Saving money

Clip4 said:
First thing is you need to convince yourself that educating owners is not your job. Simple stuff here. This is what you need, here is my price. No explanation, no convincing, have a good day.
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I charge $150 dollars an hour to educate others on how to efficiently fix their issues, I've been doing it for decades, all over this planet. Few have spent more than a couple of hours.

I charge zero for any part or repair I'm involved with, unless it's one I have collected over the years. Then I offer it at a reduced price, if I'm confident with it.

Generally it costs them a site more when they feel they need convincing.
 
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donjohnston said:
Finally finished the Velocity, moved to FL and sold the 182-RG. No more 400B for me. :D

Next time I'm in the area, I'll give you a call.
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I told you I want a ride in that!! Who got the 182?
 
Clip4 said:
First thing is you need to convince yourself that educating owners is not your job. Simple stuff here. This is what you need, here is my price. No explanation, no convincing, have a good day.
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After a bit of thought, I wonder what type of person would feel it was within their authority to even think of making a statement like this.
 
Bob Weber said:
After a bit of thought, I wonder what type of person would feel it was within their authority to even think of making a statement like this.
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You don’t need authority to make a statement like that. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. Cheap owners are cheap owners. Don’t waste your time on them.

it’s like the guy who comes to me for a flight review after not flying for 10 years and wants to know the cost.
 
JOhnH said:
James, you don't know WHO or WHAT you are talking about. Do you even know who Bob Weber is or anything about him?
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Never heard of him

Someone who couldn’t sell a used switch for $100?


Is he a big deal or something?

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James331 said:
Would you like to purchase my services lol
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I"m thinking it would be the other way around. If you have a tough AP problem, Bob could probably help you solve it for a lot less than it would cost you otherwise. I can't think of much you could do for Bob.

You are reminding me of the old saying: "It is better to keep you mouth closed and look like a fool, than to open it and prove it".
 
JOhnH said:
I"m thinking it would be the other way around. If you have a tough AP problem, Bob could probably help you solve it for a lot less than it would cost you otherwise. I can't think of much you could do for Bob.

You are reminding me of the old saying: "It is better to keep you mouth closed and look like a fool, than to open it and prove it".
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I've always been happy to offer some advice, and answer a question or two for anybody, if it gets deeper, I offer, what I feel is a fair price to help.

I have to say my patience grows a little thin when someone, with little knowledge, refuses to listen to the simple logic of troubleshooting.

These are the folks that tend to spend far more time, and money, chasing their tails, than solving their issues.

I also remember those who work with me, and I give them an extra measure of assistance..
 
Bob Weber said:
It amazes me how hard it is to save people money. I spent some time on the phone with a guy trying to help with a typical autopilot issue. I attempted to explain the common issues we saw in nearly every one of the installations.

Rather than listening to the advice and spending the $100 on an under priced switch, he beat on me for more info and got out bid on the switch.

The guy that bought the switch has my "pocket full of tools" as well now.

How can you justify mincing a $100 either way when your dealing with your life and those around you, in an aircraft you have well over $100,000 invested in?
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Indeed. Amazes me how hard some folks attempt to take someones money while purporting to help them save it.

Perhaps the first gentleman on Mooneyspace only wanted a part number for the switch, but could not help but politely listen, while unable to get a word in edgewise... Hardly fair claiming to be beaten up for more info when the gentleman mostly listened to unsolicited commentary from the alleged consultant. Also don't recall an auction. As once the unannounced consultant mentioned something about being paid for his time on subject, the call ended shortly thereafter with no offer on the switch, and no further communication, ...hardly a bidding situation.

The second guy, that bought the switch from said consultant spent $400 total (switch w/ no warranty $250 + $150 for one hour consulting time - unsure about warranty for consulting "pocket full of tools"). The first guy, that just asked for a part number, paid $60 for the same switch including shipping, got a new old stock switch still in original unopened package, with screws / washers, and full warranty. Then hired his company avionics shop to spend fifteen minutes installing the switch for $25, a total of $85. And didn't have to continue listening to the consultants fear mongering regarding various aircraft maintenance practices of previous "clients," or bashing of autopilot repair shops.

Had the consultant been more willing to listen, he would have learned that the first guy had been in the aviation business a very long time, currently manages a large global fleet of corporate and airline aircraft, been around the block a few times, and may have been interested in developing a business relationship. But of course, as the old saying goes, "it is quite difficult to learn anything while talking."

Pretty sure it's time to let this one go Bob. Take care and good luck.
 
Pepperjet said:
Indeed. Amazes me how hard some folks attempt to take someones money while purporting to help them save it.

Perhaps the first gentleman on Mooneyspace only wanted a part number for the switch, but could not help but politely listen, while unable to get a word in edgewise... Hardly fair claiming to be beaten up for more info when the gentleman mostly listened to unsolicited commentary from the alleged consultant. Also don't recall an auction. As once the unannounced consultant mentioned something about being paid for his time on subject, the call ended shortly thereafter with no offer on the switch, and no further communication, ...hardly a bidding situation.

