance program
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What specifically are you looking to improve with your maintenance program? At your level there may be other options available other than having a 3rd party manage your maintenance requirements.
 
Right now, availability and timeliness. We can manage the requirements though it will be nice to see if what a third party can offer. We do pay a lot for maintenance, so cost is not a driving factor. Otherwise piston-engine mechanics who can offer timely service has been difficult.
 
What type aircraft and annual hours?

My belief is that the #1 item in assuring aircraft availability is planning.

The actual INSPECTION of most “Club Type “ aircraft can be accomplished in about a a day and a half in the shop

depending on Crew Size.

Planned actions on items like mags, tires, and ADs might be best addressed on rainy days . Winter?

If the members write up discrepancies parts can be on hand and possibly addressed before an Inspection.




If all aircraft are the same a lot of down time can be prevented by having spares on hand.

Plugs, brake pads, tire/ wheels, mags can be swapped between flights rather than during the inspection.

Some of this is never done with light aircraft but is SOP with airlines and MIL.


What is the problem with current system?

Mechanic not available when needed?
 
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n1g1a said:
Right now, availability and timeliness.
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Finding a timely mechanic has become an increasingly difficult task especially in certain locations. One option that has worked for me in helping owners out is to expand the service area when looking for a mechanic or shop. Since you now manage the mx requirements and you'd be willing to pay $$ for a 3rd party perhaps instead offer pay a "retainer" to one of those distant shops to include a timely service agreement? Good luck.
 
I used Savvy for two years. They weren't much help at all. And they sure won't do anything to help with availability and timeliness.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
I used Savvy for two years. They weren't much help at all. And they sure won't do anything to help with availability and timeliness.
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As the pool of mechanics decreases, the planning will have to be very sharp indeed to keep flight school airplanes flying. It tends to weed out the small flight schools who have to contract for maintenance, in favor of the larger schools that can justify full-time maintenance staff.

Getting maintenance done well, no shortcuts, no flying stuff until it quits, can be sound economy. Downtime in between inspections due to worn-out mags or vacuum pumps or alternators costs a whole bunch and disappoints the students.
 
Savvy looks like it’s primarily oriented toward private owners who aren’t hands-on with maintenance and don’t have the time, or the inclination, to learn it. With everything out there online - articles, forums like this one, and social media groups - you can get a great deal of the knowledge side of ownership and managing maintenance. I know a few pilots who really know almost nothing about what’s under the hood, and if something isn’t running just right, they just take it to their A&P and basically say “call me when it’s ready”. They never research and order parts themselves, don’t understand the procedures and thus don’t know understand the time some things take, and often don’t even know what actually is required (SB vs AD for example).

I think for guys like that, Savvy could be a benefit. For the guys who grok ownership, they can pretty much handle being their own director of maintenance and do better overall than subbing it out.
 
n1g1a, do you know how to use a spreadsheet?

If so there's a number of spreadsheet examples to predict maintenance and budgets.
 
ateamer said:
Savvy looks like it’s primarily oriented toward private owners who aren’t hands-on with maintenance and don’t have the time, or the inclination, to learn it. With everything out there online - articles, forums like this one, and social media groups - you can get a great deal of the knowledge side of ownership and managing maintenance. I know a few pilots who really know almost nothing about what’s under the hood, and if something isn’t running just right, they just take it to their A&P and basically say “call me when it’s ready”. They never research and order parts themselves, don’t understand the procedures and thus don’t know understand the time some things take, and often don’t even know what actually is required (SB vs AD for example).

I think for guys like that, Savvy could be a benefit. For the guys who grok ownership, they can pretty much handle being their own director of maintenance and do better overall than subbing it out.
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I think the savvy pitch includes engine monitor data interpretation. Seems like the local APs are plenty busy and don’t have time to figure it out if they are unfamiliar.
 
I used the owner assist option for a year. It was fine for a double check of what I was hearing, the log analyzer was cool, but I didn’t see any real return on the investment. I think for a new owner going through an annual squawk list of $10k they’d be an asset. Finding good shops, coordinating work, etc. I I know they are good for Cirrus and not useful for Mooneys. Not sure if you will get a straight answer from then on your typical Cessnas and Pipers.

In your shoes, I’d check out all the shops in the nearby area. Meet the manager and get a sense of are they running a business or a mechanic scraping by and missing project planning and P&Ls skills, look at the work areas for organization and efficiency, and inquire about their backlog, hiring ability, etc. I doubt any will write a contract but make your intentions clear and shake hands on it: they will get all your mx if you get priority when needed, and they can schedule the rest in advance.

The shortage of mechanics is a problem by me such that my on field shop stopped taking on new customers. And the four IAs I know personally, two quit and two are over 60 and are retiring soon.
 
masloki said:
two are over 60 and are retiring soon
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This will be a driving force for the maintenance side especially over the next year or two. While there's been a slow but steady decline in experienced mechanic numbers over the past years, next year may see a marked increase in the decline due to retirements from what I've seen and heard. I think intially the decline will be at the regional 135/145 levels however the resulting open slots will provide an opportunity for current Part 91 mechanics to move into those slots and remain in the same area leaving more private GA owners underserved.
 
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Savvy has been good at finding a shop for an AOG problem, or a prebuy across the country. But I wouldn’t use them for day to day management unless I truly didn’t have time or interest in anything maintenance wise. Even then, if you identify a shop to work with long term, you would probably get just as much if not more maintenance management advice from the shop as from Savvy.
 