The second guy, that bought the switch from said consultant spent $400 total (switch w/ no warranty $250 + $150 for one hour consulting time - unsure about warranty for consulting "pocket full of tools"). The first guy, that just asked for a part number, paid $60 for the same switch including shipping, got a new old stock switch still in original unopened package, with screws / washers, and full warranty. Then hired his company avionics shop to spend fifteen minutes installing the switch for $25, a total of $85. And didn't have to continue listening to the consultants fear mongering regarding various aircraft maintenance practices of previous "clients," or bashing of autopilot repair shops.

Had the consultant been more willing to listen, he would have learned that the first guy had been in the aviation business a very long time, currently manages a large global fleet of corporate and airline aircraft, been around the block a few times, and may have been interested in developing a business relationship. But of course, as the old saying goes, "it is quite difficult to learn anything while talking."

Pretty sure it's time to let this one go Bob. Take care and good luck.
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I would love to see the log entry for that one, did it fix his trim problem? God was it?
 
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Bob Weber said:
Generally, with a well placed voltmeter, you can save all kinds of time and money.

The trick also, is what I was trying to convey to the original guy, when you see a bug, stomp on it.

He had a switch with a classic failure he had been nursing along until he said another issue cropped up.

I gave him the opportunity to address the obviously failed switch, then evaluate the other issue.

The other option I mentioned was looking into it with a voltmeter, all the while explaining how I could guide him thru this and all of the very common things my experience has shown me with his particular airframe/autopilot combination.

When your dealing with an average of nine boxes, and a quarter mile of wiring, you wouldn't believe how much time and money you can save when your half way to the solution by approaching a familiar problem rather than a mystery..
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Well, stomping on the first bug is not exactly a surgical approach, but the point is generally taken.

By the way, contrary to your original thinking, replacing the switch also solved the other issue, as expected.

Word to the wise: Understand you want to sell your services. Perhaps instead of using "sales speak," try being up front about charging for your time, and patiently get to know who you're dealing with. Will more easily help draw in some business.
 
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Bob Weber said:
I would love to see the log entry for that one, did it fix his trim problem? God was it?
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Indeed it did, ...and God it was. An incredible sight to behold. Lol! Take care.
 
Pepperjet said:
Well, stomping on the first bug is not exactly a surgical approach, but the point is generally taken.

By the way, contrary to your original thinking, replacing the switch also solved the other issue, as expected.

Word to the wise: Understand you want to sell your services. Perhaps instead of using "sales speak," try being up front about charging for your time, and patiently get to know who your dealing with. Will more easily help draw in some business.
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still wondering about the log entry, funny, a 20,000 post guy is so bent up about a 1 post guys story on another site. I still think you have wiring issues, a volt meter goes a long way.
 
Thanks Doc You are correct, funny, I graduated high school in Glenwood Springs, used to ride my dirtbike around the grave...

This will lay to rest now.
 
Bob Weber said:
still wondering about the log entry, funny, a 20,000 post guy is so bent up about a 1 post guys story on another site. I still think you have wiring issues, a volt meter goes a long way.
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Log entry was just of replacing the inoperative switch. Mystery indeed, many employees to keep on the rails for sure, guessing similar to herding cats. Rare that I have time to contribute to, or follow forums. Perhaps not as much wiring issues as a dirty trim switch issue, perhaps a worn spring(s) as you may have previously mentioned. I'm with you, probably temporary luck the trim is now working fine after replacing the autopilot cut off / trim interrupt switch. Will monitor and clean or replace as needed. Volt meter...? Wish I knew how to use one. Lol! Kidding. But the old sparky guys in our radio shop are much more adept, and also can sign off on the work.

Have a good weekend Bob.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Edit:
I take that back (some of it).
I think replacing a $200 Honeywell pushbutton switch with a $10 Tyco pushbutton switch that fits in the hole and has at least as high a current rating should be a minor alteration. Sign off with a log book entry. Right? If not, why not?
So, why buy the Honeywell when there is no real reason?
So some sharp eye IA doesn't **** when he sees it some time down the road? Or, is it just that no one is willing to accept the fact that COTS parts are COTS parts?

(Obviously, I ain't no A&P)
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Believe it or not, there’s more to a switch than amperage rating and whether it fits the hole. Rated number of cycles, contact resistance, contact bounce, sealing against explosive atmosphere, enviro specs like vibration, shock, humidity, fungus growth,...
 
Half Fast said:
Believe it or not, there’s more to a switch than amperage rating and whether it fits the hole. Rated number of cycles, contact resistance, contact bounce, sealing against explosive atmosphere, enviro specs like vibration, shock, humidity, fungus growth,...
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Does the color clash with Your nail polish?
 
The only cheap repair I’ve been a part of was the repair of a KC290 mode controller compliments of Bob Weber. If I’m going to have a squawk, I hope it involves my KFC 200.
 
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