Tokirbymd said:
Savvy has been good at finding a shop for an AOG problem, or a prebuy across the country. But I wouldn’t use them for day to day management unless I truly didn’t have time or interest in anything maintenance wise. Even then, if you identify a shop to work with long term, you would probably get just as much if not more maintenance management advice from the shop as from Savvy.
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:yeahthat:


I used Savvy to manage the pre-buy when I bought my Beech Musketeer, then I used Savvy Mx for the first year. They weren't much help. The A&P that was assigned to me wasn't familiar with Musketeers, and I received much more useful support from the type club. (In fact, I found myself downloading materials from the club and sending them to Savvy's A&P. I should have charged a counsulting fee...) Savvy was unable to provide any information about the shops and A&Ps already working on my field, of which there are several.

By the time I was due for my annual, I'd already met and used a couple of independent A&P/IAs and had panel work done by the on-field avionics shop. Savvy just wasn't adding any value, so I dropped Mx. For me, doing owner-assisted maintenance, doing some of my own "preventive" maintenance, with a good type club to support me, and knowing good mechanics on my field, it's just not worth paying Savvy.

Having said that, I do have Savvy breakdown assistance because if I get stranded at some distant location I won't have any knowledge of local shops and I might not be able to remain onsite to manage repairs.

@n1g1a , if your club members are willing to be involved in hands-on maintenance (maybe have occasional club workdays to do oil changes, etc.?) and do a little research and track ADs and so on, I don't think Savvy will be much help for you. OTOH, if your people want to stay out of it and have close to turn-key maintenance, then Savvy might be worthwhile.

Your money, your choice.
 
A local club has been around for about 60 years.

Monday is Work Night.

Some members have become very proficient with tasks such as open/ close, oil and tire changes.

Some “Mechanically Declined” choose to bring pizza or just hand over tools.

There are some that work closely with the Tech on addressing the non- PM items.

Determining what parts are needed and obtaining them in a timely manner is

not suited for someone to do once in a while. A Club Supply Officer can become familiar

with the needed references as well as the various sources.


Your goal should be to increase aircraft availability by maximizing the efficiency of

the Tech Staff. Using FaceTime, cell pix and vids can drastically reduce troubleshooting time.

This is particularly true if the Tech has to drive to the scene.

“ A picture is worth etc etc”.
 
Busch is great and knowledgeable. Some of their staff is good. One of their mechanics strikes me as arrogant and that’s precisely one of the flying attitudes i avoid. Sadly I would not consider savvy because of the potential of being assigned to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If you are assigned to him, then ask to be reassigned.
 
i wouldnt worry about arrogant or not if he's good and knowledgeable. I wouldnt care if I had an issue if he knew how to diagnose and give me the best option to fix. . .
 
As a new pilot, I used Savvy for the long distance pre-buy on my 206. It was nice to have someone in my corner as a novice. I have kept the maintenance service through two annuals since, and I have been pleased. When I have questions or need help with issues that come up they are both knowledgeable and responsive. They saved me $4k on my las annual by finding an out of the way shop that wanted the work. I have been generally pleased.
 
I know this is old, but I want to echo what others have said. I paid for the Mx plan and have found it to be of little value. They were of no use holding the shop accountable for the annual. They don't include my plane or engines in their "report cards," and the one time I asked them to analyze my borescope images they just flat out wouldn't do it. So, all that to say - Mike has given us GA guys a lot of good info, but Savvy's efforts to help people manager their plane is a failure, to date.
 
We fix Comanches. Savvy doesn't have anyone who knows much about Comanches. I won't deal with them, it would be a waste of my time. If an owner insists, I will help him/her find a shop that will work with Savvy. I know a number of other IA's that won't work with Savvy either. I am very transparent about what I am seeing on inspection and why I am recommending -- or insisting if it is an airworthiness item -- on a particular course of action.
 
Savvy seems to deal with Cirrus to a larger degree. I watch and listen to all of Mikes podcasts and EAA webinars, but haven’t signed up for any services. Haven’t felt the need - I have a great shop and no complaints with them.
 
I have their Analysis and their Breakdown (now included) services.

I think both offer good value for the money. Saving one cylinder pays with them.
 
Pinecone said:
I have their Analysis and their Breakdown (now included) services.

I think both offer good value for the money. Saving one cylinder pays with them.
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Yeah, they make it sound like you'll never have to buy a cylinder -- certainly never do a top overhaul -- if you just use them.

I was using them when I wound up buying 6 overhauled cylinders. The only thing they got me was a delay while we did the fiddling they wanted to do before giving up. I realize that, if they'd figured out something different, they would've "paid for themselves." But the fact is I looked at the initial situation and said, "I think I'm stuck -- gonna have to replace all 6," about a month and some amount of money before they said, "Well, sometimes your really do have to get a top overhaul."

Just the experience of SGOTI and YMMV, of course, but I felt like they didn't save me any money and I didn't even learn anything unusual.
 
Half Fast said:
A bit of thread drift, but I have to ask: how did all six go bad at the same time?
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Well, that is the question to be answered, isn't it. For whatever reason, that's how it appeared. I can't say for sure that they'd been properly evaluated in the past, but I know they were at the time we decided to replace them all.

And that's all I'm going to say, lest someone come along wanting more detail, so they can say "Dude, you didn't have to replace them all; you could've just blah, blah, blah."
 
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